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Ethnobotanicals Ibogaine Prep Help

G

G_Chem

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I’m contemplating finally giving this a go.. I’ve been hesitant for years due to me being on buprenorphine and the debates surrounding how effective ibogaine can be for this. I’ve got many questions/comments and hope some can help me.

1. How long does one need to hold off from buprenorphine before taking a flood dose? I’ve heard 2-3mos but I’m on 1mg and willing to drop it further before I go for this. I can’t make it no 2-3mos.

2. I hear 20mg/kg is good, correct?

3. How much should I have on hand? I currently have 1g of Iboga TA, 50% Ibogaine. I know I need more, I plan on obtaining 2-5 grams of Ibogaine made from Voacangine. It will likely still contain some voacangine.

4. I hear Voacangine also has anti addiction properties.. Can it work same as Ibogaine or no?

5. How long do the heart issues last related to the effects? Are they acute or long lasting similar to the anti addiction effects?


I probably have more questions I’ll think of as they come to me. My plan is to prepare for this experience about a year and a half from now. I feel then I’ll have a good month I can take to do this and integrate. I fully understand that this is a reset, likely a one time deal. So I want to make sure I do this right.

I’ll probably do this on a remote piece of property where I can then spend the following weeks exercising, eating healthy and communing with nature in a way I haven’t done in a long time. Of course have a sitter as well. I’m curious what she’ll need to expect as well..

Thanks in advance :)

-GC
 
Are you doing this by yourself? I don't like the idea of that but I've lost so many friends to drugs that I do feel the positives outweigh the negatives here. So first off, buprenorphine does not react well with Ibogaine, at all. My last half-flood was hell because of it and it still wasn't fully out until after my full flood. I have even seen people come out dopesick after their floods with bupe but they were not prepared properly. Is there any chance that you could get something safer where you know it's legit (no fent bs), like Hydromorphone or something like that with a shorter half life? If so I would recommend switching to that for at least a couple week as even low doses of bupe will accumulate over time.

I am still new this site and not sure of all the rules but feel free to PM about some things. My provider knows much more than I do in regards to this.

Next off, are you on any SSRIs or SSNIs or Gabapentin/pregabalin? If so, you will need to taper off of those beforehand for the same reason. Avoid any GABAergics. It is my belief and also my original providers belief that if your body has too many benzos or Gaba agonists in it, then you may not receive any visions. Mine were largely blocked the last time. Also, any antipsychotics have to go. There are more that I'm forgetting but there is info online about the massive list of meds that counteract with it. Ibogaine interacts badly with many, many medications so try to taper down safely. Avoid Grapefuit Juice as well.

20mg/km is definitely enough. Voacanga is interesting because it has some similar, lesser known alkaloids that can also work in some similar ways. It has a very small percentage of Ibogaine in it though. I'm not sure if those other alkaloids will produce visions but I do think they will help with the brain reset.

After my last half flood, I had a resting heart rate under 60, sometimes around 50 bpm for the rest of the week. I am relatively healthy (was an athlete) but that was definitely low for me. It is different for everybody depending on metabolism, genetics, health and other factors but generally the heart effects shouldn't last more than a week (a couple days if your prepare right).

Now I was lucky enough to go somewhere where they basically nursed me back to health for 3 weeks prior to giving me it the 1st time. The part that has gotten some of my friends to leave or argue with my guy was doing coffee enemas. I hated them, but they do work. It's a great way to detox your body and helps your metabolism so that the Noribogaine can break down quicker and you'll be back on your feet much, much quicker. Also, probiotics are a good thing to be taking before. Take LOTS of Vitamins, the Bs, C, D3 and K. On the days leading up to your flood, I would avoid red meat. I fasted for 12 hours, including no water before my floods because that was what I was told my original provider. The 2nd place that I went to said 8 hours, but definitely fast before. Ibogaine does not like to share space in your body. I'm forgetting much more but I'll try to remember and edit.

This may seem extreme to some people around here but I also was running around playing basketball the next day after my 1st flood and sleeping that night (nearly 10 years of heroin addiction with a side of benzos before that). I also understand that I am the guy who has done so many floods and relapsed but that's not because I didn't prepare right. Ibogaine takes a massive toll on your brain and your body and it should go without saying that preparation is very important, unless you want to be stuck in your bed staring at the wall for the next week without a wink of sleep.

