Knowing before perceiving

[Synaps3]

I had this one experience with 2C-I a few years ago, that even though I really didn't like the drug overall, I had this crazy experience on it and want to know if anyone has ever experienced this with other psychedelics (mushrooms maybe).

There was one point that lasted maybe a few minutes (don't really know because my time perception was off). I had this experience of seeing objects in my head, not just shapes and fractals, but actual things from this reality. The main point though, was that I was knowing everything before it even registered in my mind. The things I saw were full, complete, flawless, and they just were. This was happening before my mind knew what they were, and then like a second later my mind would be like "oh that's a mouse cursor moving", but I already knew that.

I took way too much, possibly up to 100mg. I didn't have a scale at the time so I just estimated. I was loosing my mind because this was my first trip and I was just blown away.

 

[coelophysis]

This happens to me all of the time. It happens too rapidly for me to ever tell someone in time. It's always too late and the premonition has already come true and passed.
Sometimes I wonder if a) this is a sign of some sort of "psychic ability" that once you realize you have you can try to train yourself to time it better to be beneficial in some way.
or
b) My brain processing things quicker than I realize, as if I was subconsciously aware of it before it was the center of my attention. Just a bit of brain lag maybe.

 

[Hessam]

2C-I has an incredible mind trip. I don't know how much you took, but 100mg is too much, unless your mind is ready to be blown away.

 

[phuckingnutz]

This happens to me all of the time. It happens too rapidly for me to ever tell someone in time. It's always too late and the premonition has already come true and passed.
Sometimes I wonder if a) this is a sign of some sort of "psychic ability" that once you realize you have you can try to train yourself to time it better to be beneficial in some way.
or
b) My brain processing things quicker than I realize, as if I was subconsciously aware of it before it was the center of my attention. Just a bit of brain lag maybe.

Ok...i'm not really getting this...you see something in your head and you know what it is before it registers...this is psychic....how?
I picture a fork in my head and know it's a fork before i know it's a fork...?
Bear with me...i'm not the brightest Crayon in the box.

 

[pupnik]

because my time perception was off.

yes the sense of time is disrupted because each moment is fading more slowly than usual on psychedelic.
this above all produces the effects you get,
richer color - previous images layered with current visual sense
trails and tracers - a series of previous images (not yet faded fully) blending together to make a momentary take that has many momentary positions.
richer sensation in body - same (layered touch while moments fade more slowly)

as for sense of time passing that is very easily disrupted since we note the passing of moments and moments are stacking up and still active though normally long past their due date.

ergo

something happened and you are aware of it, but you are still immersed with something a few moments ago but it is still happening as if it is just fresh (not faded) so you have both but are more involved with a previous than a current (you are sliding down into the stack of time or moments) this gives rise to the apparent awareness before awareness...
deja vu even.

one fun test when this is happening is to keep youre eyes open and turn around in one spot...
you get to see 360 degrees around you... it is fascinating.

 

[phuckingnutz]

OK. Makes more sense now...i've had time stand still on 4-AcO-DMT as well as higher dosages of DMT, LSA, but still don't get the premonition part of it.
Oh well, probably just jet-lag due to a heavy DMT session last night...thanks for the clarification though.

 

[coelophysis]

Ok...i'm not really getting this...you see something in your head and you know what it is before it registers...this is psychic....how?
I picture a fork in my head and know it's a fork before i know it's a fork...?
Bear with me...i'm not the brightest Crayon in the box.

You may have confused me a little bit now too, but we'll get to the bottom of this lol.
The reason I typed up my opinions in the a) & b) fashion was to detail how there could be more than one feasible explanation as to why it occurs. I was sort of outlining the spectrum of what it seems like along with a more skeptical view.

you see something in your head and you know what it is before it registers...this is psychic....how?

How would that scenario you mention not be considered a psychic power? It would seem like an instance of clairvoyance if you think of an object out of the blue moments before seeing a physical version of the object in front of you.

I picture a fork in my head and know it's a fork before i know it's a fork...?

