Longterm success coming off of methadone/all opiates

[joeybrooklyn]

I've been on about 80mg MMT for 4 years on and off after a severe IV Heroin adddiction. My stories way more complicated but thats it in a nutshell, ive tapered down to a 60ish mg dose currently. I am and feel ready in my life to take a plunge into true sobriety, i,e; no opiates. the reason being i want to start a family. I cant seem to find any successfull longterm detox storys from methadone. I suppose my question is, is it worth it ? is it possible to detox and get to a reasonable stable place in my brain and body eventually ? or am i forever going to be stuck in that state of limbo which is post opiates? is it better to taper to a lower dose and simply remain there for life? longest ive been truely opaite free was roughly 100 days between one of my relapses and i simply wasnt ready. Im 30y.o , almost a decade of hard on and off opiate use. is there even a chance of success in this situati0n ? any and all input would be lovely. ill answer any relevant questions.

P.s. sorrry if my grammar or post edicate is off, this is my first post.

Joe Joe From Brooklyn

 

[neversickanymore]

Welcome to BL! @joeybrooklyn

So worth it. I'm over a decade this past November. Jumped at 40mgpd methadone, 260mgpd Roxy and a week later jumped from a one week taper of 4mgpd alprazolam.

The thing with long term opiate or benzodiazepines use is it really and completely doesn't work. Because of the resultant tolerance/adjustments our systems make because of the constant presence of the drugs we often end up experiencing much greater suffering from the conditions we were trying to find relief from in the first place. The medications often fool us as they still feel like they are working because they still bring us from a undesirable state to a more pleasant place, but after long term use our system has attempted to return to its normal pre use baseline while the medication is on board. This both causes our tolerance and also makes our experience of the unpleasant symptoms we have been treating much worse then they would be without ever treating ourselves with chronically for a long time. But still when we take the medication we feel better and it provides relief. The problem is that we likely are finding relief from symptoms the long term use has greatly exacerbated. I believe its the same with benzodiazepines.. you rarely see someone with more anxiety then a long term chronic benzodiazepine user.

Comprehensive Review of Opiate Induced Hyperalgesia
https://www.painphysicianjournal.com/current/pdf?article=MTQ0Ng==&journal=60

This phenomenon is also true for the desired effects and off label conditions "recreational" users and addicts achieved and treated. After years of chronic use of opiates and benzos I was taking huge doses just to try and feel normal, ok or even acceptably crappy. Then you have life and soul dulling side effects that have creeped in and have been hanging around that they are just a new normal. The meds and addictive drugs are never enough in the end. I was taking all the shit drugs, dealing with all the hassles, paying all the prices, spending that time doing all the little bullshit required to make sure I always had my slave master on board, the crap side effects, ALWAYS out at the end of the month. Late stage opiate dependence is awful, and its just the same shit stuck on repeat. And for what to feel better 5% of the time then I feel 95% of the time now while feeling so much worse the other 95% of the time.

You can certainly do this.. if I did it anyone can!! I'd consider working on and developing a really strong recovery plan thats comprised of simple easily acomplshed goals.

First on the list is don't die in recovery!! If you end up using its not what you want, but its certainly not the end of the world.. fuck it it happened.. don't beat yourself up.. just smile and dust yourself off and look at your strong recovery plan comprised of as many simple parts as you want/need and identify what lead to the use and what needs to be adjusted or tweaked so that situation that resulted in use won't be an issue moving forward. To be able to smile and dust yourself off you need to be alive!! So if you slip remember your tolerance is going to be nonexistent so you need to promise yourself that if you stumble you are going to remember that your system is right were you wan't to be... that of a complete novice and anything close to an old days dose will OD you. I know you know what your doing.. so did my long term Friend and he was making monumental progress at digging out of the ridiculous hole that only a 15 year habit makes you dig. He slipped and fatally OD on his dose. RIP.

Given the length of your use I would certainly consider getting both your vitamin D and Testosterone levels checked. Deficiencies in both of these are really common in long term opiate users and especially those on methadone and sub replacement therapy. Both of these conditions can come with significant symptoms that almost assuredly will make your journey out through acute and precipitated withdraw more unpleasant.

Methadone side effects, separating fact and fiction.

Low vitamin d status of patients in methadone maintenance treatment.

Methadone

http://books.google.com/books?id=qRShAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=dextrorotatory+methadone&source=bl&ots=f29eDUIUZM&sig=tKZcA47_3_Q4CncuwPU8jYECB18&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-qi9U_ThJMuqyAS_4IK4Bg&ved=0CFQQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=dextrorotatory methadone&f=false

Neuropathic Pain: Causes, Management and Understanding

Hypogonadism and Low Testosterone Levels as a Side Effect of Methadone and Buprenorphine
Hypogonadism in men receiving methadone and buprenorphine maintenance treatment.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17971165

Long-term Opioids Linked to Hypogonadism and the Role of Testosterone Supplementation Therapy

Opioids play a pivotal role in managing chronic pain with increasing prescription rates over the last few years. Hence, it is crucial to focus on the adverse effects of narcotics, and one of the lesser-known side effects is hypogonadism. Opioids ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Health Outcomes Among Opioid Users With Testosterone Prescription in the VHA

This cohort study analyzes the association between testosterone and opioid use and improved health outcomes among male US military veterans with opioid-induced androgen deficiency.

jamanetwork.com

Chronic opiate use and testosterone therapy

So I would take your time and come up with two strong plans. First for getting through the acute withdraw and the second to treat any paws and psychological addiction that you may face after your through the first tunnel.