I hope that you at least have a sitter available. Your body will develop ataxia for a good 8 to 12 hours and possibly even much longer. Taking trips to the bathroom alone will be difficult because your brain is moving much faster and your movements will be off. Also, getting up too fast will severely upset your stomach and puking on ibogaine is incredibly unpleasant.

Have you had an EKG done recently? It would probably be even better to have a stress test done but just make sure that your heart is in relatively good condition. I wish you the best, bud. Please learn from my mistakes because Papa Iboga doesn't seem to take kindly to repeat offenders like myself.

Edit: My bad, just saw that you said you had a sitter. She will need to know that you will have ataxia and that if you need to go to the bathroom, you need to move VERY slowly. Your consciousness is drifting from one realm to another. Getting up and moving around too fast can make you VERY sick. I only puked on my first flood but it was the worst puke of my life and felt like hours. Also, get some noise cancelling headphones and play the Bwiti music. I can send you some links to it if you want. They say that it balances out your brain from the shitstorm that it is enduring and a few Bwiti members even claim that people have died because the music wasn't playing. They stress the music. The music helps you to journey and find those pieces of you that are hidden deep in the crevices of your subconscious. The tribe may also visit you on the astral plane. Don't be alarmed. They can look quite intimidating with all the face paint and may bounce you around to the music.

No lights, only candles and blackout shades for the windows if you can get some. For the most part, your sitter will just be watching you lay there, with your arms folded like a body at a viewing and not much moving will be going on. Do NOT try to move around too much. That is how you get stomach sickness. Conversations will be difficult and music and everything will sound much slower since you're brain is firing so rapidly. I would also recommend spacing the doses out over a few hours if you can.
 
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It seems counterproductive, but it's best to get back on a short half life opioid before doing a flood dose. Kratom is the best bet, if you can transition to kratom and then use as little as possible, you'll be on the best position. I'm just talking about immediately before the experience, give yourself enough time to be able to get past the bupe dependence and into kratom only. Reason being, the withdrawals won't last very long so the blocking effects and residual blocking from the metabolites will be able to cover you for all or nearly all of the acute withdrawals. Whereas with suboxone, it's going to be a 3-4 week ordeal which you will begin to feel again a week or so after the flood dose, which decreases your chance of success. Though for me, there was a strong motivation/mindset shift afterwards, where even though I felt some residual withdrawal, I did not have any desire to medicate it with anything, I just let it happen. I believe buprenorphine might have an additional interaction due to its receptor saturation but I am not positive about that.

2. Yes 20mg/kg is ideal. That's what I did. And I recommend a mix of TA extract and ibogaine HCL to get the full spectrum of plant alkaloids. Personally I did 950mg of HCL and 500mg of TA extract (I was very skinny at the time but that gave me 1200mg, which was about 20 mg/kg)

3. I would get at least 2 grams of ibogaine HCL, your 1 gram of TA is good. Try to keep enough on hand for if you need a follow-up booster dose... I did a booster of 350mg of ibogaine equivalent (part TA, part HCL) on day 6 which was very important for my experience. Not sure what your weight is, which will determine how much you need.

I am not really clear on the mechanism of the heart issues, but I think post-acute effects you're probably good. It would be good to get a heart exam beforehand to rule out any potential issues.

The duration of a flood seems to vary a lot. personally it lasted 3 full days and nights for me until I could start to be self-sufficient again. Other people say 24 hours, or even as little as 8-10 hours. Not sure why this varies so much. Your sitter should expect to just have you laying down for the first half of it, you'll probably not try to move. If you do get up, and seem disoriented, they should try to gently steer you back to bed.

Before you do it, get rid of all of your opiates so you're not tempted in the manic re-entry phase.

I'd be happy to answer more questions for you, I had a mentor (RIP morninggloryseed) and it made a huge difference for me. I did it myself, with a good friend as a sitter. It can be done and I could never have afforded to do a facility, or even close. A good facility is probably the best bet but it's insanely expensive.
 
Thanks guys I’ll respond more later!! :)

But for now.. I’m not on any other medication besides my habitual cannabis smoking. Which brings up a good point.. Is it bad smoke bud while on Ibogaine too? Also how long until I can trip and roll afterwards?

I could probably switch opiates just would want to do it for a minimum amount of time since most opiates don’t seem to cover buprenorphine for me. Bupe is it’s own beast and strangely the only opiate the feels close is tramadol which may say something of Bupes pharmacology.

