ronthetiger
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2012
- Messages
- 39
Any user of kratom can attest to the annoyance of choking down multiple grams of rough powder in order to achieve your own personal state of bliss.
Having recently extracted DMT from various plant sources, I wondered why I could not use the same sort of methodology in order to extract the active alkaloids (particularly mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine) from Kratom powder in order to produce an easier to ingest crystalline solution.
After extensive research on the subject I found only a handful of TEKs on the subject (which all utalized different methods and occasionally were inconsistent in theory) and even less information on the subjective effects of the end product utilizing different ROAs.
For reference, this is the TEK that I (roughly) followed.
Materials:
5% acetic acid (200ml)
NaOH (uncertain*)
Naphtha (approximately 30 - 50ml per pull)
Distilled H2O (200ml)
Sink (for heat bath)
Various glass jars
Flat non-stick baking pan
Safety Goggles
Gloves
30 grams Bali Kratom
*I started out with 3 grams of NaOH, however the layers (after several hours of sitting) refused to separate and so I continued to add NaOH at a slow pace until the layers began to separate more fully. I would estimate that I added around 10 - 15 grams of NaOH overall (for any chemists more versed than me I should add that I was shooting for a pH of approximately 11 and was unsure of how to calculate how much NaOH would be needed to raise it to such a level), but my estimation could vary drastically in either direction. In any case, NaOH is a strong base and should always be handled with extreme care. The combination of NaOH with water produces an exothermic reaction and should, thus, always be added very slowly to a solution containing H2O; NEVER pour H2O into a jar containing NaOH, always add the NaOH to a stable liquid solution instead.
I began by freezing 30 grams of my Bali Kratom by throwing the jar containing my 30 grams into a deep freeze freezer for about 5 hours. I'm unsure if this aided in the extraction process or not, but I had the extra time and decided that it couldn't hurt anything.
I then heated and added 200ml of Heinz distilled vinegar (5% acetic acid) to the jar which was just enough to cover the powder completely. I then stirred this mixture and let sit until I perceived no further dissolving of kratom, at which point I added an equal amount (200ml) of warm distilled H2O. I ran a hot water bath (an electric hot plate would work even better) and set the solution in it constantly changing out lukewarm water with near-boiling water.
I let this solution sit for approximately an hour as I attempted once more to mathematically determine how much NaOH to add to shift my pH from approximately 2.6 to 11. Mathematically I came out with an answer of 3 grams (or .075 moles) of NaOH. I have, in fact, read TEKs where people have added 1 gram of NaOH for every gram of kratom, but I thought that was a bit overkill and decided that if I needed to add more NaOH I always could, but by adding an excessively large amount of base I was afraid I would destroy the alkaloids I was trying to extract.
After the hour passed (while constantly keeping my hot water bath hot) I attempted to defat my solution using 50ml of naphtha. After adding, shaking, and letting sit, however, my non-polar solvent never separated from my solution. This concerned me, and I considered throwing the whole solution in the freezer to help the layers separate. In the end, however, I decided that I would simply continue and skip the defatting step.
After adding the 3 grams of NaOH to the still warm solution I saw a small amount of separation in my liquids, however the amount of non-polar solvent which had separated was clearly not equal to the amount put in (50ml) and so I continued adding NaOH at intervals of approximately a gram, shaking, and letting separate until the layers separated completely leaving 50ml of naphtha and 400ml of my H2O and acetic acid solution.
The naphtha solution was very yellow in color and resembled very accurately flat Mountain Dew or piss saturated with vitamins. I then used a needless syringe to pull off the naphtha and transport it to a separate container. I did 5 pulls on this using naphtha and the 5th pull was just as yellow as the first.
Now, although I used naphtha (100% light petroleum distillates; Coleman fuel) I only did so because I did not have the funds to purchase, what I consider to be, a superior non-polar solvent such as toluene or DCM (methylene chloride). If you have either of these solvents I suggest you use them.
At this point many people would either evaporate their saturated naphtha solution or (as I generally do) freeze precipitate out their final product. However, in the name of curiosity and science I decided to salt out my product using 5% acetic acid. The benefits to this would, as I see it, be that you can safely evaporate your liquid in any living environment, and also creating a more snort-able salt solution.
However, let it be known to you pioneers that I have read many an account which claims 7-hydroxymitragynine (currently the best candidate for the opiate-like effects from kratom) cannot form salts (or at least hydrochloric salts) and my final salt solution seems to support that claim.
