Looking for advice for further MDMA use

[Ragbout]

I recently took ecstasy for my first time, at a rave. Long story short, met some new people, they were going to take MDMA and I joined them. I was(am) very uninformed regarding MDMA (and drugs in general...) : while the experience was amazing, I do regret not having prepared and read up beforehand.
So here I am.

I suppose what I'm looking for is criticism and advice on what I did and should do in the future, as far as harm reduction goes. I have read the stickied threads and the "Essential Guide" on bluelight, as well as some other (somewhat less reliable) pages, but there are still some questions. This will be a bit anecdotal I'm afraid...

In my new friends' defense, they did tell me to drink lots of water and not touch any other drugs, since it was my first time. Some of them took LSD and chloroform, but I frankly have no interest in those, as of now at least. After reading up, I realize how little they themselves knew though...

I decided to take ecstasy because I promised a certain person I would not drink any alcohol. Not sure whether or not it is less harmful, but it certainly feels better than alcohol during and afterwards, without all the unpleasant forgetfulness and loss of motor and cognitive skills.

The first pill I bought was very cheap, and after 1 and a half to two hours with still no noticeable effect (perhaps it was starting to take effect and I didn't notice... didn't no what to expect), I took another, more expensive one. About 5 to 10 minutes later the first pill "hit" (I'm not sure what the term is in English for when the high kicks in)--the super-happy, no-worries feeling; the energy and desire to keep moving; the numbness, and lightness; as well as sweating a whole lot, no bathroom breaks, and grinding teeth. No visual effects, as far as noticed, did not feel very hot, pupils were very dilated, and I started treating my new friends as very old friends, with lots of body contact, jokes and mockery.
After some time, maybe 1 hour later, what I think was the second pill took effect, and I felt all of this again more intensely. Maybe it was just my impression, or the music that changed, but I don't think so. About this time, my throat started to feel sore, and I started to drink more water. I drank not-so regularly for the rest of the night, and my throat got progressively worse. It's quite painful even now.

Some time later--I don't have very much idea of how long it was to be honest, maybe 2 hours? probably less-- I started to come down, and immediately bought another pill, thinking that the effect of the first was over. My friend told me to dissolve it in water, and sip the water, so that the effects last longer(?). So I did, and this peak was even higher than the previous.

I took half of another pill after about another 2 hours, which was a very big mistake, as I left soon after and couldn't sleep at all when I got home.
I drank maybe 7 bottles of water in 8 or so hours--about 3.5L. This is about right no?

Got home, drank a ton of water, tried to sleep, couldn't. Once I did fall asleep, I got up regularly to go to the restroom. Woke up four hours later, having slept terribly, but not tired at all, pupils still dilated. No hangover or depression, but I suppose that might come later. This is about 12 hours after waking up.

And that's about it.

I already ordered a testing kit, since I do plan on eventually taking it again, and took some vitamin C, as suggested by some threads to reduce neurotoxicity (are there any other similar options?). I have no idea on how much it is I took (way too much is my guess), but was wondering if the sore throat might be because of taking too much. Also, are there any serious problems with taking larger-than-recommended doses? I read somewhere that you need to take ridiculous doses (dozens of pills) to run serious death risks or suffer serious long term effects, but it's the internet... I'm under the impression that the effects of the pill match those that would be expected; I'm aware that there's no way to be sure without a testing kit, but is it reasonable to assume that the pills were (mostly) MDMA?

Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance!

-Ragbout

 

[terarc]

Seeing as you've only done this once, I think you'll be fine. Unless you start noticing negative after effects that persist for at least a few weeks, in which case do not use MDMA again until you've been feeling fine for at least around 3-4 times the amount of time you had the negative effects (so if you felt off for 2 months, stay sober for a further 6-8 months after that).

But yeah, don't dose again like that, it greatly increases the dangers both immediate and long term of MDMA and just as great an experience (or better) can be had with a sensible dosing/redosing schedule.

Firstly, buy some test kits. Secondly, take at least 6-12 weeks off MDMA before considering dosing again. Then, next time find out the doses in the pills or buy crystal MDMA, and dose about 2 mg of MDMA per kg of body weight. If you want to redose, take half of what you took for your initial dose around 1-2 hours after you drop the first one. So if you were 70kg, you'd take 140mg, then 1-2 hours later, take another 70mg. This is only a guideline though and it'll probably take some experimentation until you find your 'sweet spot' dose.

After that, it's important to spread your MDMA experiences out in order to not 'lose the magic' (get such a high tolerance that MDMA loses what makes it so great for you). It's recommended to take at least 6 weeks but preferably 3 months or more between doses. Personally I do it once per year.

There are certain supplements that have some evidence or at least theory to support that they may help reduce neurotoxicity, side effects, after effects and tolerance to MDMA. Some of these are taken before, some during, and some after an MDMA experience. You can find out more at rollsafe.org

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

Few things to add and remember alongside the good advice given.
1. 2 hrs minimum before you ever consider redose while waiting for the come up. If you eat prior or the pill is hard to crush likely it will take longer to work. Really you should wait 3 hrs to be sure. If you take PMMA /PMA adulterated or laced pills then they will take longer to come up and the dosage curve can be very fine between feeling just ill and being in a & e.