Hey you got this and your a just a bit from FREEDOM. Takes a little bit to wander on out of hell, but working your way through there is temporary. You will get through there with a push or two. You already escaped once.. nice work by the way!!

Trick is get those plans all worked up for the trip through the flames, but also for when you push through.. as finding ourselves back once again looking at another fucking push out is fkn beat, so throwing down a strong plan to prevent the wretched...

NSFW:

 

[WorldOnFire]

I've been on about 80mg MMT for 4 years on and off after a severe IV Heroin adddiction. My stories way more complicated but thats it in a nutshell, ive tapered down to a 60ish mg dose currently. I am and feel ready in my life to take a plunge into true sobriety, i,e; no opiates. the reason being i want to start a family. I cant seem to find any successfull longterm detox storys from methadone. I suppose my question is, is it worth it ? is it possible to detox and get to a reasonable stable place in my brain and body eventually ? or am i forever going to be stuck in that state of limbo which is post opiates? is it better to taper to a lower dose and simply remain there for life? longest ive been truely opaite free was roughly 100 days between one of my relapses and i simply wasnt ready. Im 30y.o , almost a decade of hard on and off opiate use. is there even a chance of success in this situati0n ? any and all input would be lovely. ill answer any relevant questions.

P.s. sorrry if my grammar or post edicate is off, this is my first post.

Joe Joe From Brooklyn

My history approx six year fairly steady opiate (oral) up to 1000mg/day. Been through a few detox withdrawls that I simply did by ridding my life of any pills and then hitting cold turkey at home on my own. Ive intentionally recently cut my supply source permanently and im on day 12 of stopping dead a 1200mg/day. Is it worth it? Well the longest I went drug free was last summer managed 3 months but didn't cut my supply connections and thought id treat myself for doing so well.......you know the rest.

Honestly that three month period of my life was the happiest I have felt in years. I started going to the gym stopped boozing really turned my life around. The hardest thing for me was obviously the living hell of cold turkey, which I think for methadone will last longer than for shorter acting opiates, but actually after that was the incredible loss of energy and motivation I felt. I found the best way to beat this was engaging in physical activity/exercise which is absolutely the last thing you feel like doing. Slowly your body will begin to produce endogenous neurotransmitters, dopamine & serotonin, sex hormones ect. It will take a while but it will happen and slowly you will return to being a 'normal' human a little better every day.

The benefits? Well you could remain on MMT but if you choose not to...

You will live your life without a chemical crutch and the anxiety and restraint that comes with this
You will FEEL things that you simply don't when on maintainance opiates. The MMT is stopping you getting sick but thats all - bet you've not had an endorphin rush in a while.
You will gain REAL enjoyment from the things in life you enjoy. (Once the ashen wasteland has abated)
You will have motivation to do things to improve your life and other peoples life
Your sex hormones and libido will improve - this may help if considering a family
You will feel proud succeeding where many have failed - this improves your self image
Probably many other benefits but these are the main ones for me - your experience may of course be different.

Some practical tips on detox
1) If you have been tapering your MMT successfully then continue to do this at the rate you have been succeeding with - this may seem obvious. Personally I never had any joy with tapering, I think im a shot to the head rather than a gut wound sort of person - id rather have agony for a short time than prolonged mild symptoms but thats me. If tapering is working for you I would stick with it.

2) Do this before having a family - small children are a challenge during detox and your partner won't thank you for being a completely useless parent for two weeks. Also make sure you have enough time off work especially if you do physical work I would suggest 2 weeks minimum may longer off methadone.

3) Keep up fluids during first week - this is real important as you could dehydrate to the point of renal failure with sweats and GI symptoms. Dehydration is the only real danger of opiate withdrawl. Use electrolyte replacement drinks like for exercise at the gym. Don't worry about food I would eat when you feel like eating. I think I ate on around day 6 or 7.

4) Week 1 will be a physical and mental disaster zone but persevere things will get better. It will help if you have an understanding and caring person to come and see you, bring you drinks, tell you all will be fine ect.

5) The state of limbo you describe I believe to be a mixture of PAWS and real life hitting you in the face. Both will improve with time and hard work. As im sure you know life is a hard game and you'll still have darker days its just that over time your ability to deal with shit will improve.

6) To kill PAWS dead get in the gym, run, chop a two storey log pile, whatever gets you sweating and heart pumping even though you don't feel like it make yourself do it. As I said this is what worked for me and led me into a sub 30 5k only a few months ago

Hope my words help sorry if parts of my story you know already

Good luck