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Harm Reduction Lithium orotate to self treat Bipolar disorder

Juicewrldfan

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 10, 2022
Messages
1,305
So someone turned me onto this formulation here and I wanted to ask if anyone has experience treating their mania with it or has knowledge about the safety of doing this?

Reddit is a mess and I get different answers. “It builds up in the body to toxic levels” “It’s lack of safety is blown out of proportion”

And then dosing. I heard as low as 1mg. That doesn’t sound right. I know it’s a different form but is it that much stronger than the original lithium salts. I know this is a salt too. I mean the original.

Idk about self treating but seems like drs just don’t know shit to my liking.
 
The doses required to treat type 1 bipolar are rather high, so for it to be effective you'd have to take a good amount of the orotate salt. It's usually sold in small doses, 20mg or less usually so you'd have to take quite abit to produce therapeutic effects strong enough to treat true bipolar disorder. At those types of doses you're better of with a prescription of lithium carbonate and regular monitoring off lithium blood levels due to inherent toxicity of lithium.

Low doses of supplement grade lithium orotate are best for mild depression and mood instability, but are not geared for psychiatric disorders. 5mg a few times a day won't hurt you though, but it's not gonna do much for severe bipolar disorder.
 
I am on highly supervised lithium carbonate. If I were You I would not mess with lithium. An alkali-metal made into salt form. It is heavy on the body especially the kidney and thyroids. I am on a one month check-up period. Serum level kidney function an thyroid panel. All is fine after a decade my levels are a bit high or were last time so lover dose was adjusted till the next tests. My poor kidneys are not so happy with the lithium… But the values are still acceptable.

Do not go on lithium without supervision I beg You that one is not something to mess with.
 
I am on highly supervised lithium carbonate. If I were You I would not mess with lithium. An alkali-metal made into salt form. It is heavy on the body especially the kidney and thyroids. I am on a one month check-up period. Serum level kidney function an thyroid panel. All is fine after a decade my levels are a bit high or were last time so lover dose was adjusted till the next tests. My poor kidneys are not so happy with the lithium… But the values are still acceptable.

Do not go on lithium without supervision I beg You that one is not something to mess with.
I’m not going on it at all now. That was my fear is that it’s hard on the organs. My wife dad died from kidney failire and he took lithium for 30 years…

Guess I’ll be looking at lamictal. Why do t you like APs? Abilify seems to work well for me. I just started meds a few weeks ago but they didn’t settle me on a mood stabilizer yet.
 
Lithium might have its uses for example in bipolar disorder, but as others have said, it is very dangerous and requires regular professional monitoring. online, people have been spreading unverified ideas about lithium being some sort of magical mineral that we can all benefit from despite the fact life has no confirmed need for this element.
The pharmacology of lithium, particularly its blockade of GSK3Beta is exactly how it achieves its anti-manic effect. yes, lithium does help some with bipolar depression, but it’s not very effective in that regard and is instead far stronger in suppressing mania. GSK3 inhibition has grasped the interest of many researchers and it’s almost always presented as a good thing, some sort of cure for every CNS disease imaginable. in line with this, one should be forgiven for assuming GSK3 is evil and anything blocking it is good. problem is, GSK3 activitie is vital downstream of D2 receptor signalling and it’s now been discovered to be essential for sending D1 receptors back to the membrane after being stimulated, otherwise they would be destroyed. with this in mind, GSK3 is necessary for all positive emotions and for motor activity. on top of that, GSK3 modulates AMPA receptor subunits and in doing so, restrain seizure activity, supports proper memory processing, can suppress anxiety amongst many others.
OP, your understanding that GSK3 inhibition by lithium will suppress dopamine signalling is absolutely correct. unfortunately, I don’t believe this will help you deal with cravings or impulsivity in the long-term, as it is unsustainable. this is because hedonic Drive and goal directed behaviour facilitated by dopamine are likely the main component of human happiness. I suspected this all along, but recently read an article that supported my beliefs. Basically, the pursuit of pleasure might be more important than the actual experience of pleasure which is mediated by other neurotransmitters in keeping us happy. Furthermore, I theorise that dopamine mediated impulsivity helps to prevent rumination of negative thoughts and help us cast aside negative emotions.
Apart from the potentially dangerous effects of lithium, my concern is that in trying to control your cravings, you will find yourself emotionally numb from the lithium and dissatisfied with life. it’s medically underreported, but many online anecdote suggest lithium causes anhedonia/dysphoria which makes people want to discontinue it. furthermore, although this is not well understood, stopping lithium can cause lithium resistance. this means that the next time lithium is started, it will have no effects on the brain, neurons simply won’t respond to it.
 