However, before salting out the kratom crystals, I extracted a couple of ml of my naphtha and let it evaporate so I could provide a bio-assessment of both the salt and freebase forms of my final solution due to the lack of information out there.
By adding equal amounts of vinegar (250ml; 5 pulls of approximately 30 - 50 ml naphtha) and shaking I obtained a saturated solution of acetic acid. I continued to add acid to the naphtha solution until the naphtha returned to an almost clear color once more.
I then left the acetic acid solution under a heat lamp for 5 days and obtained light orange-ish crystals which weighed 374mg. The accepted percentage of alkaloids in the kratom plant are as follows: "mitragynine at levels of 1-6% and 7-hydroxymirtrogynine at levels of 0.01-0.04%."
This data can be obtained via Wikipedia or through this study.
Using this data, I assumed that from 30 grams of kratom I would obtain approximately 350mg of material, and I did. The freeze precipitated freebase solution yielded approximately 27mg and was much more active than the alkaloid salts at similar doses.
Bio-assessment:
Original Kratom Leaf: ROA: Oral
As I have used various types of Kratom I feel as though I am in a suitable position to assess the subjective effects of the leaf and compare it to the extracts. It should be noted, however, that the extracts were (for the most part) dosed nasally and thus ought to differ in their ROA, duration, and subjective intensity. This has all been taken into account in the following.
Dose: 8 grams of Bali Kratom leaf. This is my standard dose
Set and Setting: With my girlfriend, she will also be participating in this experiment with me. The experiment spans multiple weeks (I took the leaf before the extraction process and waited at least a week in between doses) in order to avoid tolerance issues, but we both took notes so that we could accurately describe the experience.
mg to g: N/A, this control dose was done so that I could accurately asses the strength of my extract in terms of orally dosed grams of Kratom leaf.
Salt Solution: ROA: insufflation
Dose: 60mg initially, a 50mg was administered at approximately 30 minutes in. I determined the dose simply by using the rule of ratios. 35 grams of kratom leaf ought to provide me with 5 doses, so I split the 374mg salt into fifths and erred on the low side as I do with every new drug.
Set and Setting: The salt solution went up my nose smoothly and no pain was experienced, however, my girlfriend experienced sharp pain which she expressed as a 9 out of 10 on a pain scale, and this deterred her from snorting her 25mg bump later in the night. I'm unsure as to why this may have happened; I considered the possibility that the crystals had not fully dried, but I doubt that is actually the case. Again, I experienced no pain in snorting either my initial or my subsequent doses.
mg to g: I was actually very disappointed with this salt solution. Upon administration a "rush" was experienced which resembled that of a cocaine rush but less enjoyable and (actually) verging on uncomfortable. There were clear effects, mainly anxiolytic, such as an instant decrease in heart rate and a fuzziness in the head as well as vastly increased tactile senses. This may have been due to dosage issues, as when I snorted my 50mg bump I felt the high take a sudden shift from an MDMA-like body buzz and xanax like feeling of peace and provided much more euphoria and sedation reminiscent of a true opiate. However, the experience is not something I would have paid for and felt as though it was missing a key ingredient to the entirely of the experience, although I could not ever figure out exactly what it was. My girlfriend experienced similar feelings (the MDMA-like increase in tactile senses as well as a feeling of peace and calm but without euphoria) and we both noticed that the effects had almost completely vanished (or were at least below threshold) within about 45 minutes. However, upon insufflation of my 50mg bump I experienced a drastic increase in the length of my high, which makes me believe that perhaps our experience was poor solely due to the fact that our dose was too small to reflect the true potential of this extract.
The salt was not worth the effort to make, but if it had provided more of a positive experience then I would have attempted to extract more of the alkaloids. I was reminded of the various articles I read claiming 7-hydroxymitragynine was unable to be converted to a salt, which is why vendors only sell it in ethanol solutions. I initially regarded this claim as ridiculous, as all alkaloids exist in plants in their salt form so why should I be unable to convert the alkaloid back into a salt after my pulls, but from experience I must say that there may be truth to this statement.
mg to g: I cannot accurately give an estimate of approximately how many grams of kratom this extract felt like, as it felt very little like kratom at all. The initial feeling was described by both me and my girlfriend as a low-dose mixture of alprazolam and MDMA, but more like the prior. I would say that the high was similar to 1mg of alprazolam. However, upon the administration of the 50mg bump the experience did take a more opiate-like turn, and the effects (while mild) did seem to mimic in their nature a experience of what I might imagine 3 grams of kratom may feel like but without the stimulation associated with low doses of kratom leaf.
