I fell out with two if my best friends in the same week. Would like input as to whether I'm better without them.

[Eligiu]

So I had two close friends, let's call them H and J. I met both of them in 2016/2017 but only became close in 2017. This will be a very long post so sorry in advance.

H kind of barged into my life during the absolute rock bottom of my meth and heroin addiction and I was grasping at anything that would help at that stage. I'd tried youth drug and alcohol counselling, 12 steps, ORT. You name it, short of rehab (which I couldn't do as no one in my family knew I was using) I had done. One day H spoke to me at a coffee shop and shared just enough about himself that I thought he might be able to help, despite only having known me 'well' for about 6 months through being in the same German class. My old housemate had tried to help me, but he could never tell when I was high, so it was impossible for him to do anything. He thought I used once or twice every few months when it was more like 3-4 times a week as long as I had the money.

At the same time H offered to help I looked into outpatient rehab myself and decided to give it a try and signed onto the waiting list. During the period of waiting he made it pretty clear that he was acting as a sort of 'non 12 step sponsor' - he made himself and his home available to me (sans narcotics but tolerable if I'd just used and he picked me up) available essentially 24/7. He would meet me at uni to hang out if I was getting cravings to stop me from buying drugs. This continued into me going to outpatient - he was extremely keen on offering me advice and seemed to pride himself on it. The only rule was my honesty.

He also figured out very quickly that there was a lot of trauma in my life. When we met up to sort of set up the 'helping arrangement' and any rules he asked me what my childhood was like and I was as honest as I could be (I was far from ready to talk about it) but my answers gave him everything he needed to know.

Now, H had a bit of a habit of shunting me and my needs to the side whenever he got into a particularly serious relationship and telling me I had everything sorted (despite the fact that I well and truly didn't - the outpatient programme let me overstay my welcome because my trauma was ongoing and they knew if they graduated me I would be using again within days so I ended up staying in a 4 month treatment programme for 2 years before finding individual counselling in the form of a trauma informed drug and alcohol social worker. Aside from the social worker, my main help was H because as soon as the relationship was over, he'd slip back into helping me like he never even left.

After around 2 years when I was doing some reading on cPTSD online I came across something called the Karpman Drama Triangle (search online if you want) where there is essentially a persecutor (in my case, my family of origin), the victim (me, somewhat unwillingly at this stage once I realised what was happening) and a rescuer (H, who had the unfortunate habit of delivering hour long lectures to me about my past mistakes, complex family issues, trauma, and lifelong victimisation). I desperately wanted out of this situation so I tried to turn H into a coach who could assist me when necessary, but only when solicited. I had... Mixed results. Sometimes it seemed like the only reason he called me was to talk about my issues for an hour even when I didn't bring them up and really just wanted to chat about him, or we'd go out to dinner and on returning to my place he would bring up my family situation which I didn't want to discuss but felt obligated to. I was getting enough help in therapy. I didn't need him stepping in with his desire to 'get rid of my dad for me' or whatever else he came up with.

He started dating a woman 2-3 years who who he spent $15,000 getting out of a pretty extreme DV relationship with an IV meth user (same ROA as me) and very quickly within 6 months was talking about marrying her and moved in with her and her 2 kids. I've heard and witnessed him do and say, let's say, questionable things to the kids including giving the silent treatment to the 7 year old because he wanted to sit with his biological dad at a sport game, as well as frequently yelling at them when a stern voice would suffice. At one stage he used the money he spent in an argument against the woman and was displeased when I pointed out that was financially abusive.