i’ve read a few reports That higher lithium levels in the water supply of certain areas might be associated with decreased suicide or violent crime. unfortunately, these associations haven’t been verified and factors other than lithium could be at play. Furthermore, High lithium levels in tapwater have been linked to increased autism risk which at least from a biological sense is a very real possibility. over activation of AKT During and after brain development is a defining component of autism. lithium also activates AKT, so it’s easy to see how it could be a problem in development.
 
if you’re looking for a mood stabiliser, I would strongly recommend chelated magnesium which reportedly enters the brain much better than traditional magnesium supplements. magnesium limits NMDA receptor function to calm the brain, sustain efficient ATP production, and balances electrical activity in brain networks. in high doses, magnesium might have a mild sedative. and mood stabilising effect., but even low-dose can have significant anti-stress effects as long as they reach the brain.
As an essential mineral with low toxicity, magnesium is far safer than lithium especially for experimental use.
I read an anecdote online where someone claimed magnesium supplements made them feel depressed/anhedonic. whilst I find that hard to believe, especially given the weakness of most OCT magnesium supplements, if you do suffer any negative effects, you can just stop the magnesium.
In contrast, some animal studies show that, despite being able to reduce acute cocaine reward, magnesium injections could produce rewarding and stimulant effects of their own indicating a strong antidepressant effect.
 
just remembered you mentioned wanting to decrease cravings. Technically, lithium might help you to do that in the short term, but as I mentioned earlier, that is through partially shutting down the reward system and blocking post synaptic dopaminergic signalling. of course, as explained previously, this is not feasible over time as numbness and possibly depression would become overwhelming.
Meanwhile, magnesium is also able to significantly reduce drug reward and cravings in humans and animals and supporting abstinence. however, this is where the similarities with lithium end. magnesium suppresses excessive dopamine release at the presynaptic level but does not interfere with postsynaptic dopamine, receptor signaling like lithium does. therefore, magnesium’s anti-dopaminergic effect is much milder and brain region specific than those of lithium. on top of this, magnesium provides it’s own gentle, stimulation of the reward system, Reducing the need/desire to escape negative mood which often drives people back to relapse. this is much better than lithium, which reportedly produces dysphoria in many psychiatric patients, though probably more so in individuals without severe bipolar disorder.
 
Your description fits the pill's I bought many years ago. It supposedly helped achieve a healthy cognitivive function, improved brain function and could even prolong your live.

The kinda thing you buy when desperate. They were in a ULD like you mentioned, 1 mg.

Their intention was not to treat BiPolair, as the dosage is way to small. Whatever they where supposed to do never happened. At least back then they at least delivered. I think they have become scammers in the mean while.
 
I am on highly supervised lithium carbonate. If I were You I would not mess with lithium. An alkali-metal made into salt form. It is heavy on the body especially the kidney and thyroids. I am on a one month check-up period. Serum level kidney function an thyroid panel. All is fine after a decade my levels are a bit high or were last time so lover dose was adjusted till the next tests. My poor kidneys are not so happy with the lithium… But the values are still acceptable.

Do not go on lithium without supervision I beg You that one is not something to mess with.

What's your daily dose?
 
The doses required to treat type 1 bipolar are rather high, so for it to be effective you'd have to take a good amount of the orotate salt. It's usually sold in small doses, 20mg or less usually so you'd have to take quite abit to produce therapeutic effects strong enough to treat true bipolar disorder. At those types of doses you're better of with a prescription of lithium carbonate and regular monitoring off lithium blood levels due to inherent toxicity of lithium.

