I've only smoked Indian Warrior (Pedicularis Densiflora) a couple times but I like the high.
Then I recently read this report from another forum where a poster claims that the alkaloids present in it can "cause tumor and liver damage at 1mgkg" when used regularly.
Here is the link and then I'll follow up with some questions:
"Be sure to include some whole milk in your tea. Most of the pyrrolizidine alkaloids are lipophilic and it would aid in absorption. You're risking a higher hepatoxicity when ingesting orally as apposed to smoking. Not to mention a broader spectrum of additional chemicals from the plant matter not inhaled while smoking. Start small.
Pyrrolizidine alkaloids have an LD50 of anywhere between 30 and 300mg/kg of body weight (mgkg). Tumors, liver damage, and a host of other ailments are seen at 1mgkg when used on a regular basis. It also damages chromosomes in many mammals with regular use. I refer you to Alkaloids by Aniszewski. Just be careful homie. "
After this the poster he is talking to messages back that he is thinking twice about trying Indian Warrior now and this guy responds again:
First of all, I am going to doubt if anyone knows whether or not this is true but what does an "LD50" mean?
What does "at 1mgkg" mean?
Does that refer to the amount being consumed?
This guy refers to someone named Aniszewski.
Has anyone heard of him/her before or read anything written by him? (I'll see if I can located whatever was written by this person online and source it)
And how would anyone know whether or not it "damages chromosomes with regular use if it has never been used regularly by anyone most likely who has bothered to report it??
Also, what does it mean when he says "the LD50 of mitragynine is not that different" from the alkaloids in Indian Warrior?
Is he saying that Indian Warrior is not that much worse for one's liver than Kratom??
And overall, do people who know anything about chemistry/drugs think it sounds like this guy knows what he is talking about and does he make it sound like Indian Warrior is something that should not be used recreationally??
I came to the tentative conclusion before that MOST (but not all) of the time that an herb is pleasant to smoke and does not seem to have any negative external health effects that it probably is not highly toxic because USUALLY you'd start to see some negative external effects pretty quickly if it was REALLY HORRIBLE for you.
I reported that this herb smokes VERY smoothely, doesn't make me cough, tastes great, and has a mild but pleasant high associated with it and seems to have no negative side effects to me.
USUALLY it would SEEM like something like that wouldn't be likely to cause tumors and liver damage, but who knows because afterall, tobacco seems pretty harmless but is one of those silent killers...
Just curious what people think about what this guy is saying since such little is known about Indian Warrior.
Then I recently read this report from another forum where a poster claims that the alkaloids present in it can "cause tumor and liver damage at 1mgkg" when used regularly.
Here is the link and then I'll follow up with some questions:
"Be sure to include some whole milk in your tea. Most of the pyrrolizidine alkaloids are lipophilic and it would aid in absorption. You're risking a higher hepatoxicity when ingesting orally as apposed to smoking. Not to mention a broader spectrum of additional chemicals from the plant matter not inhaled while smoking. Start small.
Pyrrolizidine alkaloids have an LD50 of anywhere between 30 and 300mg/kg of body weight (mgkg). Tumors, liver damage, and a host of other ailments are seen at 1mgkg when used on a regular basis. It also damages chromosomes in many mammals with regular use. I refer you to Alkaloids by Aniszewski. Just be careful homie. "
After this the poster he is talking to messages back that he is thinking twice about trying Indian Warrior now and this guy responds again:
"I've decided against oral use. I'm very careful when it comes to health. I don't drink alcohol or smoke because I value my physical health. I'm not willing to put my liver through Pedicularis tea. A psychoactive effect isn't worth the damage."
"I can understand. In contrast, the LD50 of mitragynine and other kratom alkaloids is around 173mg/kg. That's not that much different than the pyrrolizidine alkaloids. The key is moderation. Your liver isn't going to last forever. You want a good 70 years or so yeah? Live a colorful existence with as much experience as possible. When your liver ceases to function from good use and old age you'll be happy you didn't try to immortalize it by abstaining. Be safe!"
First of all, I am going to doubt if anyone knows whether or not this is true but what does an "LD50" mean?
What does "at 1mgkg" mean?
Does that refer to the amount being consumed?
This guy refers to someone named Aniszewski.
Has anyone heard of him/her before or read anything written by him? (I'll see if I can located whatever was written by this person online and source it)
And how would anyone know whether or not it "damages chromosomes with regular use if it has never been used regularly by anyone most likely who has bothered to report it??
Also, what does it mean when he says "the LD50 of mitragynine is not that different" from the alkaloids in Indian Warrior?
Is he saying that Indian Warrior is not that much worse for one's liver than Kratom??
And overall, do people who know anything about chemistry/drugs think it sounds like this guy knows what he is talking about and does he make it sound like Indian Warrior is something that should not be used recreationally??
I came to the tentative conclusion before that MOST (but not all) of the time that an herb is pleasant to smoke and does not seem to have any negative external health effects that it probably is not highly toxic because USUALLY you'd start to see some negative external effects pretty quickly if it was REALLY HORRIBLE for you.
I reported that this herb smokes VERY smoothely, doesn't make me cough, tastes great, and has a mild but pleasant high associated with it and seems to have no negative side effects to me.
USUALLY it would SEEM like something like that wouldn't be likely to cause tumors and liver damage, but who knows because afterall, tobacco seems pretty harmless but is one of those silent killers...
Just curious what people think about what this guy is saying since such little is known about Indian Warrior.
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