Misc Kava + caffeine, potentiation or synergy?

[BourbonMac]

So, I know kava inhibits the enzyme responsible for breaking down caffeine, effectively potentiating it. However, it seems like they both potentiate each other, for me. I can't find any reports of people experiencing this. I just can't forgot my first 6g dose last week with a 100mg caf, 200mg L-theanine and it was just blissful, and the afterglow the next day was one of the best feelings I've ever had. Clearly it had more to do with caffeine, I mean I went to bed fine. That feeling in the morning I could tell was distinctly kava. All drugs give me an "aroma" so to speak, like a taste in the back of my throat or back of my nose. So a Valium tablet, you might know how that tastes, will be something I taste when it's kicked in. Kratom is the same way, even things like ibuprofen do this (although, once I get used to taking it, this stops).

Anyone have any experience with this combo with similar effects? I got the true full extreme sedation off 15g on Saturday. Bumping into walls and shit, coordination totally gone, just feeling like I could pass out. I think loa waka is just too sedating, it was said to be the strongest, but I think I want to try a more stimulating strain. This doesn't seem to be like kratom where it's either good or bad (the whole vein thing is basically a myth, but I'm sure most people already know that). I mean kratom strains can have mild differences, white vein does have a slight stimulating edge because the veins/bones are added into the powder.

But yeah if anyone had experienced this type of feeling of potentiation on both ends, I'd be curious to hear about it. Perhaps it was just pure synergy, the caffeine offset the sedation, but it was such a low dose (micronized). I just took 10g without caffeine and feel pretty sedated. It does seem like staggering it is generally the way to go to keep the effects going. I did this last time, started with 12g and then did 3g roughly an hour later. The previous time, I felt it for like 45 minutes, whereas last time it was hours until I passed out. The thing with the synergy though, it doesn't explain the profound afterglow the next day. Caffeine does nothing to me normally, even 300mg I can drink and it'll just make me tired.

Also I have capsules, 250mg of kava root or "piper methysticum" which I'd taken the time it didn't work for long. Would there be any reason this'd take away the effects of the kava? I can at least say the 10g isn't hitting me too hard. The caps have 35% kavalactones, micronized isn't specified even by the vendor, but I assume it'd be higher or is irrelevant. I used to have 75% kavalactone capsules and it was liquid inside of caps.

I know I've posted like 3 kava threads already but this one I'm just really curious about lol. I like the stuff, a lot more than phenibut which is just too overwhelming. I'd been experimenting with that a bit but God, that brain fog and fatigue the next day, and that "dirty" feeling high, although pretty nice, just wasn't it. I like my drugs natural.

 

[BourbonMac]

So I'm bumping this just to say, wow, this combo is a CRITICAL HIT for headaches due to the potentiation of caffeine, but also kava being a great anti-inflammatory.

I had one of the worst headaches of my life all evening, and after I downed some kava, it went way down, then I took the caffeine tablet. In the future I'll have to take more L-theanine on the side because I did get a bit jittery, as if I had more than 100mg of caffeine. I figured the 200mg L-theanine would balance this out and it does, but only for doses around 5-7g it seems. That's what I did the first time, took about 7g and one of the caffeine tablets and I felt blissful, even next day.

I took 10.5, and redosed 4.5 an hourish later, like 40 minutes ago. I probably could've avoided the caffeine altogether because the kava alone seemed to do a pretty good job. If anyone has followed my posts, you'd know I've been having the most hellish headaches of my life lately, likely from my wisdo teeth, but tough to say. I did a sinus rinse and that initially brought down the pain a lot, so it could be a combo of both. Either way I need the fuckers out.

Definitely going to have to lower the caffeine does if I wanna take 10-15g, like 50-60mg of caffeine, at least if I've got a headache. Midol, the med for periods is great for guys too because it's the only tylenol/caffeine drug on the market and caffeine boosts the effect of tylenol. That stuff has 60mg of caffeine, and a low dose of some antihistamine like Benadryl (for the period cramps, I guess?).

I also post this as a warning in a way, because it is definitely a bit uncomfortable even if I feel pretty good and my headache was obliterated. L-theanine is a must if you combine the two, at least 400mg or more, because kava REALLY potentiates caffeine, they kind of potentiate each other, in a way. Regardless, my headache which nothing helped and I was about to try 2 codeine for was destroyed and I'm quite glad about that. I really didn't want to take any opiates for this.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @BourbonMac

I'm not really sure what I would say about this. We know that Kava and its alkaloids like Mitragynine are less-studied than a lot of the other commonly used Opioids, so it's difficult to say. Caffeine on its own is known to be a good treatment for headaches for many people. In the United States, there is a brand called Excedrin that contains (I think Paracetamol) and Caffeine and a lot of people rely on it.

I think it's probably just a matter of personal preference, but I'm sure there could be a less subjective cause.