Insomnia and Ambien Tolerance

[switchtop]

I know this topic has been beaten to death (and yes, I've used the search engine -EXTENSIVELY, but have not found an answer realistic to me).
I have pretty bad insomnia, which was untreated for about 4 years until I got a 5 mg/day ambien script.
That worked (barely/kinda) for a year.

Then I got it upped to 10 mg/day, as well as being prescribed a daytime benzo for anxiety.
Now I find that I have to take 20 mg of ambien to even have a chance of falling asleep.
That obviously leaves 15 days a month where I'm left without it (which I space out evenly).

However, I typically have to spend money on opiates and/or alcohol to fall asleep on these days.
I simply cannot keep up with coming up with the money for this, as I'm a college student with a heavy course load.
Has anyone else gotten out of this mess?

Should I attempt to up my dose to 20 mg/day? I don't want to do this bc I feel like the cycle will get better for a month and then drastically decline again, leaving me with an even higher z-drug/benzo tolerance.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[chrisincville]

I'm in the same boat as you, except I'd end up going thru my whole zolpidem script in like a day. Finally got sick of that and how I'd manage to completely Fuck up my life somehow EVERY time without fail.


I'm hoping temazepam solves that issue for me (at least a little better than any of the other meds I've tried). Good luck to you..and to my knowledge, over 10mg zolpidem per dose isn't usually scripted, but I could be wrong.

 

[switchtop]

I'm in the same boat as you, except I'd end up going thru my whole zolpidem script in like a day. Finally got sick of that and how I'd manage to completely Fuck up my life somehow EVERY time without fail.


I'm hoping temazepam solves that issue for me (at least a little better than any of the other meds I've tried). Good luck to you..and to my knowledge, over 10mg zolpidem per dose isn't usually scripted, but I could be wrong.

Hey dude, did you switch to temazepam? If so, did it work? If not, what ended up working? I'm still on this fucking stupid train of ambien losing efficacy so quickly, and it's gotten worse. Last month, I finished my 30 day script 10 days early. This month (took the last 2 yesterday), I finished my script 12 days early. I end up drinking way too much on the other days and spending ridiculous amounts of money on other drugs just so I can sedate myself to sleep.

 

[MrRoot]

Nothing except upping the dose to a ridiculous amounts works well for chronic insomnia. Deal with it, sleep with it. That is what many docs have said for me.

I have pretty bad episodes of insomnia every once in a while and nothing has helped after my doses have escalated. I mean I have tried all the z-drugs and every (legal) benzos and nothing helps after tolerance creeps up. I have even tried benzos that are only used in Japan and other asian countries. Literally every benzo that is currently in use anywhere in the world. Sleepier antipsychotics won't do anything too.

Currently when these episodes happen I just stay awake until I am in a point in which sleep comes easily or my psyche starts disintegrating and then I'll go to hospital and stay there for few nights.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I have a somewhat favorable opinion of zolpidem as a drug...I've taken it on and off for a year or two, at 10 mgs a day. I can sleep without it but it always helps calm my mind and gets mentally prepared for sleep. Plus it just makes me feel good, in a weird kind of way...not in the manner of euphoric drugs, but in a weird kinda way.

Zolpidem works on the same kinds of receptors as benzodiazepene tranquilizers do, so it's not surprising that a 1+ year zolpidem script + daily benzodiapene use would jack your GABA-A tolerance through the roof

 

[BurritoJimmy]

I would live with the 1 out of 2 days without sleep rather than continuouslly upping the dose.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Upping the dose is not sustainable. Clonidine is something to try, Risperidone if getting desperate. Seroquel is also worth a go. Belsomra is new but no generic so it could be expensive.

Some people with chronic insomnia/mania have success with sodium channel antagonists like depakote and oxcarbazepine. Depakote is really cheap.

Long term I would definitely practice mindfulness meditation and learn to shut off your thoughts. An app called headspace is great to learn and the first 10 lessons are free and great to teach you the basics.

 

[SKL]

Tolerance is a real factor and +1000 for dose escalation being unsuitable.

Going to different pharmacological actions, have you tried Trazodone and/or Remeron? Seroquel? Doxepin? There are many possibilities. Here is a recent post of mine on pretty much the same subject.

 

[switchtop]

I have tried trazadone and seroquel. Trazadone was a trainwreck. It was back in high school, my friend and I had stolen some of his dad's meds. Anyways, after a night of binging on stimulants, I took it 2 hours before I was suppose to wake up (stupidly). Anyways, I didn't fall asleep until 30 minutes before I was suppose to wake up, and really it was an awake-dreamlike state anyways. I was like that for the rest of the day. I remember driving to school I couldn't tell if it was a dream, if I was awake, etc. Plus my piss was brown for the next 2 days. Weird stuff.

Seroquel literally didn't do anything for me. I have no clue how some people say it helps them relax and sleep. I even tried it 2 nights in a row. Oh well.

Clonidine worked well for me, when I used to have access to it. The problem though was that I would wake up the next day with really low blood pressure. For the rest of the next day, I was too lazy and I couldn't stand up too quickly. I'll have to try out that depakote stuff. I think there might actually be some in the family medicine cabinet...

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Depakote, carbamazepine, or any other sodium channel antagonist is probably good to give a decent try, but they are more serious meds than what you've tried so far, so they are not to be taken lightly. Depakote is not a drug I'd want to be on for 5 years. It seems with Depakote many people don't notice a big subjective difference - I personally had to get above 1000mg a day for it to make a difference.

As far as stuff like Clonidine goes I'm in the same situation, it works good but I am limited in dose by low blood pressure. In that case you might like belsomra. There were coupons online from the belsomra website for like 10 free pills.

But seriously don't doubt the meditation - you can't take meds forever. Sooner or later they stop working.

