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Loss of magic from classical psychedelics?

bindingaffinity

bindingaffinity

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
150
I first started using classical psychs 6 years ago, and at the peak of my heaviest use was using them once a month. I'm coming off a >2 year long break from all psychoactives other than alcohol, mirtazapine (very small dose for sleep) and my regularly prescribed fluoxetine. I recently started using them again. I still get cool visuals, enhancement of music, and a neat body high, but I have almost no mental or emotional effects, other than a slight mood lift and a reduced attention span. They feel very clearheaded and sober, unlike I remember them from years ago, even in doses (3 mg DOC recently, 8 mg 5-MeO-MiPT less recently) that would have gotten me tripping quite hard in the past. I greatly miss the altered thought patterns, feelings of insight, altered time perception, connection with the universe, etc., even if they were illusory or temporary. Is there anything I can do to bring those back?

The only idea I have is to stop fluoxetine and wait for it to wash completely out of my body, but I'm not convinced that will work. (For the record, I'm not worried about the mental health effects of stopping fluoxetine, since I'm emotionally stable at the moment. It might even be good for my mental health since I've been feeling disconnected from my emotions, but that's another topic for another time.)
 
I wouldn't suggest stopping the Fluoxetine. Usually the effect of an SSRI can be compensated for by simply taking a higher dose of psychedelics.

Mirtazapine could be more of a problem since it's a 5HT2A antagonist, i.e. it blocks the very receptors the psychedelic is supposed to activate. Again, you might be able to compensate for this to some degree by taking a higher dose of psychedelics.

Also, aren't DOC and 5-MeO-MiPT generally more on the visual/stimulating side? If you're looking for a more intense headspace, shrooms/4-AcO-DMT or (1A/1P-)LSD might be more up your alley.
 
Yeah, psychs doesn´t have that long lasting tolerance. It really seems to be the mirtazapine/fluoxetine interferencing. I don´t think is a question of raising the psych dose(not good idea), but the very nature of the modulation of all that compounds with the psychs.

Advising to stop them or to taper down is beyond the scope of this forum. Just meditate about it and do the wisest
 
Part of the magic is youth and the first exposure.

This magic is not going to return when you go through the same gate, some try to up the dose, but that goes through a different gate, so eventually that opportunity is a fail as well.

Adjusting set and setting can change the destination, but the first time is and always will be special. that is the mystery and curse of virginity, you do not get that back.

Life is full of magic, however, but you need to become a more astute hunter, and you have to rely less upon drugs to be that. If you are generally interested in the small things in life, then each session with psychedelics will be enchanting.

the rules for this are not the same rules as economics - eg, to go to Disneyland, you pay admission and follow the crowd to rides and views, it's easy, & get what you pay for, and if you don't you complain and get refunded.
this is more like Alice in Wonderland - you move by standing still, and you encounter monsters by running away from them, you are what you do, and no guarantees.
 
Yeah agreed, that the most intense magic from when you start can never be replicated, because it was something profoundly NEW and different. However, your rate of usage coupled with your 2 year break should bring the magic back as much as it can. Mirtazepine certainly will reduce the effects of psychedelics, and SSRIs reduce them for most people too. I'm nearly certain it's primarily because of your medications.

I've been using psychedelics for 16 years. I abused them heavily in 2006-2007, up to 5 times a week (usually 2 or 3 though), and it took a few years of not using them at all for me to get the magic back, but I have great trips again. Not as intense and otherworldly as when I was younger, but I've already been there. These days I am looking for, and hence, I find, different things in the experience, but they're just as valuable to me.
 
Thanks all for the advice. I actually stopped the mirtazapine a couple weeks ago and have been doing great having replaced it with zolpidem; I may talk to my psych soon to see whether stopping fluoxetine is a good idea, and if it is, I'll go ahead and do that, and not touch classical psychs until the washout period is done. I'll also look towards acquiring some different materials like LSD and 4-AcO-DMT, to see if they'll affect me differently. Nothing's going to be like my first time again (you can't step into the same river once) but I'm hopeful that I can rekindle a bit of magic.
 
