Is levo-amp & L-methamp as neurotoxic as D?

[Nagelfar]

Since they don't have the same mode of action but same structure, I was wondering about the thread title. Would vicks inhaler or Emsam have the same toxicity long-term as amphetamine and n-methyl amphetamine?

 

[dopamimetic]

I guess one will have physical issues from peripheral stimulation before reaching a potentially neurotoxic level, to me ingesting nasal decongestants doesnt sound appealing to me (knowing that it's not xylometazoline but still. 3-mmc / its 3-methylephedrine[?] metabolite was horrible enough) It's an interesting question, as e.g. opiates habe greatly varying effects between levo and dextro isomer.

Is neurotoxicity even an issue with d-amph? Google states that it requires huge amounts (1.2-3.6g injected) and primary mechanism being hyperthermia. This sounds likely to occur with any stim when you dose enough
With meth afaik it's about free radicals / ROS, are these different terms for the same? Sorry if this is an often asked question.

Wondering about the effects of different isomers of 4-methylaminorex possible to isolate an even better chem a la d-amp?

 

[Nagelfar]

to me ingesting nasal decongestants doesnt sound appealing to me

My reason for asking is possibly getting on selegiline, that has the same metabolite as active in Vicks.

 

[dopamimetic]

With that, don't you get just very low amounts of l-meth that will barely enter the CNS? From reports here afaik half or even whole bottle of vicks is used to get high. Then again selegiline might potentiate that amount

Selegiline and Rasagiline do protect against meth induced damage (there was at least one other paper):

Deprenyl treatment attenuates long-term pre- and post-synaptic changes evoked by chronic methamphetamine.

 

[Nagelfar]

^I've read that deprenyl repairs damage but thought elsewhere someone said it metabolizing into amp makes it negligable. Though one could argue the amounts it metabolizes to are likewise negligable. Anyone familiar with those studies and the practicality of in vivo use chime in from what they can glean from it all?

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I'd say that l-meth/l-amp are less neurotoxic and more peripherally taxing, just as a rough guess, than d-amp. But idk, taking 300mg or whatever it is in l-meth, and I'd imagine some neurotoxicity there.

With oral selegiline metabolites of l-meth/l-amp are low, or else it wouldn't really be used in dementia, per my above educated guess.

With transdermal selegiline (EMSAM) for depression, the levels of l-meth/l-amp are lower than oral usage, that one I do know to be true.

Have yet to hear any anecdotes about d-selegiline. There are a few studies I think...

 

[dopamimetic]

Selegiline is always l when from a pharmacy, never encountered d but at least one report exists somewhere. It must be low levels of metabolites as with d apparently there is some additional stimulation but nothing unbearable. Wonders me how tolerable that cited aid against neurotoxicity would be in humans as, despite that, my guess is that there will be potenciation from mao-b inhibition. Not as bad as with maoi-a but still something powerful, not?

That said, I have tried selegiline in a search for something with antidepressive, stimulant effects and less prone to anxiety, rebound and tolerance than the amps. Found it odd, like it amplified my impulsitivity with sometimes feeling nothing at all, sometimes like increased feelings of tension (sth I get easily, e.g. racetam like nootropics do this too) and the worst was an incident where I engaged into an unnecessary fight with a drunken stranger who shouted some nonsense at me. Instead of just thinking my part, in the end it was police 'solving' the issue. Stopped afterwards, am not sure as it's been years since but 'd say it were 5-7 days on 5mg/d as recommended. No euphoria, no classical stimulation. There might have been antidepressant effects, I don't think anxiolytic ones.

Did not come to trying it with anything else than the daily venlafaxine, wonder if this might have worsened as its a sNri and also has kind of a phenethylamine structure. Yet noradrenergic chems like bupropion come with a more physical energy and not increase aggressivity or compulsive tendency.

How different is it when used as a patch, or sublingual as some nootropic vendors sold it? Also of course be conscious that l meth will hit drug Tests too, afaik labs can differentiate of a specific ratio (like codeine/morphine) but urine sticks dont..

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Want to add that NRI properties of selegiline would mess with l-amt/l-amp reverse transport

Yeah dopamine agonist can cause compulsive behavior.

Idk what determines the change in l-meth/l-amp metabolites for transdermal vs oral or mucousal.

I wouldn't be surprised if test could pick up l-met/l-amp because users take a huge amount vs people using it for medical reasons. Chemically though, not sure.

 

[Nagelfar]

Not really to the purpose of my OP question, but all this talk makes me think asking my rx'er for a selegiline 'script. It sounds all positive, especially with my history of n-methylamp use.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

That might take a certain kind of professional. Doctors have tons of classes of indicated chemicals for depression. If you were to be given it orally, it would be in a quite high dose, I'd think Otherwise, the patch form for depression, EMSAM, is way too expensive without insurance covering almost all of it, if you live in the states. I used it for a few months. It messed with my sleep and I didn't really experience antidepressant effects but I was at a low dose.

From my trusted professionals, it works but tranylcypromine works better, and it didn't mess with my sleep to boot!

I didn't find EMSAM to be gratifying like amphetamine. Perhaps that's a good things.

 

[Nagelfar]

That might take a certain kind of professional. Doctors have tons of classes of indicated chemicals for depression. If you were to be given it orally, it would be in a quite high dose, I'd think Otherwise, the patch form for depression, EMSAM, is way too expensive without insurance covering almost all of it, if you live in the states. I used it for a few months. It messed with my sleep and I didn't really experience antidepressant effects but I was at a low dose.

From my trusted professionals, it works but tranylcypromine works better, and it didn't mess with my sleep to boot!

I didn't find EMSAM to be gratifying like amphetamine. Perhaps that's a good things.

Well mine got me on Pristiq, and the genetic test she got for me suggested Emsam / selegiline in addition to Pristiq so with that behind me... I may have to drop my mirtazapine to get it, and the sleep interruption doesn't sound like a comely prospect.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Yeah but chemicals with significant SRI and those as MAO-A inhibitors are contraindicated, dangerous in many people. And really the antidepressant effect doesn't happen until MAO-A is inhibited...

 

[dopamimetic]

from my trusted professionals, it works but tranylcypromine works better, and it didn't mess with my sleep to boot!

How bad was tranylcypromine in regards of dietary restrictions, did you have to always watch what's in the food you ate or only avoid some specific high-tyrosine alimentaries?

 

[xbandit07x]

We dont even know if Meth is as toxic as they say.

Plenty of people use methamp with benzos for years with little tolerance or changes

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

How bad was tranylcypromine in regards of dietary restrictions, did you have to always watch what's in the food you ate or only avoid some specific high-tyrosine alimentaries?

Not in my experience.

We dont even know if Meth is as toxic as they say.

Plenty of people use methamp with benzos for years with little tolerance or changes

Simply false.