Taking multiple pills because they don't appear to work. Time to write off the night and just enjoy the music rather than put yourself at risk. It's common that serious injury occurs from new inexperienced users who don't allow what they have taken to work and redose to soon. A number of recent UK deaths are attributed to inexperienced and sadly very young users taking 3 or 4 pills of differing kinds thinking they will get higher, they are not working or that they are weak.

2. Don't ever buy or take what you haven't personally tested. Club / rave buys same night drop you should make a no no rule. Pressure from friends to take something is not reason to take a risk. The person selling pills in the rave is there to make money.

3. Don't mix pills stay with the same type. Although pill batches vary and you can get copies it's much safer sticking to one type. Taking an adulterant then a good one can often increase effects of the adulterated.

4. Initial drop followed by 1/2 of the initial drop when you feel a good onset is usually a hard and fast rule. After the initial drop later drops are invariably more amphetamine high as your brain runs out of seratonin. You only have so much stored once you use it then you simply won't get the euphoria just the energy and clearly why you couldn't sleep. From personal experience chasing the initial buzz by dropping more never delivers it just makes the comedown longer.

5. dont do combination drugs with MD until you have first experienced and know what to expect. You did absolutely the right thing by declining.

Sore throat - usually from shouting over the music to talk, dry ice gets mine, cigarettes or onset of a cold maybe. Also phsycologically your brain will be analysing any change in state and possible over analysis IE I've got a sore throat, I doing pills = must be that.

Sounds like a typical MD experience but you certainly went hard for your first time at 3.5. Average pill contents very difficult to judge but generally an effective dose, where you get full onset (note you did off that first pill) starts around 60 - 80mg so that puts you in the region of 210 - 240mg minimum. Not astronomical but probably more than you needed for your first time.

Enjoy and stay safe

 

[BlueBull]

Well first of all, and because you are new to the drug this time it worked, redosing after the effects have gone is generally not efficiënt (as in: you hardly feel anything) and in my opinion it is very unhealthy as well. Your brain needs time to replenish serotonin stores, you're exhausting an already exhausted system even further. Also, good that you ordered a testkit! That is a very wise thing to do. Another piece of advice is to look up your pills on pillreports. If you're lucky, your pills are known and someone already wrote an experience report, possibly giving you an indication of dose, purity,... it should be used only as a guideline though, anyone can write anything they want on there. If you need some help interpreting the results of your tests with the testkit, either post in the pillreports Q&A part of the forum or you can also send me a message if you'd like, I can probably help

The biggest concern I have is mixing untested pills, like Itsgoneundertheboa pointed out already. This might not seem dangerous, but let me explain. There are chemicals out there that are very dangerous to take, sold as MDMA. Some of these only start to work after 2-3 hours (thinking of PMA/PMMA here) and furthermore are extremely extremely (yes, twice extremely) dangerous to combine with real MDMA, they can kill on their own, but mixed with real MDMA in a good dose you would almost certainly not survive. So, you take such a pill, and an hour later you think "hey, it's not working", so you take a different one, an MDMA pill this time, and 1-2 hours later the PMA/PMMA kicks in with the MDMA. You really want to avoid this, that's how people end up as a statistic. And that is why you should NEVER mix different untested pills. And also even why you should NEVER take more of the same untested batch if one pill doesn't do it, if it's a PMA pill you've just taken a double dose that will kick in after a few hours. If it's an MDMA pill, they are so weak it's not worth it to take a second, either way you lose. Even tested pills I'm hesitant to mix

The sore throat can be from shouting indeed, from neck tension, from not drinking enough (dried out and little fissures formed on the walls) or it could be that you developed an infection. Over the years I noticed that it is very common for people doing MDMA to get a throat infection afterwards. It's scientifically proven that MDMA has a potent dampening effect on your immune system and it appears throat infections are the most common consequence judging from personal experience and the scores of people I've talked to both irl and online that had the same

Lastly, that first pill took 1.5-2h to kick in. That's not unheard of, if you've eaten a lot, the pill is very hard pressed so doesn't dissolve easily or something. But 1.5h-2h is exceptionally long though. Before you take anything else, wait for your testkit and test your stuff. If you still have some of those first pills left, test them too, I think you will be surprised

I think you should start by reading this sticky, if you haven't already. It sums up the most basic 'rules' you should follow if you want to keep your rolls and the time in between enjoyable.

Welcome to the forum :D any further questions, shoot! Sorry for the wall of text, this appears to be good weed I have here

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

@blue bull. the guide is really good but maybe an idea on the guide to add a section on pill form MDMA and why not to take multiple variants together IE what to do if no effect or slow effect.

UK has been prolific this year and last with young users taking multiples after first pill type not working or dropping 3 / 4 within a couple of hours thinking they are low strength or having eaten to then get into trouble. pills are certainly a lot harder pressed these days especially the Dutch high strength.

19 yr old died at a festival this year after taking 3 different types of pills in short period, his mate who did same was in coma. Most probably high 200 mg and or PMMA / PMA RC interaction.

Alas LE never release toxicology results so we never know if PMA / PMMA interactions where present and as usual they get put down in statistics as MD overdose or allergy reaction.

We can't get our governments to think sensibly about harm reduction, but at least we can try to inform users of all the risks and how to try and be safe on here.