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Isophenidine

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Isophenidine. It's higher-trapping than the current modified diphenyl ethanamines, has stimulat properties (see lefetamine - a prodrug) and if you make the sulfate salt, it's soluble enough to snort. Felt just like K to us but only had 1g to sample. Anyone else tried Isophenidine? It's very like K, but the supplier is reticent about making it available to all. Maybe they have a lot of the poor, piperidine analogs to sell before they make it widely available.

BTW - I'm not a shill, I don't work for anyone and a sample of 2 people is nowhere near enough so a)Toxicity & b)YMMV. That's why I'm asking if anyone else has sampled so we can build a consensus.
 
Someone who tried it said it worked even better than Ephenidine. I'll try to get my hands on it so I can compare them myself.
 
No - lefetamine, SPA (化学名) was sold as a 'pick me up', not as as an opioid and norlefetamine is the stimulant. I know N-isopropyl amphetamine isn't nearly as strong as plain, N-methyl or even N-ethyl BUT it IS a stimulant unlike the piperidine ring versions. The higher trapping means much trippiness at sub-anesthetic doses. AFAIK, people have been taking huge doses and it's only while going under & coming out that they get the (roughly) desired effect.

Without going into detail, it's obvious that a RT reaction will make it in a single step and I have a perfect one (all grads will face palm but look at the Green Chemistry award for Sertraline).

We could walk (wobbly) and we got the full range of K-like effects (touching fingers and thinking we were 1 body, euphoria and the full mental-maze states from doses of 75-125mg.
 
Those doses were insufflated? Could you give a bit more detail? Like onset time, duration, etc.
 
Onset - 5 minutes, duration 4 hours with an easy comedown. Unlike the PCA class, the plain amine -NH2 is inactive so duration is limited by hydroxylation of the benzene rings (LogP drops so it leaves the brain) and N-dealkylation.

It's certainly much faster on and off, stimulating so you have energy and euphoria and low dose (50-75mg) gives the K wobblies and happiness, 125mg gives the full 'machine code of the mind' with the classic breakdown in logic. I saw a bird and thought 'if I cover my eyes, it can't see me' and such. Your left with enough sense to get out of immediate danger (like a fire) and stops you doing dumb things like running into traffic.

As I stated, it's higher trapping than the piperidine analogues. If you overlay it with DXM, 1 aromatic covers the DXM aromatic, the other covers the C-ring with the amine (and specifically the lone-pair) in the right place. Similarly, it overlays MK-801 but, being flexible, it's NOT the lowest energy-state that binds BUT the difference in energy levels is only a few calories/mole so the heat of the body is enough to overcome conformational isomerism.
 
Update - one to make the chemists laugh. They aren't making it because 'it is not possible to make in bulk'.... Now, since the 'bucket' method would work, this seems more like an excuse because it would be batch and not production line. It only has to form an imine so even NaOH will remove the water! Anyone who was in the Hive would scoff at such an incredible lack of ability... or laziness (NB lazy, French chemist)
 
You attempt to define what you mean by "higher trapping" a few times apparently, yet I don't really get it... Do you mean higher affinity binding wrt allosteric NMDA site? Or more ion trapping in the CSF?

I do not like the one time I used diphenidine, but ephenidine being called K-like really tickles me.. hmmm

Anyway, thank you for the information!
.. yay novel, good fun : P
 
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Solipsis said:
You attempt to define what you mean by "higher trapping" a few times apparently, yet I don't really get it... Do you mean higher affinity binding wrt allosteric NMDA site? Or more ion trapping in the CSF?

I do not like the one time I used diphenidine, but ephenidine being called K-like really tickles me.. hmmm

Anyway, thank you for the information!
.. yay novel, good fun : P
Click to expand...

Tasting again. Trapping is an ionic-term if memory serves. I discovered that the sulfate salt is about x10 more soluble than the hydrochloride so you can snort the stuff, that it's the increased DRI activity that lifts if from the 'monged out/forgot everything experience and that both the a & b rings are amenable to substitution. A 2-Cl-5-MeO moiety on the a-ring and a p-Me on the b-ring gives you something shorter acting, more stimulating and has it's own unique effects (AFAIK). It blocks proprioception even at moderate doses. Hold hands (or any other body-to-body touching) means you suddenly don't know where you end and the other person begins.....

It has it's place... with foxy IMO.
 
Interesting. I've heard nothing bad about this one, as of yet, never tried it myself however.

