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In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
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Nov 3, 1999
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Gabor Mate wrote this book called In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts. It's really amazing, if any of you like reading you should definitely give it a shot. It certainly helped me a lot. Very insightful man. Anywho, I was wondering if anyone wanted to discuss the significant of identity and addition and the transition/transformation to recovery, health and success.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_ghost said:
Hungry ghost is a concept in Chinese Buddhism and Chinese traditional religion representing beings who are driven by intense emotional needs in an animalistic way. The term 餓鬼 èguǐ, literally "hungry ghost", is the Chinese translation of the term preta in Buddhism. "Hungry ghosts" play a role in Chinese Buddhism and Taoism as well as in Chinese folk religion. The term is not to be confused with the generic term for "ghost",鬼 guǐ (i.e. the spirit of a deceased ancestor). The understanding is that all people become such a regular ghost when they die, and would then slowly weaken and eventually die a second time. Hungry ghosts, by contrast, are a much more exceptional case, and would only occur in very unfortunate circumstances, such as if a whole family were killed or when a family no longer venerated their ancestors.

With the rise in popularity of Buddhism, the idea became popular that souls would live in space until reincarnation. In the Taoist tradition it is believed that hungry ghosts can arise from people whose deaths have been violent or unhappy. Both Buddhism and Taoism share the idea that hungry ghosts can emerge from neglect or desertion of ancestors. According to the Hua-yen Sutra evil deeds will cause a soul to be reborn in one of six different realms. The highest degree of evil deed will cause a soul to be reborn as a denizen of hell, a lower degree of evil will cause a soul to be reborn as an animal, and the lowest degree will cause a soul to be reborn as a hungry ghost. According to the tradition, evil deeds that lead to becoming a hungry ghost are killing, stealing and sexual misconduct. Desire, greed, anger and ignorance are all factors in causing a soul to be reborn as a hungry ghost because they are motives for people to perform evil deeds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabor_Maté_(physician)#Books said:
A recurring theme in Maté's books is the impact of a person's childhood on their mental and physical health through neurological and psychological mechanisms, which he connects with the need for social change. In the book In the Realm of the Hungry Ghosts, he proposes new approaches to treating addiction (e.g. safe injection sites) based on an understanding of the biological and socio-economic roots of addiction. He describes the significant role of "early adversity" i.e. stress, mistreatment and particularly childhood abuse, in increasing susceptibility to addiction. This happens through the impairment of neurobiological development, impairing the brain circuitry involved in addiction, motivation and incentive. He argues the "war on drugs" actually punishes people for having been abused and entrenches addiction more deeply as studies show that stress is the biggest driver of addictive relapse and behavior. He says a system that marginalizes, ostracizes and institutionalizes people in facilities with no care and easy access to drugs, only worsens the problem. He also argues the environmental causes of addiction point to the need to improve child welfare policies (e.g. U.S. welfare laws that force many single women to find low-paying jobs far away from home and their children) and the need for better support for families overall, as most children in North America are now away from their parents from an early age due to economic conditions. He feels that society needs to change policies that disadvantage certain minority groups, causing them more stress and therefore increased risks for addictions.

The impact of childhood adversity is also noted in When the Body Says No: Understanding the Stress-Disease Connection. He notes that early experiences have a key role in shaping a person's perceptions of the world and others, and in stress physiology, factors that affect the person's health later on. He says that emotional patterns ingrained in childhood live in the memory of cells and the brain and appear in interpersonal interactions. He describes the impact of 'adverse childhood experiences' or ACEs (e.g. a child being abused, violence in the family, a jailed parent, extreme stress of poverty, a rancorous divorce, an addict parent, etc.) on how people live their lives and their risk of addiction and mental and physical illnesses, as seen in a number of U.S.-based Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) studies. Having a number of ACEs exponentially increases a person's chances of becoming an addict later on e.g. a male child with six ACEs has a 4,600% or 46-fold increase in risk. ACEs also exponentially increase the risk of diseases e.g. cancer, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc. and also suicide and early death.

He argues that patients should therefore be encouraged to explore their childhoods and the impact on their adult behaviors. Overall, he argues people benefit by taking a holistic approach to their own health. For instance, he has seen people survive supposedly terminal diagnoses by seriously considering their "mind-body unity" and "spiritual unity"; going beyond "the medical model of treatment."

