just wondering if this is a myth...

[xtcgrrrl]

I enjoy heroin (snorted) and crack used together, however as a kid when they taught us those drug prevention lessons, they always said that people die from mixing "uppers" and "downers." I know a lot of people enjoy this same combination. I was just wondering if there was any truth to this?

 

[Effect]

It's a myth to an extent. If the dosages are kept well within the tolerance of the user for each drug then these types of combos can be experienced with relative safety and without the risk of "sure death from sending mixed signals to the heart".

There are definitely variables to this, but in general, those who are relatively healthy individuals without and predisposed risk factors can definitely partake in a mixture of let's say an amphetamine and an opiate.

Now I'm not recommending this or saying that an inexperienced user with low drug tolerances should go a inject a large speedball, but rather I'm staying that these type of combos do not mean certain death and can be done safely from a harm reduction standpoint.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

if you OD on heroin the stimulant will keep you awake...until it wears off then you pass out from the heroin od

 

[xtcgrrrl]

thanks for the quick replies. I tend to keep my crack/heroin mix to maybe 3-4 bags of crack (the small ones - I know, no prices, but people will know what I mean) and then two bags of H, spaced out well, for the comedown. That's well within my tolerance and it helps to keep me from blowing my paycheck every week. I make sure to generally only partake on weekends or festive occasions. Thanks for the replies.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

if you OD on heroin the stimulant will keep you awake...until it wears off then you pass out from the heroin od

This, you can underestimate the downer and take too much, or you get a heart attack

OD -> BDD

 

[JessFR]

I'm on an upper (methamphetamine) and a downer (heroin and valium) right now, isn't the first time and I'm still alive.

So yes, the idea that there's some inheirent interaction that somehow makes them more dangerous inherently isn't entirely true.

But, there is a big danger that has killed a few people to be had here by taking shit like this together. I'm only alive because I have a very high heroin tolerance, I didn't take much valium, and had very VERY little crystal meth, and didn't do them all at once.

The big things you need to watch out for.

1. You need to be experienced in all the drugs you're screwing with, their effects on you and their duration of action.
2. Cocaine and powerful downers like heroin are one or the biggest risks. The problem is the cokes stimulating ettect offsets the effects of the heroin, so you can take too much heroin while on coke, but the coke wears off long before the heroin does, and then suddenly the effect the heroins having on you suddenly increases, potentially causing an overdose

It would be less likely with meth and heroin provided they're taken around the same time because meth lasts a lot longer than heroin.

3. Mixing multiple downers together is probably even riskier. I'm talking mixing heroin or other powerful opiates with benzos, like valium, Xanax, etc, and or alcohol together. They all compound on each others effects, and can the potentially cause respiratory arrest (dead).

It's not something to be doing unless you've started small and have experience with everything you're doing in isolation. The important part is not to do significantly more of a downer than you normally would while under the influence of an upper, and especially if the upper will wear off before the downer.

And of you're mixing downers, you need to be very careful. Start with one at a time and slowly build experience using other downrrs with it.

Most people I know, myself included,only use benzos like valium with heroin because our heroin tolerance is too high to get a good high ot if it otherwise. In the early days there's no need. And it's much safer in the early days if you confine yourself to only one drug at a time.

And I only use meth with it very very occasionally. Once every couple weeks at most generally to do productive work on it while not being either sick from not having heroin,or too sedated from having heroin. It also feels pretty good but again, I only do the tiniest amount of meth and only infrequently.

The vast majority of the time I stick to just my drug of choice, heroin, and mix nothing with it. And leave a wide margin for error mixing anything with it. For example I won't suddenly take a bunch of valium or something with it when I haven't before. At most I might to a little more than I've safely done previously.

Stay safe out there man.

 

[Ilove2nod]

It is not exactly a myth.. I have had a few friends overdose on this exact combination, by using too much of one or the other... and they had a heart attack and died.. it was horrible.. but I once almost died myself, mixing not heroin, but oxy with crack, along with another CNS depressant which was klonopin, and that makes things much more dangerous.. opioids of any kind(mainly strong ones), mixed with coke/crack and benzos.. I was smoking crack and had sniffed about 150-200mg of oxy while also smoking another at least 100mg of oxy too, along with and between crack hits... and I had taken about 4-5mg of klonopin throughout that day and night... well I got extremely lucky because I almost died for sure, I blacked out once after way too much of both drugs were being smoked the oxy on foil chasing the dragon, and the very strong crack I was smoking... I took a hit of oxy, after about a G of crack or more, had been consumed at that point, and just blacked out, fell down and hit my head on my dresser... woke up feeling very strange, like I had no idea what just happened, say the giant bruise on my head and my lips took on a purpleish coloration and skin became very pale.. I was scared, but also very high, so being the addict I was, continued to smoke the crack and oxy... and well this time, I got VERY lucky.. I had invited a very good friend of mine over, and he was a good enough friend, and the only one who knew where my hidden house key was outside, well when I took either another hit of crack or oxy, I believe it was a hit of crack this time, I again fell down and collapsed... was out for a good minute, and I awoke from complete darkness and not having a clue, again what was going on, in my cold shower, with my friend giving me CPR... and I just popped up like WTF! what are you doing motherfucker! I was pissed at first! lol.. I told him to get the fuck off of me, not having any idea I had literally just died for about 30 secs- a minute and miraculously my friend had let himself in when I was passed out, not answering my phone or door... he saved my life, and after I found out what had happened, I thanked him! very much! so I never did that combo again after that... I did stupidly mix coke/crack with opioids, but didn't mix them both with a benzo after that.. if so it wasn't much, just like 1mg or less of any given benzo, usually kpin or Xanax at that time... So yes.. its not a myth, and you can totally get away with doing that, most of the time, ONLY IF you don't do too much of either one... or aren't totally opiate naïve or whatever... be safe! and don't let yourself to too much!