Salt Solution: ROA: Oral
Dose: 100mg
Set and Setting: After the disappointment with the insufflation of the salt solution my girlfriend and I decided that we would increase the dose and take it orally (in order to circumvent the pain my girlfriend had experienced the week prior). The effects of this oral dose were much more enjoyable than that of the insufflated dose. Again, the experienced seemed to be missing something important, but the length of the experience was drastically increased.
mg to g: This method was vastly superior to the prior method, but still did not produce many feelings which I associated with kratom. The experience was more similar to a moderate dose of xanax but without the impairment of memory or though; the experience was equivalent to perhaps a mg and a half or so of alprazolam.
Free-Base Solution: ROA: insufflation
Dose: 27mg. My girlfriend did not participate in this experiment as there was not enough substance for both of us and splitting such a small dose would result in inaccurate subjective results
Set and Setting: Alone in my room. This was actually the first of the two products that I sampled as it dried much quicker than the salt solution. The insufflation of this was not uncomfortable and provided an near instant opiate-like high. The free-base solution was far superior to the salt solution in that it provided a nearly full range experience of kratom at a low dose. The effects manifested themselves, mainly, physically through heaviness in the limbs as well as slight dissociation from one's body. This product was much more enjoyable and less subtle than the salt solution, and I would suggest that if you plan on preforming an a/b extraction on kratom you would be much better off leaving it in its freebase state. By shutting out the outside world I was able to achieve OBEs with ease. The experience lasted approximately an hour and a half before the effects became unnoticeable.
mg to g: This product differed from the standard kratom leaf by providing a slightly better, in my opinion, ratio of effects in the user. There was little to no stimulation, and the high was much more comparable to morphine or hydrocodone than kratom itself is. I plan on preforming the extraction again and freeze precipitating out the freebase crystals instead of attempting to salt them out of my naphtha solution. This experience was much closer to a "true" opiate high and would be comparable to 5 grams or so of kratom leaf, but much more sedative and subjectively stronger due to the "rush" and near instant onset of the freebase solution when snorted.
I apologize for the length of this post, but there is so little information out there concerning kratom extractions, and the information I found failed to describe the effects of their product and how it compared to the oral use of kratom leaf. Next time I preform an extraction on kratom I will experiment with vaporizing the freebase solution.
Having recently extracted DMT from various plant sources, I wondered why I could not use the same sort of methodology in order to extract the active alkaloids (particularly mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine) from Kratom powder in order to produce an easier to ingest crystalline solution.
After extensive research on the subject I found only a handful of TEKs on the subject (which all utalized different methods and occasionally were inconsistent in theory) and even less information on the subjective effects of the end product utilizing different ROAs.
For reference, this is the TEK that I (roughly) followed.
Materials:
5% acetic acid (200ml)
NaOH (uncertain*)
Naphtha (approximately 30 - 50ml per pull)
Distilled H2O (200ml)
Sink (for heat bath)
Various glass jars
Flat non-stick baking pan
Safety Goggles
Gloves
30 grams Bali Kratom
*I started out with 3 grams of NaOH, however the layers (after several hours of sitting) refused to separate and so I continued to add NaOH at a slow pace until the layers began to separate more fully. I would estimate that I added around 10 - 15 grams of NaOH overall (for any chemists more versed than me I should add that I was shooting for a pH of approximately 11 and was unsure of how to calculate how much NaOH would be needed to raise it to such a level), but my estimation could vary drastically in either direction. In any case, NaOH is a strong base and should always be handled with extreme care. The combination of NaOH with water produces an exothermic reaction and should, thus, always be added very slowly to a solution containing H2O; NEVER pour H2O into a jar containing NaOH, always add the NaOH to a stable liquid solution instead.
I began by freezing 30 grams of my Bali Kratom by throwing the jar containing my 30 grams into a deep freeze freezer for about 5 hours. I'm unsure if this aided in the extraction process or not, but I had the extra time and decided that it couldn't hurt anything.
I then heated and added 200ml of Heinz distilled vinegar (5% acetic acid) to the jar which was just enough to cover the powder completely. I then stirred this mixture and let sit until I perceived no further dissolving of kratom, at which point I added an equal amount (200ml) of warm distilled H2O. I ran a hot water bath (an electric hot plate would work even better) and set the solution in it constantly changing out lukewarm water with near-boiling water.