Over time his tolerance to my drug use waned. I overdosed on Xmas Day 2019 and told him 2 weeks later, but multiple times throughout the year he would tell me he wished that the ex partner would die of a meth OD and would refer to the drug users down the street as 'IV meth addicts' as if that somehow made them more irritating, which I find hard to believe. Anyone who is solidly addicted to meth will be a pain in the ass. He didn't really seem to consider how those comments affected me, and in the end when I slipped up in March 2019 for once I just didn't tell him until 9 months later. The real change happened when I tapered off Suboxone. I started resented going to the chemist every day and came off too early and slipped up almost immediately (around April 2021) and true to form I told him, like I was meant to. He just said 'I'm sorry I'm not able to be around to help right now, we are moving houses and it's flat out.' From that moment on though, something between us changed. We'd been hitting the gym once a week for 3 months before that (coicidentally also the only time I felt like the friendship was equal as well, maybe because in the gym I actually knew more and was the one with the advice, but also there was a lack of discussion about any of my issues in any depth. Just two guys at the gym). He went from talking to me during the day a few times and responding to texts within a day to taking a full week to reply, if that. And leaving me hanging on pretty important messages. This lasted around 8 months. I made it clear during the 8 months I wanted more contact (purely as a friend - phone calls for updates about his life, coffee to keep up to date with him and his family) but I was constantly rebuffed. I asked him for serious help twice during that time (once to do with family, another self-harm for his nursing experience) and he gave me a call to check on me both nights. When I slipped up on heroin after 3 years and told him he didn't even reply, and at one stage when I did see him during that period I mentioned thinking I was done with meth as I'd made it a year and he sort of just agreed then shut the conversation down. After I self harmed he told me if I did it again he would get me admitted to the hospital by getting on the phone with the doctor assessing me and explaining how much of a risk I was to myself (I have been turned away 8 times in 5 years while suicidal and in psychosis and the only time they kept me overnight was when my old housemate stayed at the hospital with me for 8 hours. H knew all this information).

Cutting to 3 weeks ago, the cause of our friendship breakdown. I was prescribed a trial of Dexamphetamine for Narcolepsy and then had to come off it while waiting for official approval due to my substance use history (which is soon to be authorised this week). The stimulant withdrawal triggered a depressive episode, and other life stress (family, etc) caused me to relapse into cutting, and consider what I did the last time that required me contacting H, which was a 3rd degree burn. I desperately wanted to avoid that so I asked him for help. His response was... Bizarre. I'm on the National Disability Insurance Scheme in Australia for level 3 autism and cptsd and bipolar, but my level of funding is 50% of what it should be. H was very supportive of me getting NDIS and even wrote a support letter when I asked, discussing my many issues during when we'd known eachother. I'd told him a week prior to this I was initiating a review for the correct funding, and applying for Short Term Accommodation to have to utilise instead of the hospital psych unit. He agreed it was a good idea. In his response though, he told me to use my funding (which he knew I couldn't afford) and when I said I couldn't afford it (a 5 day stay costs me a month and a half of daily support workers and I can't justify that until I have the right amount) he told me to do a review that he already knew I was doing. Then he said he wasn't my 'case manager' but he'd see what he could do.

Well I might be pretty autistic but I picked up on the cues. I asked a different friend (A) who happened to have experience getting admitted to inpatient at this exact hospital and they offered to come with me and stay. A stayed from 4pm - midnight. I kept H updated at reasonable hours, but their weird response was bugging me. Originally I was getting sent home (and again, I didn't pester H I just accepted my fate until I spoke to the dead nurse and said something so concerning it caused me to get reassessed) but then I was admitted to the short stay unit. I waited a few hours, then texted H. I asked him if the original 'promise' was a promise or a threat, and that I was really confused by his response as it seemed like I was putting him in a difficult position by asking him to follow through on something he'd promise not 2 months prior. He firstly responded by telling me he was 'sorry I was confused' which is a bit of a non apology where you blame the person for their feelings, but then he went on to just dodge the question I asked and tell me why he couldn't help (too busy with XYZ, doesn't want to, wants to be my friend not my case worker, said it felt like he was being asked to be a case worker). I accepted all of that and told him and said that's why I asked Alex, but then asked again why he would make a promise or a threat then ask as though I've somehow done something wrong - I pointed out I've never asked him to do this in 5 years of friendship as there was never an explicit offer and I only asked because I thought he wanted to help. He continued dodging the question. Eventually I tired of it and told him I get really agitated when people say one thing and do another and their actions don't match their words (both autism and trauma and he and I have talked about this before) plus I was sick to death of all his broken promises over the past 3 months of phone calls and catching up one on one like we used too or getting coffee. I told him that if he hadn't made the offer then I wouldn't have made myself vulnerable thinking I had someone to help me and he wouldn't have felt like he was being used as a case worker and we would have both been happier. I told him I'd talk to him in a few days when I got out and he did a thumbs up.

When I got out he then basically said I had 'acted like an asshole, guilt tripped him, and tried to blame him for an outcome I wanted but didn't get.'

To this day I remain confused as my only desired outcome was getting admitted and I actually ended up doing it even without A. I ripped into H for not apologising for his own part in what transpired, as I did say sorry for not being able to let go of the 'actions don't match words' thing, but I got zero out of him. Our final interaction was me telling him that I'd spoken to a bunch of friends and told them what happened and they all said he gaslit me, then emotionally manipulated me and generally just treated me poorly so I wanted to have a discussion with him about his thoughts on that. He said 'goodbye mate don't message me again.' and deleted me, then his partner blocked me on Facebook (which I find odd since he didn't and I can actually still message him).