I'm not sure if you're under the impression that these occurrences happen by choice or not. I'm not clear about what you mean by "know it's a fork before I know it's a fork."
What I was getting at moreso with my second opinion on the phenomenon was that if a fork sprang to my mind just moments before I saw an actual fork in front of me I couldn't outweigh the fact that the brain is quite powerful and running many calculations at all times. We're always on auto pilot with breathing and blinking, so there are definitely things going on that we aren't always conscious of. For example, right now I'm focusing on my computer screen and the words that I'm typing up. Yet I can still see things in my peripheral vision on my desk and on the walls. I wouldn't be that surprised if my subconscious mind was doing it's best to gather, filter, and put a label to what I'm not paying attention to. Just a simple awareness of surroundings type of instinct. So I saw the fork, but I didn't pay attention to it, but regardless my eyes did scan over it. So even though I'm not aware of it, the idea/knowledge of the fork is still freshly bouncing around my mind and once I glance away from what is currently holding my attention, if my eyes shift to the fork, my mind will connect dots that I didn't know were forming at all. Fork was in the back of my mind, then physical fork finally grabbed my attention and an instance of coincidence now has my attention. I feel as though I randomly guessed something when really my brain was working ahead of my attention span/focus.

 

[pupnik]

OK. Makes more sense now...i've had time stand still on 4-AcO-DMT as well as higher dosages of DMT, LSA, but still don't get the premonition part of it.
Oh well, probably just jet-lag due to a heavy DMT session last night...thanks for the clarification though.

how about talking to yourself and answering back and feeling like more than one person is active in your mind at the same time...
this is the thing... if moments fade more slowly, the complex that is interesting you most keeps you engaged, and often, this spawns a semi-autonomous self with persisting reactions and non-faded sensations and memories, while at the same time another self(ves) continues in the mainline, or on any of a multitude of moments that follows and fails to fade completely... and so any particular reaction from any particular personality framework can spark back to life, and more than one person can in this way seem to be active in the same person's mind when they are really stoned....

when really really stoned then the moments last so long before fading that time stops altogether.

this may be accompanied with a black out or whiteout, or it may just be an eternity though it may only last for a second.

 

[Goddess Mode]

2C-I has an incredible mind trip. I don't know how much you took, but 100mg is too much, unless your mind is ready to be blown away.

Really? I found 2C-I to be extremely hollow, and I gave it a real chance. I'm talking doses comparable to what the OP took, during which I still felt mentally sober despite visually tripping hard.

 

[Synaps3]

Really? I found 2C-I to be extremely hollow, and I gave it a real chance. I'm talking doses comparable to what the OP took, during which I still felt mentally sober despite visually tripping hard.

I agree. It was very visual for me, but didn't really effect my thought process other than speeding it up a lot. So overall, I didn't really like it that much other than this weird effect I noticed on it.

@pupnik: any particular psychedelic you notice this effect on? I think you maybe right about the moments stacking up and creating the allusion of psychic ability. Maybe it's just the brain getting confused about which event on the stack is actually occurring at the present moment? That 360 view thing sounds interesting - got to try it.

 

[pupnik]

I agree. It was very visual for me, but didn't really effect my thought process other than speeding it up a lot. So overall, I didn't really like it that much other than this weird effect I noticed on it.

@pupnik: any particular psychedelic you notice this effect on? I think you maybe right about the moments stacking up and creating the allusion of psychic ability. Maybe it's just the brain getting confused about which event on the stack is actually occurring at the present moment? That 360 view thing sounds interesting - got to try it.

any dose of salvia
most marijuana highs
most lsd, lsz trips
shrooms
often but not always on nbox's

 

[GreenMachine]

i dont quite believe in telepathy, in the common definition of the term, but there is an unmistakable phenomenon that occurs sometimes (or maybe all the time!) that i started noticing when i first began to take psychedelics. it was like you say, "knowing before seeing". its as if your brain, the human supercomputer, is registering all possible outcomes of a situation and starts to really hit on the most probable results--and the closer you get to the event, the more probable the outomes become. its like the tuning of a cosmic instrument.

i really began to notice it when i started jamming heavily. as a musician in a free-form jam, with no real rules or expectations, anything can happen. when someone plays a riff and you cop to it everything begins to sync up. when everyone is in sync together, it becomes easy to make predictions about what each other musician will play. the more experience you have with the musicians, the better you can judge your decisions. action, reaction, action, reaction, happening faster and faster, in slice after slice of micro-moments of psuedo-telepathic links to the other musicians brains, all without speaking a word.

far out stuff. this thread reminds me of what people say about neal cassady. he was insane driver. drove three times the speed limit in downtown san fransisco with no regard to stop signs or traffic lights. bob weir said he could "see around walls" in a way.

heres jerry garcia on neil cassady:


OP, you should read the electric kool-aid acid test if you havent. lots of stuff about these kind of things in it.

