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Ketamine synthesis from black pepper drugs.

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[Moved from OD to N&PD]

You can in theory obtain the piperidine necessary for PCP synthesis via hydrolysis of piperine (extracted from black pepper).

Ketamine synthesis is trickier.

We don't have detailed synthesis discussions on bluelight but based on the nature of your question its pretty clear that there is no risk of this escalating into a detailed discussion.

In a purely theoretical sense maybe others in N&PD can answer this better than I can.
 
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Technically, the black pepper compounds are not even alkaloids, they're amides. Most PCP is probably made from piperidine because it's not a gas at room temperature like the alternatives, methylamine and ethylamine.
 
polymath said:
Technically, the black pepper compounds are not even alkaloids, they're amides. Most PCP is probably made from piperidine because it's not a gas at room temperature like the alternatives, methylamine and ethylamine.
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Yeah you’re right.
 
The Chinese will sell you any amount of piperidine. But on the labels, it will be listed as 'N-mehyl pyrrolidine), a pretty common solvent.
 
Drugs from pepper lol, I've heard of people taking spoonfuls of nutmeg to get high is this similar? Next those idiots will be taking pepper, or trying to snort it making themselves sneeze lol
 
Flower Fairy said:
Drugs from pepper lol, I've heard of people taking spoonfuls of nutmeg to get high is this similar? Next those idiots will be taking pepper, or trying to snort it making themselves sneeze lol
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Black pepper does contain this endocannabinoid reuptake inhibitor, but you'd have to extract it from a very large amount of pepper and take it by injection for it to have any effect. There are also grapefruit-like enzyme inhibitors in it, as well as mild MAO-A and B inhibitors (but not effective enough to have any real use without chemical modification).

The mechanism of action of nutmeg remains unknown; it can have something to do with endocannabinoids, too. Some people initially like the nutmeg high, but it quickly becomes unpleasant after using it too often.
 
polymath said:
The mechanism of action of nutmeg remains unknown; it can have something to do with endocannabinoids, too. Some people initially like the nutmeg high, but it quickly becomes unpleasant after using it too often.
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The active ingredient in nutmeg is myristicin, which can be and is metabolized to MMDA (3-methoxy-4,5-methylenedioxyamphetamine; 5-methoxy-MDA) but either only in part of the population or only partually / in individually, liver enzyme dependent amount - afaik.

This is what wikipedia has to say about:

Nutmeg
In low doses, nutmeg produces no noticeable physiological or neurological response, but in large doses, both raw nutmeg freshly ground from kernels, as well as nutmeg oil, have psychoactive effects,[2][27][16] which appear to derive from anticholinergic-like hallucinogenic mechanisms attributed to myristicin and elemicin.[16][28] Myristicin—a monoamine oxidase inhibitor and psychoactive substance[2][16]—can induce convulsions, palpitations, nausea, eventual dehydration, and generalized body pain when consumed in large amounts.[2][27] Nutmeg poisonings occur by accidental consumption in children and by intentional recreational use.[16]

Varying considerably from person to person, nutmeg intoxication may occur with side effects, such as delirium, anxiety, confusion, headaches, nausea, dizziness, dry mouth, eye irritation, or amnesia.[2][16] Intoxication takes several hours before maximum effect is experienced.[2] The effects of nutmeg intoxication may last for several days.[16][27]

Although rarely reported, nutmeg overdose can result in death, especially if combined with other drugs.[16] Incidents of fatal poisoning from nutmeg or myristicin individually are uncommon.[2]
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Myristicin
The psychotropic potential of myristicin is believed to emerge when it is metabolized into MMDA, an amphetamine derivative that is reported to have a more potent hallucinogenic effect than mescaline.[2] There is more research needed on the exact mechanism of action of myristicin in the body. Documented symptoms include anxiety, fear, a sense of impending doom, detachment from reality, acute psychotic episodes, visual hallucinations (time, color, or space distortions) and hostile, combative, agitated behavior. There have been cases of prolonged use leading to chronic psychosis.[13]

Brief Overview of Chemical Synthesis: Myristicin to MMDMA[3]
With a chemical structure resembling amphetamines and other precursors, myristicin can also be used to synthesize illicit hallucinogenic drugs. Under controlled conditions, myristicin isolated from nutmeg oil can be converted into MMDMA, a synthetic "designer drug" amphetamine derivative that is less potent than MDMA but produces comparable stimulant and hallucinogenic effects.[3] A 400 mg dose of myristicin has been shown to produce “mild cerebral stimulation” in 4 out of 10 human subjects. Myristicin is most commonly consumed in nutmeg, and 400 mg would be contained in approximately 15 g of nutmeg powder. However, at a minimum dose of about 5 g of nutmeg powder, symptoms of nutmeg intoxication can begin to emerge, indicating the interaction of other compounds contained in nutmeg.[8] Elemicin and Safrole are also components of nutmeg that, while at lower concentrations than myristicin, are thought to contribute to the hallucinogenic and physiological symptoms of nutmeg intoxication.[14]
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The conversion of myristicin to MMDA has been shown to happen only in vitro in rabbit liver, not in human.
 
polymath said:
Black pepper does contain this endocannabinoid reuptake inhibitor, but you'd have to extract it from a very large amount of pepper and take it by injection for it to have any effect. There are also grapefruit-like enzyme inhibitors in it, as well as mild MAO-A and B inhibitors (but not effective enough to have any real use without chemical modification).

The mechanism of action of nutmeg remains unknown; it can have something to do with endocannabinoids, too. Some people initially like the nutmeg high, but it quickly becomes unpleasant after using it too often.
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Derailed.
 
polymath said:
Technically, the black pepper compounds are not even alkaloids, they're amides. Most PCP is probably made from piperidine because it's not a gas at room temperature like the alternatives, methylamine and ethylamine.
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What do you mean?
 
X11400 said:
How and which enzymes are involved/inhibited?
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This was mentioned somewhere in A. Shulgin's book Pihkal, without specifying the enzymes that cause it.

This thread seems to be going to a direction where it's better be closed.
 
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