Am I right in thinking this friendship was kind of fucked and I'm better without it? When I realised we weren't friends anymore I had a wave of relief across my body and I realised my severe anxiety over the past 10 months was due to feeling like a (therapy term) disorganised attachment to someone I had only just managed to finally form a secure attachment with after 4 years. Now I don't worry about whether he actually likes me or just pities me. He and I aren't friends anymore so who cares.

**H had a habit of 'joking' about inappropriately touching me because it made me desperately uncomfortable due to trauma and on once occasion actually did the exact thing that is a major trigger for me. No apology. I actually apologised for almost punching him. Getting an apology out of H was like pulling teeth.

J I was closer to and also didn't have a sponsor relationship with. But he had a hard on for H because H was in the military and advised him to work in national security, which he did. J and I talked way more than J and H did and although we had fights, we generally resolved them. J immediately sided with H and said I was 'emotionally manipulative' even after I pointed out that immediately problem solving and asking someone else for help instead of staying home and self-harming is the literal opposite of emotional manipulation. He also didn't see the issue in H dodging the question and said he was probably 'tired of helping' even though H and my only interactions between the promise and the hospital was him coming to my bday, and me helping him paint his house for two days. I found out during this argument that J recently called H during his and my last argument where he was asking me why I'm 'more autistic' since getting diagnosed (I stopped/lost the ability to mask and realised I was happier being myself) and then said 'why can't you go back to the way you were before? This new retarded version of you is annoying.'

I told him he could apologise for that, or stop being my friend because I'm not going back to being that suicidal ever. I was put under suicide watch at community mental health care for autistic burnout. Apparently he needed to call H to vent about me and get input into whether I was worth apologising to over that (which is also the only time I've ever asked him to apologise, I had a nasty habit of always apologising no matter who messed up just to smooth things over).

J also said my 'overreliance on people ruins my relationships with them.' I was over-reliant on H and J in the past. But that was long gone. I asked H for help 3 times in 12 months, the other two times he was perfectly happy to help, and I stopped asking J for help after he asked me not to since he lived interstate and felt powerless to help. I was underreliant on friends this year to the extent of a nasty 6 month long opiate relapse ending with heroin and a planned heroin OD following my brother's wedding that nobody knew about and many of my friends still are unaware of.

J then said I 'needed to stop waiting for everyone else to do things to help me and start helping myself.' This really frustrated me because H's promise was based on my many unsuccessful attempts without an advocate into getting admitted, with him knowing that information. In spite of that, I actually did do it myself. I also got onto Suboxone myself after using heroin, then stopped my OD and referred myself to Mental Health Triage and the Urgent Mental Health Care Centre for acute suicidal behaviour. I got referred to community mental health by myself, then to something called the National Psychosocial Support Measure which I asked for since they help with NDIS applications. I did the bulk of my NDIS application myself (something which most disabled people can't do without an advocate) which included attending multitudes of medical appointments and assessments and organising all of that and the evidence and reports I needed. So in the past 6 months I have gotten myself from a planned OD to having a $75,000 (and that's the low version) NDIS plan which allows me to attend various therapies I need to survive and thrive and have the support workers 5-6 times a week that I need to function as well as pay for cleaning. I did that on my own, without any suggestions. So I quite frankly feel insulted that he believes I've spent the last year jerking off and waiting for people to save me when I've proved time and time again that I can and do help myself.

I told him that all of my friends thought H really screwed me, and some of them think he's a really average person (I later found out a bunch of my friends viewed him as having a bit of a saviour complex with me, as well as being extremely arrogant and conceited. They only tolerated him because I idolised him for saving my life).

I cut it off with J but I told him why. I explained that H actually held me back and I'd had weird vibes in the friendship for years which I tried to change but to no avail, and that it seemed he only wanted to be my friend when he got something out of it, and that the last 10 months of our friendship made me realise the only other person in my life I've had such mixed messages from are my dad, which is a pretty poor effort from a so called friend, and someone who called me one of his best mates at that. I pointed out that I found out he bought a house through social media, and that all my best efforts at just being a friend were ignored or thrown to the side. He even basically ignored me the one time I went to his step kids soccer game in August and just spoke with his partner and I'm like 'I get panic attacks leaving the house and I came here to see you, you aren't even gonna chat with me?' To get him to even come to my 2 hour long birthday breakfast I had to invite his partner, otherwise he was basically disinterested. All my other friends came without partners.