He has also spoken about how the rise in bullying, ADHD and other mental disorders in American children are the result of current societal conditions e.g. a disconnected society and "the loss of nurturing, non-stressed parenting." That is, we live in a society where for the first time in history, children are spending most of their time away from nurturing adults. He asserts that nurturing adults are necessary for healthy brain development.


Okay. So I know Wikipedia isn't necessarily the most amazing resource when you're tired and need something really super quick. . . But there is some food for thought up there. I for one love Mate's ideas surrounding what is essentially an application of the concept of hungry ghosts.

Here is a link to In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, by Gabor Mate: http://thezeitgeistmovement.se/files/In_the_Realm_of_Hungry_Ghosts_-_Gabor_Mate__M.D_.pdf

Enjoy! :)
 
Hey friend. Although i admit a lot of this is over my head i love that book and had my hands on it for awhile till i lost it something. Im always interested in discussing things like this but you may have to hold my hand at first. Message me your basic thoughts on this subject and ill get back to you. You are def an interesting dude my friend!!
 
What aspects of it would you like to discuss? I am interested in how one's identity becomes warped during active addiction, and how the process of recovery is really one of personal growth, where one's old (pre-addiction) identity re-emerges (post-addiction) as something very familiar to those who know it, but so much more at the same time. So much strong for those who are able to more past many of the challenges in life that their addiction has created.
 
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That sounds intersting. Is it kind of like when loved ones say its so good to have you back but on a deep level. Lets continue this in pm whenever you can. Im really interested in this
 
Just ordered a copy of THG, so I'll have more to write soon.

For many of us with "dual diagnoses," the self that we experience in the years before we start using drugs is weakly or incompletely formed. Conditions like severe depression, schizophrenia, various personality disorders--especially stemming from early trauma--leave us with a tangle of parts of identities that we improvise with to present as functioning humans but that don't offer much in the way of experiencing a fully integrated, coherent sense of being whole. For many psychological thinkers (I'm thinking of Leonard Shengold in his book Soul Murder) the kinds of traumas that Maté seems to be talking about lead to precisely these kinds of states.

What I'm trying and failing to get at is maybe easier described biographically...

After a lifetime of severe depression brought on from a long string of early traumas, I got exhausted by the sheer effort it took in order to seem (to the outside world) like myself. Inwardly, I felt like a fraud, a fake, an incoherent jumble of lies waiting to be found out.

And that's where drugs came in for me. To this day, I believe that the way I took to heroin was because it relieved the anxiety of having not viable self. I was a hungry ghost and the drugs let me forget that, let me think I was a person. It has been so hard to walk away from dope because it means going back to a life where I feel not only incomplete but also bogus and failed.

That's why I feel that for me, the only route away from addiction to a viable life is not to go "back" to where I was before, but to find something authentic and new.
 
For many of us with "dual diagnoses," the self that we experience in the years before we start using drugs is weakly or incompletely formed. Conditions like severe depression, schizophrenia, various personality disorders--especially stemming from early trauma--leave us with a tangle of parts of identities that we improvise with to present as functioning humans but that don't offer much in the way of experiencing a fully integrated, coherent sense of being whole. For many psychological thinkers (I'm thinking of Leonard Shengold in his book Soul Murder) the kinds of traumas that Maté seems to be talking about lead to precisely these kinds of states.

And that doesn't just apply to addicts with only serious mental illness. It can be said for anyone who struggles with depression, anxiety, bipolar, whatever, to any degree. Obviously I couldn't agree more. You keep impressing me with you knowledge simco, I'm so glad to have you onboard our little SL ship :)
 
Wow Simco, your post touched me. I knew this was about identities in some way but now i have a better grip. I need to read the book bad.

I am also dual diagnosis if you will. Ive been having mental issues since i was 10 due to childhood trauma. My mental issues eventually evolved into mental illness with mis diagnosis for years.

Then, as you say, the drugs came. Mine was alcohol mostly then opiates. I always felt "less" than a person. Damaged goods. Putting on a smile was near impossible. Acting all happy i felt like a whore. Then the substances made me feel comfy in my skin. Getting sober first was very diffucult bc id feel like that idiot person again and i would relapse time after time.