 

[Solipsis]

There was one point that lasted maybe a few minutes (don't really know because my time perception was off). I had this experience of seeing objects in my head, not just shapes and fractals, but actual things from this reality. The main point though, was that I was knowing everything before it even registered in my mind. The things I saw were full, complete, flawless, and they just were. This was happening before my mind knew what they were, and then like a second later my mind would be like "oh that's a mouse cursor moving", but I already knew that.

Isn't that perceiving before knowing then?

And well I think input information travels through different layers of the brain, not sure but I am guessing first the lower-middle brain up/out to the cortex. Maybe you experienced more latency but it is much more likely IMO that you just became much more aware that there is a latency in the first place. The reality is actually that our higher conscious brain is always a little late to become conscious (rather than merely aware) of what is happening, and even what we ourselves are actioning... we have the illusion that we experience real-time in the moment but truly our conscious brain is giving the report of what has already taken place a moment ago.
(Attention is different though, it spans much more time)

On 2C-I and especially strong experiences it does seem like different modalities (many of which sensory) of the brain are triggered in an isolated way, even dissociated or divorced from others. For example abstractly experiencing the color red flowing off the top of the head or brain (actually semi-synaesthetic effects I know also from 2C-B and 2C-E is known for related effects).
Not every psychedelic tends to trigger the same things or influences the same sorts of communications between brain parts. For example a lot of tryptamines like the mushroom alkaloids seem to trigger face-recognition and lifeform / sentience recognition systems in the brain, which would lead to us seeing faces in the trees, or feel a presence, or experience a building as a being or person who is swaying or dancing and can even have emotional traits.

 

[porkstock]

yes the sense of time is disrupted because each moment is fading more slowly than usual on psychedelic.
this above all produces the effects you get,
richer color - previous images layered with current visual sense
trails and tracers - a series of previous images (not yet faded fully) blending together to make a momentary take that has many momentary positions.
richer sensation in body - same (layered touch while moments fade more slowly)

as for sense of time passing that is very easily disrupted since we note the passing of moments and moments are stacking up and still active though normally long past their due date.

ergo

something happened and you are aware of it, but you are still immersed with something a few moments ago but it is still happening as if it is just fresh (not faded) so you have both but are more involved with a previous than a current (you are sliding down into the stack of time or moments) this gives rise to the apparent awareness before awareness...
deja vu even.

one fun test when this is happening is to keep youre eyes open and turn around in one spot...
you get to see 360 degrees around you... it is fascinating.

i just have to say this is a great post.

you just described many of my visuals very accurately. that's the reason why you are able to kinda influence your visuals to go a certain way, or "make things grow" for example.

 

[Solipsis]

Yeah actually I was planning on starting a thread on 360 degree visions. When that happens (which it did a number of times mostly on LSD, but also once on LSA's) I can retain visual information and integrate it into a 3D model. People say that we already see 3D normally but that is not entirely true, we do see some depth stereoscopically and we can have a model of say the layout of our house in our minds which allows us to navigate it very smoothly, but that experience can be much enhanced beyond that.

When time and space are experienced in a dilated way because our attention is stretched or warped it can for example allow us to see different sides of an object at once which is impossible to do from a single point of perspective.

There is a book by Oliver Sacks called "anthropologist from Mars", which involves one of his patients (he is a neurologist) who after some episode experienced a vivid 'memory' of a village, modelled and simulated that this patient could paint from not only a lot of perspectives but also with combined perspectives.
So this is a mode of the mind that can apparently be unlocked under special circumstances, like the shaders on a videocard.