I let this solution sit for approximately an hour as I attempted once more to mathematically determine how much NaOH to add to shift my pH from approximately 2.6 to 11. Mathematically I came out with an answer of 3 grams (or .075 moles) of NaOH. I have, in fact, read TEKs where people have added 1 gram of NaOH for every gram of kratom, but I thought that was a bit overkill and decided that if I needed to add more NaOH I always could, but by adding an excessively large amount of base I was afraid I would destroy the alkaloids I was trying to extract.
After the hour passed (while constantly keeping my hot water bath hot) I attempted to defat my solution using 50ml of naphtha. After adding, shaking, and letting sit, however, my non-polar solvent never separated from my solution. This concerned me, and I considered throwing the whole solution in the freezer to help the layers separate. In the end, however, I decided that I would simply continue and skip the defatting step.
After adding the 3 grams of NaOH to the still warm solution I saw a small amount of separation in my liquids, however the amount of non-polar solvent which had separated was clearly not equal to the amount put in (50ml) and so I continued adding NaOH at intervals of approximately a gram, shaking, and letting separate until the layers separated completely leaving 50ml of naphtha and 400ml of my H2O and acetic acid solution.
The naphtha solution was very yellow in color and resembled very accurately flat Mountain Dew or piss saturated with vitamins. I then used a needless syringe to pull off the naphtha and transport it to a separate container. I did 5 pulls on this using naphtha and the 5th pull was just as yellow as the first.
Now, although I used naphtha (100% light petroleum distillates; Coleman fuel) I only did so because I did not have the funds to purchase, what I consider to be, a superior non-polar solvent such as toluene or DCM (methylene chloride). If you have either of these solvents I suggest you use them.
At this point many people would either evaporate their saturated naphtha solution or (as I generally do) freeze precipitate out their final product. However, in the name of curiosity and science I decided to salt out my product using 5% acetic acid. The benefits to this would, as I see it, be that you can safely evaporate your liquid in any living environment, and also creating a more snort-able salt solution.
However, let it be known to you pioneers that I have read many an account which claims 7-hydroxymitragynine (currently the best candidate for the opiate-like effects from kratom) cannot form salts (or at least hydrochloric salts) and my final salt solution seems to support that claim.
However, before salting out the kratom crystals, I extracted a couple of ml of my naphtha and let it evaporate so I could provide a bio-assessment of both the salt and freebase forms of my final solution due to the lack of information out there.
By adding equal amounts of vinegar (250ml; 5 pulls of approximately 30 - 50 ml naphtha) and shaking I obtained a saturated solution of acetic acid. I continued to add acid to the naphtha solution until the naphtha returned to an almost clear color once more.
I then left the acetic acid solution under a heat lamp for 5 days and obtained light orange-ish crystals which weighed 374mg. The accepted percentage of alkaloids in the kratom plant are as follows: "mitragynine at levels of 1-6% and 7-hydroxymirtrogynine at levels of 0.01-0.04%."
This data can be obtained via Wikipedia or through this study.
Using this data, I assumed that from 30 grams of kratom I would obtain approximately 350mg of material, and I did. The freeze precipitated freebase solution yielded approximately 27mg and was much more active than the alkaloid salts at similar doses.
Bio-assessment:
Original Kratom Leaf: ROA: Oral
As I have used various types of Kratom I feel as though I am in a suitable position to assess the subjective effects of the leaf and compare it to the extracts. It should be noted, however, that the extracts were (for the most part) dosed nasally and thus ought to differ in their ROA, duration, and subjective intensity. This has all been taken into account in the following.
Dose: 8 grams of Bali Kratom leaf. This is my standard dose
Set and Setting: With my girlfriend, she will also be participating in this experiment with me. The experiment spans multiple weeks (I took the leaf before the extraction process and waited at least a week in between doses) in order to avoid tolerance issues, but we both took notes so that we could accurately describe the experience.
mg to g: N/A, this control dose was done so that I could accurately asses the strength of my extract in terms of orally dosed grams of Kratom leaf.
Salt Solution: ROA: insufflation
Dose: 60mg initially, a 50mg was administered at approximately 30 minutes in. I determined the dose simply by using the rule of ratios. 35 grams of kratom leaf ought to provide me with 5 doses, so I split the 374mg salt into fifths and erred on the low side as I do with every new drug.