I could switch to Kratom and a morphine ester similar to heroin. How long, a month? Idk if I’d want to do it much longer than that, but if necessary..

@Xorkoth i was reading today over some of those threads regarding suicide, that’s why I see this as a one time deal and want to make sure I get this right. I don’t want to face whatever those people faced.

-GC
 
I smoked about 10mg of DMT on day 5 after my initial flood dose and it was extremely strong and bizarre, so it will definitely interact, but I would think after a few weeks you should be good to trip, I doubt classical psychedelics would be a dangerous interaction in any case. I would be more cautious of rolling, although truth be told, in my extremely hypomanic state right afterward, I actually took methylone and 3-MMC on day 4 after (I had a whole drug-using thing including kratom in the 6 days after my initial dose which is why having someone to help steer you for a number of days afterwards is important), the follow-up dose on day 6 really set the whole thing into stone for me).

A month is probably good, maybe even 3 weeks, just enough time to get the bupe out of your system. If possible, stick to just kratom, I know that is hard though, I am currently doing that and about 2 weeks in, and I'm finally starting to not feel pretty shitty without bupe.

What I did before my flood was, I stopped using poppy tea 2 weeks before, and used kratom. I had this crazy almost pre-iboga experience, once I received it, I felt like it was somehow affecting me, though I know it was just the anticipation. My withdrawal seemed much less than it usually would and I used as little kratom as possible, the day before, I only dosed once and the day of (I took the flood at night), I didn't take any. The goal is to get through some of withdrawal if you can, and try to taper as low as you can. At day 6 after the flood began, I started feeling some withdrawal again, but it was light and I was fully able to just accept it.
 
Fascinating thread, thanks for the knowledge. Keep us posted GC. I think my only question would be is there a level of experience between that of Microdosing and a flood? Like if there was a level that gives a person a eight hour trip? Or is it all or nothing? I always hear about microdosing and floods But not sure if there is an in between.

As mentioned sometimes I feel bad about going to the grave without any Ibogaine experience. But I guess I’ll have to accept there are many experiences that are too late to have. I’m never going to be quarterback for the NY Giants either. lol
 
A microdose lasts around perhaps 8 hours. The larger you go, the stronger and longer it lasts. A flood lasts so long because it takes many half-lives for the level to get down to inactivity, and furthermore the noribogaine that it metabolizes to has a longer half-life so it can really linger for a long time. Consider that an active microdose dose is like 7mg. And in a flood, people are taking well over a gram. I took 1200mg myself, as I weighed 60kg at the time. Someone weighing 100kg would be taking 2 grams, if they did 20mg/kg. That is WAY higher than the dose at which it is active.

At 1200mg, it takes 7 half lives to get down to about 9mg. And that's not even accounting for the noribogaine.

When I took my booster of about 500mg, on day 6 after the initial flood dose, I had a night of dream visions but I was aware I was dreaming and it was much more controllable than the flood. During the flood I didn't even know I was on a drug most of the time, until day 3. I would come in and out of cognizance, and my vision was totally overtaken at all times. On the booster dose (which was undoubtedly affected by the remaining noribogaine, I was far from baseline still then), there were amazing, unique visuals and dreams with my eyes closed. Also a strong dissociative feeling of wonkiness and difficulty walking.

I'd love to take a ~500mg dose again sometimes to see what it had to offer just in terms of visionary potential.
 
If it only takes a month I think I could maybe manage. The last time I tried subbing Kratom for bupe I got my ass kicked, but that was 4mg sometimes a bit more. 1mg is a different ball game (I hope..)

I plan to wait over a year to do this so I can get a chance to further taper in the meantime, as well as set up the property I plan on using in a way that is comfortable for long stays. I’d like to taper down to .5mg at least, if not lower, before trying to jump to Kratom and other short acting opiates.

My problem is I’ve only ever gotten good effects from kratom when using Da Maeng extracts, one in particular really got me high but otherwise I don’t feel much on them. The short duration drives me crazy too but that’ll be good I suppose to keep me from coming back.

How much kratom should I obtain for a month, any suggestions on strains?

@Xorkoth, I’m gonna go read your old report here soon to see how it all played out. 3 days of not knowing your tripping sounds nuts to me, but it sounds like it may be similar to say Mescaline where it all feels “right.”