 

[pinch1]

Sensible, well-worded post by JessFR. For the OP, the combination of H and coke at least is known as a speedball, it's what killed John Belushi, Chris Farley, and one of the greatest artists of our age, Jean Michel Basquiat, who was involved with 3D, one of the founding members of Massive Attack, who has been ID'ed (apparently incorrectly) as Banksy . . . degrees of separation are cool. One of the best known collectors of Basquiat paintings is some guy named Lars Ulrich . . . and by total coincidence both Metallica and Massive Attack are putting out new albums after along hiatus . . .

 

[Keif' Richards]

Definitely not a myth. The practice is very dangerous. I think the "Myth" might be just an exaggeration of just how dangerous the practice is. Like a lot of overdoses, problems generally occur when the user is escalating their dosages into the extreme. The famous people that you here about who died from speedballing, like Belushi or Farley for instance, were addicts. They were'nt occasional drug-takers who enjoyed an occasional speedball.

People's addictions lead them into excessively high dosages. Pretty soon they're taking doses in a single sitting that they never would have dreamed of. Usually they're fine and they don't have any complications. Maybe they wake up one morning and say, I really haven't been getting high like I used to, I'm gonna do a big one to recapture that feeling. At this point, maybe they got some abnormally strong dope or maybe it's purely their own fault in misjudging their dose.

At any rate, the combination generally kills through respiratory depression as a result of Opioid intoxication. When Cocaine and Heroin/Opioids are taken in tandem, both drugs are experienced at once, but Cocaine, with it's much shorter half-life when compared to most Opioids, will wear off long before the Opioid does. In this instance, it's actually the Cocaine's ability to stimulate the Central Nervous System that keeps the user alive. By increasing heart rate, blood pressure and in turn, rate of respiration, the user stays alive.

But, when the Cocaine wears off, which takes a few short minutes, the user is no longer "protected" from the depressant effects of the Opioid. Heart rate slows as does respiratory function. The user typically dies from Hypoxia as a result of respiratory collapse. So case in point, it can be a very dangerous practice, but like other instances of overdose death, it generally only occurs when people are taking truly excessive doses.

 

[KSoft]

Drug interactions are scary business and I know that not all drugs lead to deadly interactions but I just can't wrap my head around the fact that there are those who are willing to go to higher lengths to create a much more enjoyable high while at the same time fooling themselves based on subjective factors like "tolerance" and risking their lives in the process. How about not mixing any drugs at all? Just because this guy is still breathing, that doesn't mean his body can speak for yours. For factors like first timer tolerance, the margin of error is so high that we are safe to say those who aren't dead are just the lucky ones (remember the dead ones too!)
The brain and the body are chaotic systems which means any of those drugs can interact with each other in various ways without our knowledge in subtle ways creating vulnerabilities without actually killing you on the spot.

 

[keeping]

Drug interactions are scary business and I know that not all drugs lead to deadly interactions but I just can't wrap my head around the fact that there are those who are willing to go to higher lengths to create a much more enjoyable high while at the same time fooling themselves based on subjective factors like "tolerance" and risking their lives in the process.

come on man, you can't really be that naive?
its this little thing called addiction,

 

[Vastness]

Cocaine/crack is an especially dangerous one because it's pretty toxic already and generally does not mix well with anything from a biological/health standpoint. I saw a study a little while ago which suggested that opiates when combined with cocaine actually increase the risk of a serious cardiac event even while the opiate is still active, despite the fact that the opposite might seem more likely to be true given that the opiate would probably counter the increased heart rate.

 

[xtcgrrrl]

Ok, this is scaring me. I just got some crack today and did my usual amount and followed it with ONE bag of dope just to get to sleep. And now all I can think is: "omg I'm gonna die I don't want to die now!"

 

[bomber]

When I use a stim, Im gonna use much more downers than if I took downers alone. This can lead to an o.d. if you ain't carefull enough. Morever it seems to be bad for the heart. I mean, 2 things affect the way it works in different ways the same time. It sounds like hamfull and dangerous.