Although batch scale rather than plant-scale, is my thing anyway, since I'm not working for the chinese (not that I would, given experience with fr.ex some of their hotplates and the likes)

As for N-isopropylamphetamine, I've never made it, but last I read it was something like 1/5th or less, of the potency of the primary amine. Massive drop in dopaminergic effects, so by the time one got anywhere at all with it, it'd probably cause so much in the way of peripheral side effects as to be absolutely horrendous.

Bugger that. N-ethylamphetamine on the other hand is actually quite nice stuff IMO, I prefer it to either amphetamine or meth (in either case, not street crap. although I've never had street meth, to my knowledge). Even the racemate, is a lot smoother a ride. Been itching to try the D-enantiomer, either via resolution of the racemate with chiral tartaric acid, or an enantiopure biosynthesis using Brevibacterium linens (limburger cheese 'red smear' bacterium, so cultures will be quite available, apparently up to 10-12g/l based on benzaldehyde can be tolerated. Not bad for a biosynth. And improved further if encapsulation either in alginate, or, so I've been told, mineral oil emulsions with a solid skin, is used.)
 
Do you actually mean biosynthesis per se or more like the bacterium metabolizes only one enantiomere, effectively purifying the other?
 
clubcard said:
It blocks proprioception even at moderate doses. Hold hands (or any other body-to-body touching) means you suddenly don't know where you end and the other person begins.....
Click to expand...
Oh how I LOVE this sort of effect ... when hanging around with the right people, that is, and I don't have them usually.... :( but it's on my top list of drug effects nevertheless.
 
I am not really up to date on this but is availability of isophenidine still much more limited compared to diphenidine and (what seems to be most prevalent) MXP? Why is that (without going too much into a sourcing direction), i thought it's supposed to be one of the best in this series with maybe ephenidine after?

The effect on proprioception is interesting and might suggest especially good potential for people with body dysmorphic problems including phantom limb pain.

I also wonder what the effect could be of adjunct of such compounds to VR treatment of people with anorexia, to try and help reset body image.. Although i'm not sure how different this kind of body image is to the body brain mapping as in phantom limb pain.
 
It's also nice for people with social trauma / anxiety disorder I'd say.. cause the effect on proprioception might well correlate IMHO with anxiolysis, loosening of borders (MXE, O-PCM were good at this for me) ... yeah VR treatment for social anxiety would be so nice, yet possible with today's tech - 4K AMOLED VR plus full body suit (like this maybe not unlike modern trip tank setting) and AI or specialized digital counseling for exposition treatment & gradual re-learning facilitated by dissociatives - with ketamine getting available for depression it'd be just one more step! Interesting times for sure. Always wanted to combine things like VR and dissociatives into one hell of a multi-dimensional modern experience :)

Stopped experimenting with the *phenidines after ephenidine was super-weird, made me melt into tears somehow... sharp contrast to that "barrel of laughs" with the arylcyclohexylamines but maybe I should try again, certainly will if isophenidine becomes available in the EU ...
 
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So you are basically saying that isophenidine and diphenidine behave differently, although they are quite similar in terms of the structure.
 
How would anybody who's sampled diarylethylamines compare them to PCP and its analogs? I've recently fallen in love with 3-MeO-PCP for its capacity to induce mania (it helps my baseline depression tremendously) but it's growing increasingly harder to find.
 
Esperighanto said:
How would anybody who's sampled diarylethylamines compare them to PCP and its analogs? I've recently fallen in love with 3-MeO-PCP for its capacity to induce mania (it helps my baseline depression tremendously) but it's growing increasingly harder to find.
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IMO none of the diarylethylamines are very similar to arylcyclohexyl's really, although the one this thread is about would seem to be the closest, by the sounds of it.

Ephenidine was probably my favourite out of the big 3 although I think if I had to pick one that was closer to 3-MeO-PCP I'd probably go with diphenidine. There is some capacity for mania as well as some potentially sketchy delusions of sobriety, but 3-MeO-PCP already has that in spades...

I can't remember exactly why now but I remember thinking diphenidine had a kinda bad reputation for some reason, maybe there's some reason for that although I didn't personally find it less dangerous than any 3-x-PCx. That said I do have an intuitive sense that maybe ephenidine is a little safer, I did very much enjoy a few experiences I had on it- the multiple hour come-ups especially. But I wouldn't say it's mania inducing, usually.
 
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