-GC
 
It was definitely nuts. It wasn't anything like mescaline, but it wasn't scary. For the first 2 days I was mostly laying in bed, I guess I got up to pee but I don't remember doing it. I was scared shitless leading up to it, but during it, it was like in dreams where you just accept what's happening as reality. I don't know if your dreams are that way but I never really feel terrified in dreams, or realize I'm dreaming at the time. When I was coming out of it, I had a difficult period where I was really scared, because I thought something else was going on and no one was there (we were told I only needed to be watched for 24 hours). It seems like most people don't have the same experience I did, most people seem to report that they knew what was happening the whole time, and it lasts for like 1 day. For me, it was like a huge subconscious cleansing, looking back even right after the extremely long peak, it felt like a long time had passed. It was confusing to make sense of, and I didn't really make sense of it until day 7, after my booster. Anyway, you might not have the same sort of experience as me. it seems like people get what they need a lot of the time. I didn't really need to forgive myself or realize some things I did, I needed to be healed from a decade of emotional abuse and unhealthy patterns. The dreams I had were abstract, but representative of addiction. I came out of it with a strong will to change, and I did change. My life was already starting to change but iboga gave me a reset button. I wish I hadn't turned back to opiates years later during a really hard time. I'm not willing to do a flood again for addiction so this time I'm doing it without.

Iboga changed my dream architecture for years. I had so many vivid dreams and they had the flavor of iboga for a long time.

it is recommended to fast for 24 hours beforehand, I think in large part to avoid having to get up and use the bathroom.

As for kratom, I hate being addicted to it, because of the duration and the lack of much in the way of positive effects once you get there. And the transition from bupe isn't too fun. I finally got there the past 2 days, but kratom has me dosing so often. The reason for swiching is that it has comparatively less severe, and much shorter, withdrawals. Everything I have read and been told says that trying to do it from a long-acting opioid reduces your chances quite a bit of it working out. Probably because once the dust settles, you're in for 2 weeks of withdrawal. Also, it works partly through the opioid receptors, so I imagine bupe would prevent binding there.
 
Xorkoth said:
It was definitely nuts. It wasn't anything like mescaline, but it wasn't scary. For the first 2 days I was mostly laying in bed, I guess I got up to pee but I don't remember doing it. I was scared shitless leading up to it, but during it, it was like in dreams where you just accept what's happening as reality. I don't know if your dreams are that way but I never really feel terrified in dreams, or realize I'm dreaming at the time. When I was coming out of it, I had a difficult period where I was really scared, because I thought something else was going on and no one was there (we were told I only needed to be watched for 24 hours). It seems like most people don't have the same experience I did, most people seem to report that they knew what was happening the whole time, and it lasts for like 1 day. For me, it was like a huge subconscious cleansing, looking back even right after the extremely long peak, it felt like a long time had passed. It was confusing to make sense of, and I didn't really make sense of it until day 7, after my booster. Anyway, you might not have the same sort of experience as me. it seems like people get what they need a lot of the time. I didn't really need to forgive myself or realize some things I did, I needed to be healed from a decade of emotional abuse and unhealthy patterns. The dreams I had were abstract, but representative of addiction. I came out of it with a strong will to change, and I did change. My life was already starting to change but iboga gave me a reset button. I wish I hadn't turned back to opiates years later during a really hard time. I'm not willing to do a flood again for addiction so this time I'm doing it without.

Iboga changed my dream architecture for years. I had so many vivid dreams and they had the flavor of iboga for a long time.

it is recommended to fast for 24 hours beforehand, I think in large part to avoid having to get up and use the bathroom.

As for kratom, I hate being addicted to it, because of the duration and the lack of much in the way of positive effects once you get there. And the transition from bupe isn't too fun. I finally got there the past 2 days, but kratom has me dosing so often. The reason for swiching is that it has comparatively less severe, and much shorter, withdrawals. Everything I have read and been told says that trying to do it from a long-acting opioid reduces your chances quite a bit of it working out. Probably because once the dust settles, you're in for 2 weeks of withdrawal. Also, it works partly through the opioid receptors, so I imagine bupe would prevent binding there.
Click to expand...

I also wonder if maybe you had the perfect ratio of other alkaloids to extend the experience, just a thought. I know you say you did 1g pure and .5g TA which still has other alkaloids present. I plan on maybe doing something similar, part Ibogaine part TA.

