Lsz chemical relation to lsd

[Torresmo]

Dear friends,
I was thinking about the possibility of buying some lsz, but i am unsure if its legal or not here.
The law prohibits LSD(among others) and all its salts, isomers and esters - if its existence is possible.
My doubt is: can LSZ (or AL-lad) be considered a salt, ester or isomer of LSD?

I read a judicial decision about one guy who was importing GBL as a "wheel cleaner"(haha). GBL is not explicitly prohibited, but the law prohibit GHB and its esters. The judge convicted the poor guy to 5 years in prision, because (he said) GBL is an ester of GHB....

So that should explain my concern... My knowledge in chemistry is quite poor, so I realize this could be a dumb question...
Can LSZ or AL-LAD be related to LSD, other than being analogs (I dont even know what an analog is)?

 

[Jesusgreen]

We don't allow legal questions here at Bluelight but I think your thread just about skirts the lines, it's not a salt or isomer of LSD, or an ester, but as for whether analogue laws could cause concerns it really depends on what country you're in, and that goes into the legal discussion territory which we can't really help you with since not many people here are qualified to give you advice that we can guarantee won't get you into trouble with the law.

 

[Torresmo]

I understand. I am not asking for legal advice, I am able to interpret my country's laws, most times.
The problem is this one uses technical terms such as those I cited, so my doubts are about chemistry only.

Is gbl really an ester of ghb? What does this mean?
And what does it mean to say one substance is an analog of another?

 

[Solipsis]

GBL is a lactone which is a cyclic ester. So it's not a typical ester but a special kind, but still - it is technically an ester.

What it means: an ester is a chemical which in it's structure has a few atoms in a particular pattern, namely the ester group.

It's shown like this:

The R and R' are variable. So this -O-C=O part is the actual ester group. GBL is a chemical that has a structure that contains it. Also GBL is said to be an ester of GHB because GBL is basically what you get if you take GHB and make GHB's "head" part react with it's "tail". It becomes a ring structure, namely the lactone GBL. You can also go the other way and cut open the GBL ring to get GHB again. They are closely related which is the whole point.

It can be relevant to other compounds that have alcohol groups (you can check by seeing if there is any -OH group on a chemical structure, which is a hydroxy or -O-H atoms linked), because you can put ester groups onto those hydroxy's and it kinda changes the chemical but not a whole lot. Also, that ester group tends to fall of in the human body, so an ester of a drug is often a pro-drug: a drug that acts as a precursor to an active drug (tho the pro-drug can have effects of its own).

An example is psilocin, also called 4-HO-DMT. If you put an acetoxy ester on that it becomes 4-AcO-DMT, a well known drug that unlike psilocin is not illegal for the most part afaik. Again, the point is that making an ester of a drug is a relatively easy way to turn an illegal drug into another drug that may not be illegal, while having mostly the same effects.

LSD has no OH groups that you can put esters on, let alone the possibility of cyclizing LSD into a lactone ring. LSZ is a modified analogue of LSD that is modified in a way that is considerably more complicated than an 'added ester'. It's also not an isomer or salt of LSD. There is really just a different functional group, you cannot reduce that fact to call it a basic modification.

I'm trying not to draw conclusions and to ignore your legal questions, but you wanted to know about the meanings behind those legal arguments and I'm giving you some theory.

 

[Torresmo]

Hey, thank you for the patience! Just after I made the question I realised how vague it was.
However you explained it so concisely that I understood what you said. I know you simplified things a lot, but I can see what you mean...
I also realised I must study at least some basic chemistry to know what I am doing while buying RCs.
~ 4 years ago I almost bought this same wheel cleaner that guy was caught with, just because there wasn't GBL listed on the law.
That scared me... jesus, 5 years...

 

[Solipsis]

It matters a lot in which country you are I guess. The down under continents can be pretty damn harsh from what I know, the guilty until proven innocent element is not pretty. And yeah G is often purchased in a quantity which is considered serious volume even though it is relatively normal to order for people who get it for personal use. Courts don't see it that way, and that is a shitty thing to have to explain.

GBL got banned here I think, not that long after I suddenly decided to quit involving myself in GBL / GHB use on one january 1st. It can be scary and addictive and I'm glad I'm done with it.

Anyway my point is that yes I agree this legal stuff is controversial and if you are in a harsh country, obviously be careful. Bluelight can't really help with any of this beyond this point as JG explained but good luck and I hope you are able to enjoy some old fashion recreational drug use, and just decide what you want to put into your own body.