Set and Setting: The salt solution went up my nose smoothly and no pain was experienced, however, my girlfriend experienced sharp pain which she expressed as a 9 out of 10 on a pain scale, and this deterred her from snorting her 25mg bump later in the night. I'm unsure as to why this may have happened; I considered the possibility that the crystals had not fully dried, but I doubt that is actually the case. Again, I experienced no pain in snorting either my initial or my subsequent doses.
mg to g: I was actually very disappointed with this salt solution. Upon administration a "rush" was experienced which resembled that of a cocaine rush but less enjoyable and (actually) verging on uncomfortable. There were clear effects, mainly anxiolytic, such as an instant decrease in heart rate and a fuzziness in the head as well as vastly increased tactile senses. This may have been due to dosage issues, as when I snorted my 50mg bump I felt the high take a sudden shift from an MDMA-like body buzz and xanax like feeling of peace and provided much more euphoria and sedation reminiscent of a true opiate. However, the experience is not something I would have paid for and felt as though it was missing a key ingredient to the entirely of the experience, although I could not ever figure out exactly what it was. My girlfriend experienced similar feelings (the MDMA-like increase in tactile senses as well as a feeling of peace and calm but without euphoria) and we both noticed that the effects had almost completely vanished (or were at least below threshold) within about 45 minutes. However, upon insufflation of my 50mg bump I experienced a drastic increase in the length of my high, which makes me believe that perhaps our experience was poor solely due to the fact that our dose was too small to reflect the true potential of this extract.
The salt was not worth the effort to make, but if it had provided more of a positive experience then I would have attempted to extract more of the alkaloids. I was reminded of the various articles I read claiming 7-hydroxymitragynine was unable to be converted to a salt, which is why vendors only sell it in ethanol solutions. I initially regarded this claim as ridiculous, as all alkaloids exist in plants in their salt form so why should I be unable to convert the alkaloid back into a salt after my pulls, but from experience I must say that there may be truth to this statement.
mg to g: I cannot accurately give an estimate of approximately how many grams of kratom this extract felt like, as it felt very little like kratom at all. The initial feeling was described by both me and my girlfriend as a low-dose mixture of alprazolam and MDMA, but more like the prior. I would say that the high was similar to 1mg of alprazolam. However, upon the administration of the 50mg bump the experience did take a more opiate-like turn, and the effects (while mild) did seem to mimic in their nature a experience of what I might imagine 3 grams of kratom may feel like but without the stimulation associated with low doses of kratom leaf.
Salt Solution: ROA: Oral
Dose: 100mg
Set and Setting: After the disappointment with the insufflation of the salt solution my girlfriend and I decided that we would increase the dose and take it orally (in order to circumvent the pain my girlfriend had experienced the week prior). The effects of this oral dose were much more enjoyable than that of the insufflated dose. Again, the experienced seemed to be missing something important, but the length of the experience was drastically increased.
mg to g: This method was vastly superior to the prior method, but still did not produce many feelings which I associated with kratom. The experience was more similar to a moderate dose of xanax but without the impairment of memory or though; the experience was equivalent to perhaps a mg and a half or so of alprazolam.
Free-Base Solution: ROA: insufflation
Dose: 27mg. My girlfriend did not participate in this experiment as there was not enough substance for both of us and splitting such a small dose would result in inaccurate subjective results
Set and Setting: Alone in my room. This was actually the first of the two products that I sampled as it dried much quicker than the salt solution. The insufflation of this was not uncomfortable and provided an near instant opiate-like high. The free-base solution was far superior to the salt solution in that it provided a nearly full range experience of kratom at a low dose. The effects manifested themselves, mainly, physically through heaviness in the limbs as well as slight dissociation from one's body. This product was much more enjoyable and less subtle than the salt solution, and I would suggest that if you plan on preforming an a/b extraction on kratom you would be much better off leaving it in its freebase state. By shutting out the outside world I was able to achieve OBEs with ease. The experience lasted approximately an hour and a half before the effects became unnoticeable.
mg to g: This product differed from the standard kratom leaf by providing a slightly better, in my opinion, ratio of effects in the user. There was little to no stimulation, and the high was much more comparable to morphine or hydrocodone than kratom itself is. I plan on preforming the extraction again and freeze precipitating out the freebase crystals instead of attempting to salt them out of my naphtha solution. This experience was much closer to a "true" opiate high and would be comparable to 5 grams or so of kratom leaf, but much more sedative and subjectively stronger due to the "rush" and near instant onset of the freebase solution when snorted.
I apologize for the length of this post, but there is so little information out there concerning kratom extractions, and the information I found failed to describe the effects of their product and how it compared to the oral use of kratom leaf. Next time I preform an extraction on kratom I will experiment with vaporizing the freebase solution.