I’ll come back as more questions come to me, the more I talk about this the more I want to almost aim for this summer but logistically it doesn’t seem wise. That said, the thought of being free from this monkey on my back isn’t one I’ve entertained in many years, it doesn’t feel real but it could be..

-GC
 
“I think the TA extract should always be part of your dose, for addiction or whatever. I feel like ibogaine HCl cannot provide the entire experience, and the other alkaloids round it all out and make it perfect.”

You said this two weeks after your flood, I think I agree with this sentiment and will probably follow in your footsteps. Your trip sounds powerful in all the right ways.

In regards to some comments earlier about doing so at a clinic, I simply can’t afford it and even if I could it’s just never been my style. I’ve guided enough psychedelic experiences myself and know some pretty trustworthy people I can count on to sit me.

@Xorkoth Idk if I’m blind but can’t find your report right this sec if you get a sec and can link it! Did you eat at all during those 3 days? How incapacitated were you? How much supervision is needed each day? (Do they need to just be in the background?)

Can one smoke cannabis immediately after? Or will I not want to even after half a lifetime of use?

-GC
 
Yeah I feel quite sure the full spectrum of alkaloids has a profound impact on the experience, there are a number of other alkaloids known to be psychoactive in iboga.

No idea about cannabis, I didn't but I wasn't smoking much then. It affected DMT in an extremely profound way. I have heard of others smoking weed, but be cautious.

I was unable to function, really, for 3 full days. On the third day I was up and felt great but although I believed I was back to normal, I was not, at all. I kept dreaming which was overlaying what I was actually seeing and experiencing. I was going in and out of dreams. At one point I got on Bluelight and started typing some posts but although I thought they made sense, they were gibberish. I also typed gibberish texts to my family. I also typed a gibberish email to my boss when I thought it was 5 days after the experience and I was supposed to be back at work, and was terrified that I had broken my brain. I could have really used supervision that day. My friend who had been watching me got off work and came over and brought me to his house and he and my friends had an interesting night experiencing me breaking my sentences in mid-thought from sensible into gibberish. I had various crazy dreams I remember mixed with scenes that really happened. Somehow, though, I thought I was fine. I also had a dream where I was driving around, that was when I was by myself. I am 99% sure I wasn't really drivin around but I very clearly have a memory of backing my car down the driveway. However in that memory it was evening and I was only alone during the morning and afternoon.

As you can see, supervision is required!

here is my report:

Ibogaine (flood dose) - First Time - Into The Flood

** Note: this is really long, quite possibly the longest trip report ever written. I am posting it here before I post it to Erowid, to make sure it is in the best shape possible for publishing there where it will be more widely viewed. Consequently, if you have any feedback or find any...
bluelight.org bluelight.org
 
It's written narrative-style to try to communicate the way I felt during it, as opposed to trip report style. I wrote it starting on day 7 and finished it around day 20 or 21 after the initial dose. I took a bunch of random scribbles of notes for memory hooks whenever I remembered stuff, starting on day 4 (which is when I actually came back to myself fully). It's very long, I hope you enjoy it.
 
So much good info on this ticket, modern day experience. Thanks Xorkoth and GC.

So the only history I have Ibogaine is older text books. So with this info I guess I can conclude that the Bwiti used Microdosing for those night hunts. I wonder if there’s any traditional use of floods.

It’s clear I have a lot more researching. I understand before DM Turner died he was going to write a book on Ibogaine. It makes me wonder if he had any experience on this. His Salvia book is excellent.
 
JackARoe said:
I wonder if there’s any traditional use of floods.
Click to expand...

Not sure about what we consider a flood, however the Bwiti shamans (I have read) will use large doses for their work. I believe I also read that there is a passage into adulthood ceremony involving very high doses.
 
Bwitist smoke canabis.Pygmeys grow bythem selfs and sale it to neighbouring bantu tribes(they are actually slaves of bantu.Their own property.)Apart from that they collect marijuana in the clearings amidst the jungle,which seems grow wild at this places.Some Sativa variety with small buds.Apart from that in Saturday meetings many bwiti churches use also and alcohol in small quantities.But floods are another beer.Read,watch,prepare.....and be ready to die at worst scenario.Trust to your inner feelings what to do.Good luck to your journey
 
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