 

[Pilll_head]

I've been taking Ambien 12.5 mg CR for years now and I've definitely noticed a tolerance to it but I think it has plateaued. I'll go through bouts where I always wake up at 4 AM for a week or so but it eventually stops. But I basically cannot sleep without a Z-drug now.

The thing about Seroquel is that at higher doses it is not as sedating. I would try 50 mg. If that isn't working maybe Lunesta although that is also a GABA-A ag. I have a friend who usually takes a small dose of Xanax at bedtime. It goes without saying that a benzo isn't the ideal solution but not being able to sleep totally ruins your quality of life, so I think Xanax is the lesser of the two evils

 

[randyrandal]

What happens if you use Zolpidem daily for a longer peroid? Officially you must only take it a few days in a row and also only for a short time.

If you take it daily do you become dependent on it or does it simply not work anymore after a while? I guess cycling it with other Z drugs doesn't work
cause they're all similar.

And can anyone recommend an alternative to Zolpidem which works faster and also has a long halflife? I need something which works very fast which is really
reliable and also works long enough, like 8 hours but doesn't cause a hangover.

With zopiclon and zolpidem my experience is that they arent really that reliable. They help me fall asleep on "normal" days but let's say I needed something to
help me sleep before something scary on the next day like a medical examination or something like that then I needed something more potent which you can really
rely on which does the job every time.
Is there something which you just take and BANG you fall asleep no matter if it's during the day and you're not tired at all? Something like this would be awesome.
If I took zolpidem during the day it wouldn't knock me out.

 

[m314]

Remeron has been working well for me lately. Remeron, melatonin, and diphenhydramine or doxylamine. That's during the week. Cannabis capsules give me the best nights of sleep I've had all week on the weekends. I save those for Fridays and Saturdays because of how they affect my job performance the next day. They're like everything else in that they work best when you don't take them every night.

Zolpidem and zopiclone both suck eventually when you take them long term. They stop working for sleep after a certain point. They can lead to withdrawal symptoms if you stick with them long enough.

It's best to find something new when your insomnia medicine stops working.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

What happens if you use Zolpidem daily for a longer peroid? Officially you must only take it a few days in a row and also only for a short time.

If you take it daily do you become dependent on it or does it simply not work anymore after a while? I guess cycling it with other Z drugs doesn't work
cause they're all similar.

As someone who has taken it for years, on a fairly regular basis, I can sleep without it and have never experienced noticeable WD from it, even after taking it every single night for months on end. Except maybe some early sleeplessness when initially quitting...but honestly the insomnia I experience when off zolpidem isn't even terribly worse than the insomnia I experience while ON zolpidem. Zolpidem largely solves the issue of sleep initiation for me, but another symptom is early wakefulness, and zolpidem doesn't really solve that.

BUT, I will say that if there's zolpidem around me when I'm getting ready for bed, 9 times out of 10 I'll probably take 5-10 mgs even if I feel tired enough to fall asleep "naturally". And then I'll make myself stay awake for 20 minutes or so until I start to "feel it". Like I previously mentioned, I enjoy the psychoactive effect of the drug for some reason. It's especially strange considering the fact that I dislike the psychoactive effect of other GABA-A drugs like xanax...even though 0.5 - 1 mg of alprazolam nightly at bedtime would probably be as effective for sleep initiation purposes as 5 - 10 mgs of zolpidem is (for me anyway...)

 

[switchtop]

As someone who has taken it for years, on a fairly regular basis, I can sleep without it and have never experienced noticeable WD from it, even after taking it every single night for months on end. Except maybe some early sleeplessness when initially quitting...but honestly the insomnia I experience when off zolpidem isn't even terribly worse than the insomnia I experience while ON zolpidem. Zolpidem largely solves the issue of sleep initiation for me, but another symptom is early wakefulness, and zolpidem doesn't really solve that.

BUT, I will say that if there's zolpidem around me when I'm getting ready for bed, 9 times out of 10 I'll probably take 5-10 mgs even if I feel tired enough to fall asleep "naturally". And then I'll make myself stay awake for 20 minutes or so until I start to "feel it". Like I previously mentioned, I enjoy the psychoactive effect of the drug for some reason. It's especially strange considering the fact that I dislike the psychoactive effect of other GABA-A drugs like xanax...even though 0.5 - 1 mg of alprazolam nightly at bedtime would probably be as effective for sleep initiation purposes as 5 - 10 mgs of zolpidem is (for me anyway...)

I am in the same boat. Ever since I started taking zolpidem, I was taking it almost every night, unless I had taken opiates earlier that day. I was infatuated with the chemical from day one. It is intriguing, more so than xanax or klonopin. I've been getting better with my ambien also. I voluntarily took about a 20 day break, and I'm going to start taking it again tomorrow. I am going to be very strict in not taking more than my prescribed 10 mg per day. If it doesn't work, then too bad. I won't go back to the pill bottle for more. I have not been sleeping well at all. My sleep schedule cycles between virtually nocturnal and normal about every 3 days. Without ambien, I usually don't fall asleep until 20 hours after I've woken up. I even missed work twice. Luckily, I'm extremely good at bullshitting.

 

[keeping]

y'all need to sort your sleep hygiene out

 

[chrisincville]

Hey, to answer your questions: I switched to temazepam, but didn't really continue to get it. I went thru those too quickly as well. Temazepam is a benzo, and zolpidem is a hypnotic which is very similar to benzos (effects the another set of GABA receptors) so really unless you try Trazadone or Quetiapine, or other pharms that don't have addictive properties and they don't work, then I'm afraid a lot of addicts like us are shit out of luck. I've just finished a stretch in jail where I took Seroquel every night and it helped, just not in a way that I'd enjoy recreationallly. Good luck to you.