MAOI alternatives to B. caapi and P. harmala? + related question

[Shaal]

Hi

In my country both of these plants are banned (and the harmala alkaloids are banned too, which is pretty silly since some seem to be present in coffee and tobacco IIRC), I know of a few other plants that have MAOI activity (such as Passiflora incarnata, but the alkaloid content seems pretty small and depending on the moment of harvest IIRC), but does anyone know about the next best thing to B. caapi and P. harmala? What are your experiences with such alternative plants, if any? I guess it wouldn't be a problem if they contained harmala alkaloids, even if they are banned, for the reasons given above.

Oh yeah, and Banisteriopsis rusbyana is banned too... maybe other species of banisteriopsis would be good bets?

Thanks!

P.S.: By the way, I'm wondering, what if someone one day sues a company because they claim their product containing P. incarnata gave them some health issues... would the company be screwed because their product contains harmala akaloids, which are banned (the banned alkaloids are specifically: harmine, harmaline, tetrahydroharmine, harmol, and harmalol). That could give rise to pretty silly situations...

 

[Sir Ron Pib]

Not sure there are any really useful sources of harmalas outside of these. You could use moclobemide as an harmala alternative allowing oral DMT but it feels very different to harmine.

 

[bummer]

Can I ask where you're from and if you know why these plants were banned ?

 

[Shaal]

@Sir Ron Pib: thanks for your answer. I'm going to consider this, however, what I'm looking for preferably are all-natural MAOI alternatives. But it's interesting since it's reversible.

@Bummer: I'm from France, and I think these plants are banned because they wanted to ban everything that could allow you to make Ayahuasca. The law forbids, I quote "«Ayahusca» Banisteteriopis caapi, Peganum harmala, Psychotria viridis, Diplopterys cabrerana, Mimosa hostilis, Banisteriopsis rusbyana, harmine, harmaline, tétrahydroharmine (THH), harmol, harmalol ». Since 2005.

And I'm not looking only at DMT, I want to experiment with potentiation of other alkaloids as well. And not having to brew for example 500g of plant material to get sufficient MAO inhibition... But I guess I'm not gonna have the choice. Maybe growing and extracting P. incarnata (which is not banned although it appears to contain harmala alkaloids). Or combining different MAOI alkaloids from different plants. For example, "When the researchers combined curcumin with piperine, an alkaloid found in black pepper, they found this enhanced the effect of MAO inhibition" (Source: http://www.livestrong.com/article/82970-common-herbs-mao-inhibitor-activity).

 

[red22]

@Sir Ron Pib: thanks for your answer. I'm going to consider this, however, what I'm looking for preferably are all-natural MAOI alternatives. But it's interesting since it's reversible.

None dude, except possibly the harman and norharman in tobacco.


Working with mainstream smoke collected from commercial cigarettes we confirmed that cigarette smoke is a potent inhibitor of human MAO-A and -B isozymes.

Tomas Herraiz, Carolina Chaparro, Human monoamine oxidase is inhibited by tobacco smoke: β-carboline alkaloids act as potent and reversible inhibitors, Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications, Volume 326, Issue 2, 14 January 2005, Pages 378-386, ISSN 0006-291X, 10.1016/j.bbrc.2004.11.033.
(http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X04025999)


The correlation between the levels of the βCs norharman (inhibitor of MAO B) and harman (inhibitor of MAO A) in tobacco smoke and the proportion of the inhibited isoenzymes in the human brain measured by PET strongly support the notion that these two βCs are responsible for the inhibition of MAO A and B in human brain from smokers.

Hans Rommelspacher. Isoquinolines And Beta-Carbolines As Neurotoxins And Neuroprotectants. Current Topics in Neurotoxicity Volume 1, 2012, pp 115-124


Platelet MAO-B activity, plasma 3,4-dihydroxyphenylglycol, plasma 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid, and plasma 3,4-dihydroxyphenylalanine concentrations were significantly lower in smokers than in nonsmokers, whereas plasma norepinephrine did not differ.

Ivan Berlin, Sophie Said, Odile Spreux-Varoquaux, Robert Olivares, Jean-Marie Launay, Alain J. Puech. Monoamine oxidase A and B activities in heavy smokers. Biological Psychiatry. Volume 38, Issue 11 , Pages 756-761, 1 December 1995


Inhibitory activity towards monoamine oxidase has been found in a solution of cigarette smoke. The inhibition was irreversible. When tissue slices of rat lung were incubated in the cigarette smoke solution or alternatively, exposed directly to cigarette smoke, monoamine oxidase activities were reduced drastically. Similarly, human saliva after cigarette smoking also exhibits considerable MAO inhibitory activity.

Yu PH, Boulton AA. Irreversible inhibition of monoamine oxidase by some components of cigarette smoke. Life Sci. 1987 Aug 10;41(6):675-82.

I know of a few other plants that have MAOI activity (such as Passiflora incarnata, but the alkaloid content seems pretty small and depending on the moment of harvest IIRC),

Source?


And I'll post this because it's pertinent. Tech specs for harmine/harmaline:


Udenfriend S, Witkop B, Redfield B, Weissbach H. 1958. Studies with reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase: Harmaline and related compounds. Biochemical Pharmacology, 1(2):160-165. DOI:10.1016/0006-2952(58)90025-X

Buckholtz NS, Boggan WO. 1977. Monoamine oxidase inhibition in brain and liver produced by beta-carbolines: structure-activity relationships and substrate specificity. Biochemical Pharmacology, 26(21):1991-6. DOI:10.1016/0006-2952(77)90007-7


Download both documents here. Thanks to http://libgen.org

 

[Shaal]

Thanks man for you thorough answer, I'll have a serious look at this when I got the time and then I'll reply here (I have something urgent to finish).About the source, I don't remember exactly, it was something like wikipedia and/or websites such as livestrong or something. I'll have to search again.

 

[Shaal]

Sorry about the double post (proxy), here is already the source for the "other plants" I was talking about: http://www.botanical-online.com/english/vegetalmaois.htm