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Opioids Kratom Megathread V.6

Absolutely no seizure history. I have withdrawn from benzos multiple times cold turkey and mixed drugs that are known to cause seizures, both without issue. So far, very good luck on this front.

I take exactly 60g per day (four doses of 15g every five hours before I go to bed). I always wake up an hour or two before my alarm goes off for work wriggling in withdrawal, so that is when my first dose is. I have 6 days before I will be spending 4+ days with my family and drinking green goop out of water bottles is going to be fishy especially considering my history. They have helped me battle addiction for a long time and believe I'm 100% sober. It would crush them to know I am not.

Well, the long-term goal would definitely be to get off everything. It just never seems convenient to lower the kratom dosage. I have been through withdrawal so many times over the years that it has turned me into a baby. The slightest whiff of withdrawal has me feeling sorry for myself and avoiding work. The short-term goal is to make it through certain days using tramadol instead of kratom until I can jump back on kratom again and (in a perfect world) continue tapering my dose, a process that hasn't started yet.

Years ago, before I was on escitalopram, I would take 800mg of tramadol a day. I did get the "brain zaps" a few times (mostly when falling asleep or shortly before waking).

Thank you very much for your time and concern in this, toothpastedog. I appreciate the help and support.
 
Cool, well if you can try reduce your dose as much as you can before you hang with family.

It’s still a good idea to just make sure you don’t ger too much side effects from tramadol with your other meds, but I doubt you’ll have an issue if you stay under 300mg. 100-200mg should keep you well as you experience withdrawal from the kratom.

It’s good to hear your family is supportive. That is so huge, many family just disown or otherwise shun family members known to have this sort of history.

Btw how long have you been takin kratom/dependent on 60g/day?
 
Oh, wow. You think just 100 - 200mg/day of tramadol will keep the withdrawal from 60g/day of kratom at bay? Hopefully, it's more like 40g/day in six days. If I am reading that correctly, that is unexpected, amazing news.

Thanks. Yes, they used to be extremely vigilant about me taking ownership of my addiction issues, but once they saw how ernest I wanted to stop but could not, they recognized it as a disease and are willing to do anything for me if it means preventing me from picking up a drink/drug.

It is kind of a weird story, so I will just explain it all:

I got out of rehab about two years ago. I was there for concurrent use of benzos, heroin, tianeptine, phenibut, and amphetamines. When I left rehab, I had some residual opiate withdrawal still. In hindsight, I think I did not stay long enough. After a few days of being out, I could not handle the residual withdrawal/PAWS, so I started taking loperamide. Somehow, my brain rationalized that 40mg/day (20 pills) was no big deal since you can 1,600mg (two boxes of 800mg) at a wholesale grocery store (think Costco) for $12. I took around 40mg of loperamide every day for a year and a half. Well, I started feeling a weird weakness in a straight line from my chest to my left thumb and, after reading about loperamide's effects on the heart, decided to stop taking them. Since they were no big deal, I could just go cold turkey, right? Wrong. After cessation of loperamide, the weird weakness went away. However, after two days (loperamide has an extremely long half-life), I started experiencing real withdrawal. Not wanting to go back to having that weird feeling, I picked up some kratom. I thought kratom was much more powerful than loperamide, so just a little bit would fix the withdrawal from 40mg of loperamide/day. Nope. It took me a full 15g dose to do so. For the past six months, I have been taking 15g every five hours. Sorry, long story, but maybe someone who thinks loperamide is no big deal will read this as a cautionary tale.
 
Damn, long term loperamide use/dependency sounds horrible. Super helpful with this stuff, but horrible habit to get too deeply involved with (esp high dose use).

Yes, I am betting 100-200 (at most 300)mg of tramadol will keep you well. You’ll probably still feel some discomfort for first few days, but the tramadol should make a huge difference.

If you can get any gapabentin or baclofen that would also help a lot.
 
Great, thanks!

Maybe I am completely naive since I have never taken tramadol while being on an anti-depressant, but 100 - 300 mg of tramadol does not seem like a big deal even when on escitalopram. I have read stories online about a lot of people being prescribed 150 mg of tramadol/day while being on anti-depressants, all of which was known by their physician.
 
Yup, I don’t think the tramadol and SSRI issue is a big problem under 300-400mg tramadol, especially if you don’t have a history of seizures. I’ve known a number of people in Lexapro and tramadol, and they didn’t have issues (but they generally also only took prescribed 50mg dose of tramadol).

Good luck!
 
I created this account just to talk about this issue. You really helped me put my mind at ease, man. I super appreciate everything. Thanks times a million!
 
Kratom with Guanfacine?

Will this enhance the euphoria of Kratom? Make it feel more like an opiate?
 
I don't see why it would.. unless there's something I don't know. Have you tried different kratom suppliers and strains to get the effect you are looking for?
 
With these side effects I'm not sure I'd mix them.

Very common (>10% incidence) adverse effects include sleepiness, tiredness, headache, and stomach ache

Shoot, you can get your stomach ache with Kratom alone.
 