H also made a comment about my autism saying he thought I was 'overdiagnosed' (i.e not level 3 socially). This was really hurtful as my disgnosis was a structured interview based off my lived experiences with a woman who has 15 years experience in disgnosis of women and transgender (me) people who are diagnosed as adults. I sent him a decent text explaining why what he said was crappy because I told her all the stuff I do in private at home regarding my social abilities that my friends don't know about (like bash myself in the head calling myself retarded for talking too much or too little or sending a text that might be annoying or basically just communicating at all) and pointed out that I am situationally mute - and he's witnessed it. No response, not even an acknowledgement.

I'm sorry this was so long. I did do a bunch of journalling about it after I slipped up and used meth for the first time in ages after falling out with these two, but I tend to rely on meth to do some very introspective journalling. I wrote them both open letters they'll obviously never read which got some stuff off my chest.

What do you guys think? Am I better off without these guys? I'm not saying the entire friendships were bad - I think a big part of the issue was them moving forwards with life and me finally getting kneecapped by multiple disabilties. J was never very sympathetic about any of my issues, everytime I had a mood episode he would blame me for it (as if I somehow have control over my bipolar). H was better, but a not insignificant part of me wonders whether helping me was really done out of goodness, because he seemed to really get a kick out of being introduced to my friends (who obviously all knew who he was and would go 'oh you're H I've heard good things about you) yet curiously, I only met H's friends once at his 30th birthday and he kept his life completely seperated from mine, but wanted to meet all my friends. It was kind of odd.

Anyway enough rambling. Thoughts? Advice on how to progress through this? Losing friends is as close to a romantic break up as I'll ever get as I don't date. How long will I keep thinking about them for on a daily basis?

 

[arrall]

I just woke up so I'm going to write up a full response once I eat breakfast. For now, I'll leave you with this:

I'm so sorry that you have to go through all of that. You did not deserve any of this. J and H sound like horrible "friends" and you deserve way better than how they treated you. It certainly sounds like you're better off without them.

I can relate to some of this as I also have CPTSD + bipolar and have had somewhat similar experiences with shitty "friends" like H who were manipulative, self-centered, and not there for me when I needed them. I know that this kind of stuff can certainly trigger attachment trauma.

Please reach out to anyone you know who can support you, whether it's another friend like A or even just us here on Bluelight. Your priority right now should be to maximize your mental health and minimize the negative impact of what happened with H and J. Do whatever you need to do to do that. Ideally you would also prevent any further relapses right now, but do not be hard on yourself about things already in the past like using meth for journaling.

Hope you are doing okay and hope this helps!

 

[axe battler]

This is a difficult question I suppose as it could have very varied outcomes.
You did say it yourself that it feels like a relief that your friendship seems over. This may be the case but what I think you should probably try and do is just give eachother some space and hang out with people who don't cause you to feel so frustrated and emotional; it sounds like you have people like this in your life.

Maybe H has a saviour complex. It does sound like they've done a lot for you in the past but you can't let that excuse them winding you up for the rest of your life.

Does a friendship have to be totally "on or off" the way a romantic relationship is? Maybe H is giving you a sign that he's feeling a bit suffocated? I don't know them but it sounds like you might be putting a lot of pressure on the friendship. Please don't take that the wrong way, H might just want to spend more time with other people.

Some of the things H & J said about your addiction, and especially about your autism aren't at all cool though, and if you have got more positive people in your life I would spend time with them and let H and J get back to you (hopefully to apologise), then see how things go.

Take care

 

[Eligiu]

Yeah look it's just been such an odd experience with the responses I got back from both of them. I've been chatting to other friends since this all went down (interestingly several people who have experienced dealing with narcissistic people) and their first read on the entire situation is that H is clearly a narcissist, which I can definitely kind of see. He has... A lot of the traits and the massive insecurities that go alongside it.

My opinion? Like all narcissistic people he likes making promises that make himself feel good and in control - 'I'll get you sectioned if you self harm again' ('helping me' while controlling me). It explains why his initial reaction was so bizarre (dismissing my request for help, as the appropriate response if he couldn't help because he was too busy would have been 'I'm sorry I can't help today, can you reach out to someone else's even if he had just changed his mind, because that at least would have been helpful). He knows how the NDIS works and knows there's no way I got extra funding in a week. My friend reckons he was deliberately a dick to me because he had zero intention of fulfilling the promise, so when I asked him to he dismissed it hoping I'd just forget he offered and wouldn't read into it. But there's no way I'd forget a promise that massive. So then his next step was to dodge the question and gaslight me because he didn't want to admit he was never intending on honouring it.