Low doses of supplement grade lithium orotate are best for mild depression and mood instability, but are not geared for psychiatric disorders. 5mg a few times a day won't hurt you though, but it's not gonna do much for severe bipolar disorder.
Lithium orotate is three times more bioavailable than lithium carbonate.

"Furthermore, the 24 h brain concentration of lithium after lithium orotate was approximately three times greater than that after lithium carbonate."
 
Lithium orotate is three times more bioavailable than lithium carbonate.

"Furthermore, the 24 h brain concentration of lithium after lithium orotate was approximately three times greater than that after lithium carbonate."

Yes, in rats, when administered as intraperitoneal injections. From an article published in 1978.

It probably does have higher bioavailability than carbonate but it's a leap to say that, "lithium orotate is three times more bioavailable than lithium carbonate" in any other setting. Humans and rats have broadly similar yet notably different metabolic rates and processes, which can affect how substances are absorbed, distributed, metabolized, excreted etc. These differences can significantly impact the concentration and duration of drugs in the system, so it's a major stretch to say this IP lithium orotate bioavailability study in rats from the 1970s means that it has 3x the bioavailability of the carbonate salt in humans.

But even if it is 3x bioavailability (which potentially could be an accurate approximation) the most common supplemental doses are in the 1-10mg range. In any event, I was already aware that the orotate salt was suspected to be somewhat more bioactive, but that notion has no bearing on my original point that you'd still need a whole lot these supplemental-grade lithium orotate pills/tablets to reach the types of concentrations used in psychiatry. And to attempt that is a bad idea given the unasssessed toxicity of even moderate doses of the orotate salt (aside from the issue with these doses of lithium in general).

And if you read the second article you'd know that there is limited data with respect to lithium orotate in humans. Note the title to that article ends in a question mark, not a period: "Lithium orotate: A superior option for lithium therapy?" - which is a question, not a statement (one they were unable to answer).
 


 
I'm sure it's been said but don't self-prescribe something as serous as lithium for bipolar disorder. I was diagnosed in 2012 and have been on all sorts of mess over the time and have self-medicated with various substances but lithium is the last one that the psychiatrists want to try and it is because of the salt levels or whatever. You need regular blood tests and all that.

Also stay away from Reddit in general - that's a good rule of thumb and definitely don't get medical advice from there.

I hate psychiatry and having to deal with psychiatrists but bipolar is a serious condition and it should be treated as such. You should be going to your mental health services to get this kind of help and info rather than going on.

Here there are people who know what they are talking about and can help but you need to be seen professionally. If the mess I'm on don't work (they have already caused me a lot of trouble with side effects) then they will probably try me I lithium. It is like the last resort for psychiatrists here and I think it's because of all the extra work that goes into making sure the dose is stable etc.
 
So someone turned me onto this formulation here and I wanted to ask if anyone has experience treating their mania with it or has knowledge about the safety of doing this?

Reddit is a mess and I get different answers. “It builds up in the body to toxic levels” “It’s lack of safety is blown out of proportion”

And then dosing. I heard as low as 1mg. That doesn’t sound right. I know it’s a different form but is it that much stronger than the original lithium salts. I know this is a salt too. I mean the original.

Idk about self treating but seems like drs just don’t know shit to my liking.

I took this for a while. Honestly didn't notice any effects.
 
I do believe lithium often works for those who need it but just like antipsychotics, it’s safety and side effect profiles are atrocious. that’s why researchers are rushing to develop better mood stabilisers. The fact that lithium is an inorganic ion with a huge range of potential biological interactions creates a complex set of target and off target effects, which makes its toxicity harder to manage.
It might well be the case that many people appear to be benefiting from lithium on the outside, when on the inside, they are suffering severely from emotional numbness. in many cases, lithium might simply be shutting down a persons emotions, that’s why many people on the drug describe a sense of being wrapped in cotton wool, being cut off from the outside world or being placed in a fish tank.
Cognitive impairment, apathy and lethargy are other common side effects, which overlap with those of antipsychotics and reflect the ability of lithium to disrupt dopaminergic signalling.
Finally, a study of lithium carbonate in an admittedly, small sample of healthy volunteers showed that dysphoria was a common side effect.
 
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