It might be a nice combination. Kratom does contain some alkaloids related to yohimbine, which act as antagonists at alpha2 adrenergic autoreceptors, causing noradrenaline release, which can make kratom overstimulating, this I've found is effectively reversed by alpha2 agonists such as clonidine or tizanidine (I've never tried guanfacine however as it isn't available in the UK)
 
No problem, my pleasure :) don’t just rely on my opinion though, as the more info you get the more power you’ll have :)
 
Jekyl Anhydride said:
With these side effects I'm not sure I'd mix them.

Very common (>10% incidence) adverse effects include sleepiness, tiredness, headache, and stomach ache

Shoot, you can get your stomach ache with Kratom alone.
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I agree that this combo doesn’t sound very fun. What do I know tho, I haven’t tried it (and have no intention of doing so).
 
Guanfacine feels like clonodine. Both are alpha 2 adrenergic agonists. You?d just feel relaxed in my opinion. I take guanfacine once in a while, I used to take it everyday, after a week I stopped feeling it to be honest. Tolerance builds fast. I?d say it?s a safe combo, don?t over do either
 
Okay this might be an odd question, but has anyone else noticed a serious drop in potency lately (this year)? I recently (maybe a month ago) started using Kratom again after many weeks clean from all opioids. I've been through maybe 6 different batches and strains since I picked it back up and I don't feel any of it. At most it relaxes my mind and calms me down, and even those feelings are impossible to distinguish from a possible placebo effect.

I tried an old stash from last year and practically nodded out on my couch. Anything from this year (2018) is basically inactive to me. I feel like a moron for spending $200+ on bags of dirt.

It certainly smells, tastes and looks (although it's much finer and powdery) like Kratom. I've drank it in juice, toss and washed, and tried multiple different tea recipes. I still continue to ingest it for the minor/imagined relaxing effects. So far no adverse effects. What gives?
 
toothpastedog said:
Damn, long term loperamide use/dependency sounds horrible. Super helpful with this stuff, but horrible habit to get too deeply involved with (esp high dose use).

Yes, I am betting 100-200 (at most 300)mg of tramadol will keep you well. You?ll probably still feel some discomfort for first few days, but the tramadol should make a huge difference.

If you can get any gapabentin or baclofen that would also help a lot.
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Just an FYI - 200 mg of tramadol only bought me an extra three hours before the kratom withdrawal set it.
 
Damn, that’s a shame. Did you redose the tramadol again, try something else, or what? Sorry to hear it didn’t help much!

I wonder if taking tramadol with kratom is ones system reduces the effectiveness of the tramadol like it does when I have taken hydrocodone or oxycodone on top of kratom? Did you wait till you were in major acute withdrawal from kratom before taking tramadol or take it within 12hrs of your last dose of kratom?

It would be awesome if you could share your timeline with this. Like last dose of how much kratom, how long before you took the tramadol, then how long it took to feel sick from the withdrawal after that. And how long you could normally go before going into withdrawal from kratom after your most recent dose of that.

Thank you for being our little guinea pig!!! As depressing as that is :\

The truth however is that by sharing this info with us you are helping many people, so there is kinda a silver lining to feel good about (if that is even possible when someone is in acute withdrawal :()

Also, are you considering trying again and upping your tramadol a bit?

Sorry for all the questions... your feedback is appreciated!
 
So kratom withdrawal usually starts setting in at T+ 5 hrs. I took the 200 mg of tramadol 3 hours after my first dose of 15g of kratom, wanting to see how long I could go between kratom doses. I went out with some friends and brought a shaker full of kratom just in case. At T + 8 hrs from the first dose of kratom (T+5 hrs of the 200mg tram), I started having withdrawals. The withdrawals actually had no physical discomfort (they usually do) but I was yawning, eye watering, and sneezing so much that things just looked weird, so I drank my kratom goop I had with me. In short, I did not wait until I was in full-on withdrawal.

One cool thing that happened was I woke up much later today and with barely any withdrawals. I made it 12 hours between my kratom dose last night to this morning. That had to be the tram. Today, I did what I did yesterday (tram at +3 hours), but with 300mg of tram instead of 200. Maybe that will buy me more than 3 extra hours.

I skipped my 20mg of Lexapro yesterday and today, but I don't like to miss more than two days of my antidepressant, so I'll go back on it tomorrow. I just need to know the correct dose of tram that will let me go like 24 hours without sneezing, nose running, yawning, and eye watering like a fiend. This pursuit could, however, get pretty sketchy when I resume my high dose of Lexapro.
 
Sounds like you’re doing pretty well. I’d imagine the tramadol would work even better if you waited until you were in full blown acute withdrawal before taking it, like 24hrs after your last dose of kratom.

If you can get gabapentin, I’m still willing to get that tramadol plus that will mane withdrawal very manageable. Actually gabapentin alone at moderately high doses totally killed kratom withdrawal for me (still felt a little malaise but nothing like cold turkey).

Still, it wouldn’t be realistic to think you’ll be able to escape 100% of the discomfort or withdrawal, so even if you took all ideal comfort meds it still would require commitment and effort.
 
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