Harm Reduction Kratom with tapentadol help

[Jungo871]

Hi I am taking it easy with this stuff, and recently got kratom in. I have pain in my tooth, taken some kratom, and taken 100mg tapentadol, taken 600mg pregabalin and 20mg of diazepam. Does kratom fully block painkillers and if so the analgesic effect as well? Also does this combo seem dangerous

 

[plumbus-nine]

Rather the other way round, the tapentadol will bind to the mu opioid receptor with higher affinity and block many (not all, as kratom is quite promiscuous and binds to many sites) of kratom. Depends on your dosages though, in most doses both won't attach to all available receptors so leave a number open for the other compound.

Doesn't seem to be dangerous to me.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

I can only state my experience with a similar drug combo, tramadol and kratom. I've found this combo causes some nasty side effects and while it might not be dangerous, it isn't a good combo

 

[RUC4]

Hi I am taking it easy with this stuff, and recently got kratom in. I have pain in my tooth, taken some kratom, and taken 100mg tapentadol, taken 600mg pregabalin and 20mg of diazepam. Does kratom fully block painkillers and if so the analgesic effect as well? Also does this combo seem dangerous

How much kratom did you consume? That’s the first question.

Rather the other way round, the tapentadol will bind to the mu opioid receptor with higher affinity and block many (not all, as kratom is quite promiscuous and binds to many sites) of kratom. Depends on your dosages though, in most doses both won't attach to all available receptors so leave a number open for the other compound.

Doesn't seem to be dangerous to me.

Could be quite dangerous depending on how much valium you took and how much kratom. …and also l, do you take valium often?
I don’t ever take valium. So 10 mg will knock me on my ass. 20mg would certainly have me on the floor.

If I mixed A LOT of kratom with 20mg of valium, I wouldn’t be conscious and I would think it could be a dangerous mix for me.

 

[RC-Lover123]

Kratom is not strong enough to OD on, even with Valium. Kratom makes you jittery and you puke before you come anywhere close to OD. Obviously, this is not something you wanna try, so I agree that taking Valium with Kratom is not the best of ideas.

 

[Keif' Richards]

I think you might be overcomplicating it. I find it's easier to understand that both Tapentadol (Nucynta) and Mitragynine (Kratom) are both Opioids, with Mitragynine being the weaker Opioid in this situation. One doesn't really "block" the other. This is terminology that is only used in pharmacology to refer to an Opioid Antagonist like Naltrexone or Naloxone (Narcan).

Kratom is not strong enough to OD on, even with Valium. Kratom makes you jittery and you puke before you come anywhere close to OD. Obviously, this is not something you wanna try, so I agree that taking Valium with Kratom is not the best of ideas.

We actually had a similar discussion the other day in a different thread. I was discussing how "you never hear of anyone overdosing on Codeine", with the main takeaway being that despite this, we know that it must be possible to overdose on Codeine based upon really basic knowledge regarding how Opioids work. This brought to mind memories of the "Lean Epidemic" of yesteryear when Codeine/Promethazine cough syrup was a bit of a cultural phenomenon in certain areas. When you found folks taking Codeine, Antihistamines, Alcohol and potentially other stuff like Benzodiazepines, people definitely did start turning up dead.

So, while I totally understand where you're coming from, I'm going to wager that it's totally possible for Kratom to cause death by overdose in the right amount/circumstances.

 

[RC-Lover123]

So, while I totally understand where you're coming from, I'm going to wager that it's totally possible for Kratom to cause death by overdose in the right amount/circumstances.

