Is "instant tolerance" a real thing?

[cj187]

I often see people say that if you take a psychedelic, then take another dose after a few hours, the second dose won't do much because you'll have a tolerance. If you can't feel the second dose because of receptor downregulation, why do still feel the effects of the first hit?

I think a better explanation is that by the time the second dose takes full effect, you're already past the peak from the first. Also, you've already been tripping for a few hours before you feel the second dose, so it may not be as remarkable when it kicks in.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I think the 'instant tolerance' refers to the fact that if you take the same dose the next day it won't have anywhere near the same effect. However, redosing whilst tripping will extend the experience. When I've used 'classic' psychedelics on consecutive days I've had to double the dose each day to achieve a similar state.

 

[Hilopsilo]

Yeah double at least. I actually quite prefer the effects of LSD the second day I take it when I double/triple/quadruple the dose, its as if I've already tackled any mental obstacles or difficulties I might have had day 1 and am able to push the dose seemingly as far as I want without any uncomfortable body load or possibility of bad trip whatsoever. Sort of like breaking a new pair of shoes in, but your brain.

That said, taking a psychedelic a third day in a row IME does not work well at all. I did this one time and took a massive dose of LSD on the third day, barely tripped at all, my body and mind were worn down from partying/tripping the two previous nights, low on sleep, probably hadn't been eating well, and the LSD made all of us this very apparent. I went to bed like 6 hours into the trip, needless to say I slept like 14 hours lol.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Sure you instantly raise your tolerance, pretty high I would expect. But I've found dosing another tab of acid an hour in is a fun way to have a smother two tab trip. So obviously I still get some out of the second dose, but I think it's smoother because the second is fighting through a raised tolerance.

I don't see this as wasteful unless really and truly low on supply.

 

[Hilopsilo]

Sure you instantly raise your tolerance, pretty high I would expect. But I've found dosing another tab of acid an hour in is a fun way to have a smother two tab trip. So obviously I still get some out of the second dose, but I think it's smoother because the second is fighting through a raised tolerance.

I don't see this as wasteful unless really and truly low on supply.

Be wary though, doing this can prolong the already relatively long duration of LSD. I'm usually ready for it to be over by the time its over.

 

[Pfafffed]

I mean, it's a thing with vaporized DMT

 

[spacejunk]

In my experience many (if not most) psychedelics have a fairly short term tolerance (and cross-tolerance with similar drugs ie LSD and mushrooms)

i think redosing is often pointless and kinda wasteful.
For example, if you take 3 tabs of acid over the course of a day or night (1 or 2 hours between them), you would be less high than if you took 3 tabs straight up.
Redosing tends to extend the duration of thw trip without increasing the intensity of the trip too much - just the duration.
Maybe not "instant tolerance", but more like a tolerance that comes and goes relatively quickly.

I assume it is something to do with receptor downregulation or something to do with how they are metabolised, but that's just an educated guess on my part - i'm not sure of the exact mechanism, but yew

 

[Neopunk]

I don't really know how this works, but I think there's more to it than just receptor downregulation. Btw the correct term for this phenomenon is "Tachyphylaxis". Maybe a mod or admin could edit the title of this thread. I bet it takes some reading, but if you research the topic using scientific search engines like pubmed or (gosh i hate it!) google scholar. If you have access to better search engines like web of science i highly recommend to use those instead of google scholar.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Some of us want to prolong the acid trip though. I find extended dosing very useful in that way as well.

 

[spacejunk]

Sure - me too

But you agree that it alters the intensity of trips? I still used to redose when i took a lot of acid - to prolong the peak. Any doses after the first one only tend to prolong it, rather than necessarily "kick it up a notch" (as i used to hope it would, before learning it didn't)

Neopunk - thanks, i knew there was a term for this but i'd forgotten what it was. I'll leave any edits to PD mods though.
I've been enjoying your posts, by the way. Dig your avatar too

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Of course I agree you're losing potential for the peak. I guess I just seek out recreational highs from acid now and as such making the come-up more palatable while still achieving a great peak is often my goal.

So if we're just asking 'Is product lost after an hour by immediate tolerance?' The answer is yes, and I'm fairly certain there are studies out there supporting that.

 

[Tranced]

I've taken some street grade medium-low strength acid 8~ hours after my first dose, came up and tripped again for another 8 hours or so. We were going to another party and it just worked; can't remember if we dosed more, but it wouldn't have been much.

I've also dosed some acid that was a +4 on the shulgin scale (1 blotter), and dosed again the following day. The following day was a borderline +1.

Make from that what you will!

 

[Neopunk]

Sorry for the late response, spacejunk. Thanks for your kind words, I really like your avatar too

With LSD it's a little bit different than with other agonists, as it's stuck to the receptor. Usually agonists drop into the receptor, alter the conformation of the receptor by binding to the functional groups of the implemented amino acids, and drop out again after a few ms, whereas LSD gets enclosed by the 5-HT2A receptor. So it's stuck in the receptor and that may be one reason for its long duration. Sadly I couldn't find any pictures of a LSD molecule trapped in the receptor, so you have to imagine it. Or preferably see this video, since no one knows his stuff like good ol' Dave Nichols:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxjCSKMbZBA

Really don't know how to explain Tranceds story though..

 

[treezy z]

I'd say tolerance more than doubles with one use of 5ht2a agonists (I specify because not the case with dissociatives or salvia). As in, take 2 tabs one day, you'll need 5+ the next.

 

[TheAppleCore]

I often see people say that if you take a psychedelic, then take another dose after a few hours, the second dose won't do much because you'll have a tolerance.

I've experienced this for myself. In fact, when I was younger (and stupider), I consumed an entire 250 mg bag of 4-HO-MiPT in a single night, because I kept redosing and getting no effect. :/

 

[undertow13]

Yes, it's definitely a real thing. Of course it's not going to apply to the initial doses you took since you took them without tolerance. But since tolerance does develop rapidly after ingestion, taking more while you're already tripping -- especially after or around the peak -- will only extend the duration and not increase the intensity at all.

One thing I used to do though is I'd go up by 2-5 hits every ~20-25 minutes. Doing it that way I found that I'd actually have multiple peaks, each one more intense than the last, and the duration would still be extended. But of course, it does get super intense so I'm not necessarily recommending it -- and even dosing that way there came a point where I'd hit that brick wall and taking more did nothing but extend the duration. And yeah next day dosing I've always had to at least double my dose. The third day after tripping always seemed to be the worst as far as tolerance though. I've wasted 25 hits trying to trip on the third day, which was 6 times as many hits as I initially took days before that. But, iirc, tolerance starts rapidly and increases over 3 days, and then drops back down over the next 3 days, so you're back at baseline ~6 days after your trip.