Ketamine - psychological effects of binges versus more controlled dosing

[Vastness]

Those of you who have used Ketamine, and who have binged on it (for purposes of discussion, let's call a "binge" using it on 2 or more consecutive days, and on those days for several hours at a time, with multiple redoses and large, K-hole or close to K-hole doses) - what have you found the psychological effects to be in the immediate aftermath, either positive or negative, and how long did it take you to return to baseline after this?

I'm curious because although I am well aware that Ketamine is being researched for treatment of depression, with controlled, measured doses, it has been my experience using Ketamine recreationally that there is a point at which it starts to feel like quite a psychologically harmful drug. Perhaps this sounds obvious, and obviously the potential negatives of getting too deep into Ketamine are well known, even apart from the physical danger of bladder damage, and the apparent propensity of it to begin to induce strange delusions in frequent users...

But I am wondering, where exactly is the line between harmless or even "beneficial" Ketamine use and usage which, even if it does not develop into an actual dependence, is still psychologically harmful?

Those of you who do use Ketamine semi-regularly, how many of you consider it to have no negative effects whatsoever, or even positive effects, and how many of you consider it to be a guilty pleasure type drug, for lack of a better description, that you continue to use even though you know it is probably doing you harm?


Personally, I have had many good times on Ketamine, and I do consider it to be a beautiful substance still, but I am beginning to think that the multi-day K-hole filled binges I allow myself to indulge in a few times a year are, potentially, not as harmless as I would like to believe that they are.

 

[g0to]

They've always been mentally positive. IME the only time I've seen people become physically dependent is when they're going through ALOT of it, say, 25+ grams or even more. And even then I think that was just a psychological addiction (hoofing up a 500mg line for breakfast and appearing "normal", if a bit droopy eyed, type of habit). If it's abused in that fashion though, it sure does open up the road to abuse of physically addictive drugs (opiates, etc). The intent with which it's taken matters to a much greater extent than with something like opiates in terms of developing a dependency.

For some people, ketamine just seems to work REALLY well i.e.: hits all the receptors in one way or another. The eye-opening psychedelic, the stimulant-like afterglow/effect felt in low doses, the euphoric depressant, the mind-jarring dissociative... it's like an all in one package. Others, for whatever reason, hate it.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Vastness, can you elaborate on what the negative psychological symptoms are? I've never binged much on ketamine, but MXE and 3meopcp i have. psychologically i always felt better the following week or so after some heavy use.

i was wondering about this earlier today, that if dissociatve use helped or hurt my psyche. after my disso use ld eventually regress to my steaming pile of misery or moody default state, which i'm wondering i default to because of so much drugs and i've damaged my psyche...theres no way to know since i have been abusing one drug or another heavily for 16 years going back to teenage years so i have no idea if i'm just normally psychologically damaged or it was all the drug abuse.

 

[Vastness]

^ Sure, the negative effects are basically increased feelings of irritability, depression, apathy... thinking about it, it's quite possible that they are mostly related to the fact that I know I either can't or just shouldn't continue doing K, when that's probably what I really want to do at the time. But I have definitely experienced waking up after a night of doing a bunch of Ketamine and feeling sluggish, having no energy... this can probably be explained by forgetting to eat properly while binging, and also for the disruption in sleep architecture which K can apparently cause.

To be honest my own baseline is not exactly a steaming pile of sunlight and rainbows anyway so it's hard for me as well to separate drug induced feelings of badness from just ingrained tendencies to think negatively about things... but my gut feeling is that K and other dissociatives do not have good aftereffects for me psychologically, as much as I enjoy them at the time. That said, this could obviously apply to a whole bunch of drugs so K is not too unusual in this sense... interesting to hear your own experience though, g0to, I guess everyone's brain really is just wired a little differently.

Thank you both for your responses.

 

[smash016]

Taking bumps in the club or at festivals, sometimes up to 5 or 6 bumps over the course of a few hours, in my case have only led to some general absent-mindedness the next day, some lapses of memory. Sometimes I feel like it's cumulative to some extent, with the effects becoming more prevalent but my ketamine use not increasing, but I can't be sure. General mood the next day is such that I can attest to the antidepressant qualities of K -- very good, considering the hangover.

Also, I got a bad batch of K recently that forced me snort large amounts to get any decent kind of K rush, and I *might* be experiencing very slight K cramps since then, although that would seem strange as my K use really is recreational, irregular, and "bumps only". I mean like every few weeks, at most. More like a few times a year.

 

[g0to]

You know, the big thing about ket-heads, is they don't remember the irritability, apathy, and depression when they're not on it but still dosing whenever they can. I was moreso talking from the perspective of, a ket-hard-head, that hasn't any engagements or responsibilities or anything like that for weeks on end, and ends up going through ounces. For an "up and coming" k-addict, its like, those negative side effects and episodes of extremely bad mood etc, it's truely erased from their memory, and kind of a side show to the main attraction. Sort of like meth+benzo heads, except that's even more brain damaging and long lasting, taxing on the body etc.

Around here, either K has been abundant in large amounts IE: enough for a single person to stay high for about a year, or nonexistant.

These days with the scene being how it is, I much prefer something like sparingly using 2-o-pcm (dck) or 2-o-pce(haven't tried in a full-on dose yet but plan on it). Much more powerful chemicals mg-for-mg, no redosing needed i.e.: you will stay good and high for a few hours whether you like it or not, as opposed to the glancing blow that is a half point or less line of racemic ket; some batches might not be as "clean" etc but then again this isn't something I plan on hoofing grams on at a time. YMMV.