Codeine is converted to morphine by your liver. Obviously, this can kill you if combined with enough booze, benzos or other depressants. With Kratom, I doubt that you could induce an actual Opioid OD, Mitragynine has a very pronounced "ceiling effect", it just doesn't get you any higher/deeper into the opiated state when consumed in excess, it just makes your extremely jittery and you will eventually have to puke. I would assume that Kratom overdose could lead to other issues such as seizures, though, and a real overdose is VERY unpleasant. However, I don't think that Kratom and Valium can easily kill an otherwise healthy individual. You would probably just have to puke and then sleep it off. With booze it may be different as booze can easily kill you on its own.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Codeine is converted to morphine by your liver. Obviously, this can kill you if combined with enough booze, benzos or other depressants. With Kratom, I doubt that you could induce an actual Opioid OD, Mitragynine has a very pronounced "ceiling effect", it just doesn't get you any higher/deeper into the opiated state when consumed in excess, it just makes your extremely jittery and you will eventually have to puke. I would assume that Kratom overdose could lead to other issues such as seizures, though, and a real overdose is VERY unpleasant. However, I don't think that Kratom and Valium can easily kill an otherwise healthy individual. You would probably just have to puke and then sleep it off. With booze it may be different as booze can easily kill you on its own.

I admit my knowledge of Mitragyine, Kratom and company is not relative to what I know about stuff like Morphine. I have tried to learn more, but as Kratom is a "new" substance here in Western Medicine specifically, we have a real dearth of information. I've heard others speak of a ceiling effect with Kratom too, so I'm inclined to believe there is some evidence for this, but I am nervous about using terminology like that until we know for certain.

To be utterly frank about things, most overdoses are not an issue of "slight error in math or proportions" when dosing one's self. Death by overdose in a healthy individual is more often than not a result of poly-substance abuse. In the age of Fentanyl, this has changed a lot. People used to die from Heroin overdoses, sure, but back then, it'd be "news" in the neighborhood whereas now it's so frequent we can't keep track of all the deaths.

We try to be wicked conservative in our advice. We're talking about drugs here. Drugs are notorious for warping our decision-making and common sense. People convince themselves "just one more" one too many times and they run out of favors, as it were. We want people to start with this conservative knowledge in th hopes it will be a ballast against the illusion-iinfluenced decision making people are capable of when they're using.

I agree it's highly unlikely that someone will overdose on a reasonable amount of just Kratom on its own, but I would hate myself if I enticed the first ever fatality into doing it by my words.

 

[PopaPerc]

Hi I am taking it easy with this stuff, and recently got kratom in. I have pain in my tooth, taken some kratom, and taken 100mg tapentadol, taken 600mg pregabalin and 20mg of diazepam. Does kratom fully block painkillers and if so the analgesic effect as well? Also does this combo seem dangerous

Combo doesn’t seem dangerous but the kratom may block the tapentadol

 

[RC-Lover123]

I agree it's highly unlikely that someone will overdose on a reasonable amount of just Kratom on its own, but I would hate myself if I enticed the first ever fatality into doing it by my words.

That's why I warned about a Kratom overdose being VERY unpleasant. I know because I've been there. I stupidly took something like 15 or even 20g of a new batch of Borneo White which turned out to be the most potent Kratom I ever had. Turned me into a shaking mess, bad nausea, heart racing like crazy, cold sweats, bouts of anxiety. Very unpleasant, to say the least. As a remedy, I quickly gulped down a liter of strong beer, which really helped with the shaking and anxiety

 

[TripMcnealy]

I think you might be overcomplicating it. I find it's easier to understand that both Tapentadol (Nucynta) and Mitragynine (Kratom) are both Opioids, with Mitragynine being the weaker Opioid in this situation. One doesn't really "block" the other. This is terminology that is only used in pharmacology to refer to an Opioid Antagonist like Naltrexone or Naloxone (Narcan).


We actually had a similar discussion the other day in a different thread. I was discussing how "you never hear of anyone overdosing on Codeine", with the main takeaway being that despite this, we know that it must be possible to overdose on Codeine based upon really basic knowledge regarding how Opioids work. This brought to mind memories of the "Lean Epidemic" of yesteryear when Codeine/Promethazine cough syrup was a bit of a cultural phenomenon in certain areas. When you found folks taking Codeine, Antihistamines, Alcohol and potentially other stuff like Benzodiazepines, people definitely did start turning up dead.

So, while I totally understand where you're coming from, I'm going to wager that it's totally possible for Kratom to cause death by overdose in the right amount/circumstances.