Ill end here cause this is still a bit over my head but i recently fought with opiates. I have to take them or the pain is enourmous. I have a good shrink and im on medicine but when im not doing what i was doing recently i feel worthless. Idk if that qualifies me as a hungry ghost but i sure feel like one. Which personality should i go with or maybe more accuratley, which mind should i choose. I know im miserable right now cause for 30 yrs its been like this. I just wanna say bye to it all but thats no answer. I find this thread and book will be extremly helpful. Thanks to Simco and toothpastedog.
 
I just read some of the book. I was blown away. The book will have to wait cause im poor. I never thought i couldnt get a 15$ book but i was very interested.
 
hey, Closeau... obviously this is *not* over your head. Thanks for your awesome posts. Yeah, that feeling of having several identities we can try on, none of which quite fits is right on.

By the way, a shout-out to Durham, NC...I lived in Chapel Hill for years. I miss it.
-Sim
 
I don't know about others, but for me personally, the roots of my behavior definitely do NOT reside in my early childhood experiences. My childhood was very comfortable, middle class parents who stayed together, no bullying or abuse, etc. I've never been able to relate to people who use in order to cope with trauma. Unless by "trauma" they mean this grotesque experiment called everyday life
 
Thanks Simco. Chapel Hill is awesome. They have the best meetings out there cause those college kids dont hold anything back. Durham is in bad shape. Idk how long its been since youve been here but they fixed up downtown. Very nice restauraunt and bar scene and Bulls park an DPAC which music and plays come here. Big names too but crime in Durham has never been worse

The hipsters went in and bought public housing places and fixed them up for Duke students which displaced all the residents and the ciry has had to sec 8 everything to accomodate. Racial tension is about to explode. We do have Duke hospital ehich has saved my life 3 times in last 2 years. Last year it was my colon which they had to take out. Ostomy bag for life which is very diffucult to accept especially when im clean and my actual self.

Anyway, thanks for the props. When tootpastedog proposed this idea i was very intrigued but a little scared i wouldnt grasp it but your post helped the most and reading exerts of the book on Amazon i got it totally and the fact hes been there himself totally helps and if he works on skid row in Vancover he gets to see addiction and personalities up close.

Since i stopped abusing opiates, which wasnt too long ago, i have yet to look at myself in the mirror. I have a big beard cause i havent shaven and im constantly secong guessing myself after conversations wondering if i said the wrong thing. My anxiety is thru the roof but i have meds for that too. You know, childhood events may or may not affect us as adults. Idk. All i have is my experience and i was about 7 when issues started till my parents divorced when i was 10 and those last couple of years all i heard from dad was, you cant speak right. You dont understand this easy shit? Youre an idiot. I can say that affected me then and it shaped my mindset to this day. My dad didnt put a bottle in my hand or a syringe in my arm.

I think people misunderstand this. I dont blame him and i grew up with values and morals and its my resonsibilty to enforce those in my life but i can say my childhood had a big role in my mental illness. My illness is genetic and i was probably born with it but all this hungry ghost stuff has me thinking

The part im looking forward to is coming out of the abuse mind and coming out of the sick mind and ultimatly win bc you can be comfy in your own skin and youre "free" Like i said, my understanding is miniscule but these are the things my mind brings me too when i think about this

Luckily i remember well from my Buddhist training that all things are impermanet so change will happen in my mind, body, and soul. I embrace change prob bc im at the lowest point of my life but for myself and the ones i love and love me change is imperative. I wanna use everyday and i can. I still got supplies and everything but life is choices and like i said before its my responsibility to choose correctly. Thru the grace of God the obsession to drink has been lifted but its been people. I hate people but people help me everyday. Like now, i got bad news and logged on and saw Simco post and it helped me. Little things go a long way. So having said that ill end my manifesto, lol. Thank you simco and be glad you got out of this area and sorry if this post is a bit off topic of this thread which is gonna be one of my favorites. Lastly, shout out to the Captain fot the pdf. You truly are a helper. Thanks guys!!!
 
I read this book a while ago and I loved it. :)

I don't know about others, but for me personally, the roots of my behavior definitely do NOT reside in my early childhood experiences. My childhood was very comfortable, middle class parents who stayed together, no bullying or abuse, etc. I've never been able to relate to people who use in order to cope with trauma. Unless by "trauma" they mean this grotesque experiment called everyday life

A lot of people think this, but there is a huge trend for children of alcoholics to become alcoholics themselves.

It's not the sole source of addiction as a disease. <3
 
Its funny i had to do an emergency walk in at my shrinks to get help and shes read this book 3 times and loves it. I started it. Love it!
 
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