Sorry but zolpidem is a terrible idea in the long run because it is addictive similar to benzos. Compared to some of those a bit more selective but the addiction can be 'selective' too which is still pretty shitty considering benzo dependency is hell beyond opiates.
Discussing tapering and stopping SSRI's before you proceed doing so is smart, but yeah don't be on that longer than you need to be. Other things than wanting to trip should probably prompt people to consider stopping, it is astonishing to me when it is just something people have gotten used to as normal.

In my experience there is enough magic to be rediscovered, though I have had a couple of years taking a break from tripping. Part of the 'magic' story is also about expectations... sure be smart about it but also try to wipe your expectations when the time has come, can make you open to more novelty in ways you weren't even considering. Magic is probably when novelty and love have a baby.
 
It's crazy how long I've been on SSRIs. I took a break a couple years ago and my head felt so clear... for a while. There are some prescriptions (for genuine somatic problems) that I'm going to be on for the rest of my life, but reducing my pharmaceutical burden by one should be a good thing. I've started a taper and when I see my psych again, I'll talk to her about the zolpidem. Is there a substantial risk in using it for like 2 months total?
 
Zolpidem is pretty strange in terms of its addiction liability. Some users (even those who enjoy "true" benzos) don't find it recreational at all, while others (including yours truly) find it *very* euphoric/recreational, especially if they experience hallucinogenic effects when taking it while severely sleep-deprived.

At any rate, it affects the GABA receptors, and as such should not be used for extended periods of time. The short half-life generally makes it unlikely for someone to suffer physiological dependence to the extent of someone using a more long-lasting benzo to sleep, but it also means you might suffer from rebound insomnia, where you would wake up in the middle of the night and have to re-dose, or be switched to the more long-lasting and "benzo-like" Zopiclone (or a real benzo like Nitrazepam or Temazepam, which are generally considered to be among the most recreational due to their strong hypnotic effects).

So yeah, keep the Zolpidem dose as low as possible, and maybe try replacing or at least supplementing it with melatonin and/or L-theanine.
 
Here are a few other threads that I've found helpful:
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/832904-4HO-Mipt-need-90-mg-to-trip-correctly-(Tolerence)
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...ess-recreational-the-more-experience-you-have
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/833455-ALD-52-need-help-to-maximize-experience

I've completed my SSRI taper a couple weeks ago, and the last time I took any psychs was 2.5 weeks ago. I'm also tapering off zolpidem (most nights just using boredom, melatonin, or both). I have a few follow up thoughts and questions about planning the next trip:

- targeting 1.5 months from now; should I wait longer?
- planning for a different setting, outdoors in nature preferably
- considering taking 1-substituted lysergamides or psilacetin for the next trip; however I have very little experience with them in general
- any HR advice for taking a new substance in a new setting?

There's also a lot of good general life advice in this thread, and the threads I linked at the top, that I've been pondering. Getting out of old patterns, rekindling my interests, and finding the magic in everyday life is sometimes hard due to my general attitude of complacency but I am on my way there.
 
bindingaffinity said:
Here are a few other threads that I've found helpful:
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/832904-4HO-Mipt-need-90-mg-to-trip-correctly-(Tolerence)
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...ess-recreational-the-more-experience-you-have
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/833455-ALD-52-need-help-to-maximize-experience

I've completed my SSRI taper a couple weeks ago, and the last time I took any psychs was 2.5 weeks ago. I'm also tapering off zolpidem (most nights just using boredom, melatonin, or both). I have a few follow up thoughts and questions about planning the next trip:

- targeting 1.5 months from now; should I wait longer?
- planning for a different setting, outdoors in nature preferably
- considering taking 1-substituted lysergamides or psilacetin for the next trip; however I have very little experience with them in general
- any HR advice for taking a new substance in a new setting?

There's also a lot of good general life advice in this thread, and the threads I linked at the top, that I've been pondering. Getting out of old patterns, rekindling my interests, and finding the magic in everyday life is sometimes hard due to my general attitude of complacency but I am on my way there.
Click to expand...

I think you're on the right path, bindingaffinity! ;)

By the way, I like your location, NMDA-type glutamate receptor allosteric binding site! :D
 
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