There is absolutely no way to overdose and die from plain leaf Kratom alone. You would probably need to consume half a kilo, and you would end up puking before you got 1/10th of the way there. Maybe there are some oddities out there? I mean paradoxical effects are fairly common, but there has yet to be a single Kratom OD I've come across, and believe me, I've been looking. The sensationalized "research articles" show a list of Kratom deaths. When further inspected, they failed to mention the Methadone, Fenatnyl, Benzos, alcohol, and or pyschiatric medications found in the blood.
It's like saying "Man Killed By Getting Kicked In Shin..."
read the entire article and find out he was shot 6 times as well.

Mitragynine does not suppress breathing, which is the main reason for opiate deaths. I'm not saying it wouldn't be dangerous for someone with no tolerance to anything, to take it alongside of alcohol and valium. Kratom od is basically feeling like shit for 3 hours. It's ceiling effect, mixed with its agonists and antagonists are what make it such a unique and safe drug. It's not 100 percent fool proof, but when I read about people saying it's worse than percs or dope, I want to laugh. Any withdrawal sucks. I don't care how much Kratom you're doing (again I'm sure there are outliers on both ends of spectrum), I'll take it over 300mg/day oxy dependency any day.
I've been taking the same dose range for years now. Any time I find myself taking more, I lower dose or frequency and it works better almost immediately.
I'm only here looking up tapentadol as a possible week long substitute, I can wean off, sure, but my chronic pain will make the vacation pointless if bringing kratom isn't an option. Sorry, I had to clear this up friend, especially since The FDA and their politicians are STILL going after it because of the very real danger it presents to THEIR opiate epidemic. The DEA let it go, but they won't. They can't have people taking their health into their own hands. They need that 6 year suboxone script and the endless scams of rehab and outpatient treatment centers.

 

[saddyra]

There is absolutely no way to overdose and die from plain leaf Kratom alone. You would probably need to consume half a kilo, and you would end up puking before you got 1/10th of the way there. Maybe there are some oddities out there? I mean paradoxical effects are fairly common, but there has yet to be a single Kratom OD I've come across, and believe me, I've been looking. The sensationalized "research articles" show a list of Kratom deaths. When further inspected, they failed to mention the Methadone, Fenatnyl, Benzos, alcohol, and or pyschiatric medications found in the blood.
It's like saying "Man Killed By Getting Kicked In Shin..."
read the entire article and find out he was shot 6 times as well.

Mitragynine does not suppress breathing, which is the main reason for opiate deaths. I'm not saying it wouldn't be dangerous for someone with no tolerance to anything, to take it alongside of alcohol and valium. Kratom od is basically feeling like shit for 3 hours. It's ceiling effect, mixed with its agonists and antagonists are what make it such a unique and safe drug. It's not 100 percent fool proof, but when I read about people saying it's worse than percs or dope, I want to laugh. Any withdrawal sucks. I don't care how much Kratom you're doing (again I'm sure there are outliers on both ends of spectrum), I'll take it over 300mg/day oxy dependency any day.
I've been taking the same dose range for years now. Any time I find myself taking more, I lower dose or frequency and it works better almost immediately.
I'm only here looking up tapentadol as a possible week long substitute, I can wean off, sure, but my chronic pain will make the vacation pointless if bringing kratom isn't an option. Sorry, I had to clear this up friend, especially since The FDA and their politicians are STILL going after it because of the very real danger it presents to THEIR opiate epidemic. The DEA let it go, but they won't. They can't have people taking their health into their own hands. They need that 6 year suboxone script and the endless scams of rehab and outpatient treatment centers.

I'm prescribed tapentadol 100mg 4x a day. I find that most red strain kratom do well as a substitute for it when it comes to pain. If you wanted to try tapentadol instead of kratom, I think it depends on what pain you are in. Nucynta is the only thing that works for my particular type of pain. I was prescribed very high doses of perc and vic and neither helped my pain and both caused horrible brain fog. Hated them. Was so happy when a pm prescribed nucynta. Takes care of my pain and no brain fog, dirty or groggy feeling. Although it can make me sleepy if I'm already laying down.