And at the end of it all, because he can't just admit he fucked up, he had to twist it all around on me like I was my fault. He sort of showed his true colours when I told him I'd spoken to other people about what he'd done and showed them the conversation. Instead of engaging me in a back and forth about at which stage he gaslit me, he realised I finally saw the truth (or was going to, with the help of friends) and that the relationship was doomed. I can't emphasise how many of my friends thought his behaviour was full on narciccistic and toxic and told me to get him out of my life.

J? He is just enabling it. He's projecting his own issues of my past over-reliance on him into the current situation - I didn't even tell him I was in the psych unit until I was leaving, that's how uninvolved he was, yet he still somehow made it about him and how much he had helped me over the years. Like dude, you didn't know I planned to OD, you didn't know I was suicidal again, just like you asked.

A lot of the stuff he said made me feel like he just keeps me around to feel good about his own fragile mental health because I'm more obviously fucked up, but both of those dudes need intensive therapy, because they've experienced some real traumatic shit and have their own unhealthy ways of coping, whereas I do therapy once a week.

It's mindblowing to me that all my other friends viewed the autistic mentally ill guy as the valid, reasonable person and the two 'healthy and normal' people as emotionally manipulative and dismissive.

Thanks for your kind words. I'm hoping to squeeze 2 final sessions out of my social worker to get a handle on this and I know having my dexamphetamine (which I didn't abuse on the trial) will help me get back to normal as I rely on keeping the dose low to keep the medication working for the longest I can as it's my last option.

 

[Eligiu]

This is a difficult question I suppose as it could have very varied outcomes.
You did say it yourself that it feels like a relief that your friendship seems over. This may be the case but what I think you should probably try and do is just give eachother some space and hang out with people who don't cause you to feel so frustrated and emotional; it sounds like you have people like this in your life.

Maybe H has a saviour complex. It does sound like they've done a lot for you in the past but you can't let that excuse them winding you up for the rest of your life.

Does a friendship have to be totally "on or off" the way a romantic relationship is? Maybe H is giving you a sign that he's feeling a bit suffocated? I don't know them but it sounds like you might be putting a lot of pressure on the friendship. Please don't take that the wrong way, H might just want to spend more time with other people.

Some of the things H & J said about your addiction, and especially about your autism aren't at all cool though, and if you have got more positive people in your life I would spend time with them and let H and J get back to you (hopefully to apologise), then see how things go.

Take care

I've thought a lot about what it could have been to push H away from me and it was night and day when I told him about the opiate use. Literally he was asking me how the taper was going every single day every evening I'd get a text message with a question about it and I'd update him. And while we were at the gym he'd message me randomly on other days for an extra session. I've genuinely thought about him feeling suffocated but compared to how much I *used* to interact with him, this year was really negligible. And I made it clear I wanted it to be sans 'helping' which he seemed to want, but not want at the same time.

He didn't seem to have an issue being in contact with me when I needed help with something, that much was clear. Nor when he wanted me to spend 8 hours a day for 3 days straight helping him paint the bedrooms in his new house, he asked me to come the extra two days after I came on the Monday.

The last year of our relationship had a really weird dynamic. I had zero phone calls even if I didn't contact him for weeks, then I got two in a week, then nothing else for the rest of the 8 months of weirdness. And his standoffishness about my birthday - didn't respond to the text asking if he wanted to come with a yes or a no until I said his partner would come, then he said yes straight away (and proceeded to joke about touching me inappropriately while ignoring every effort I made to engage him in communication).

I think I outgrew him and his behaviour. The broken promises were endless, and I spoke to him endlessly about it - I don't care if you can't do something, but if you're 50/50 or you're unsure or don't want to, just be upfront about it because I actually prefer that. Instead, I just got lots of nice words, which I didn't believe at all.

 

[arrall]

Hey @Eligiu. Happy New Year and hope you are doing well! I apologize for not finishing my response earlier. Here are my thoughts on the situation:

After around 2 years when I was doing some reading on cPTSD online I came across something called the Karpman Drama Triangle (search online if you want) where there is essentially a persecutor (in my case, my family of origin), the victim (me, somewhat unwillingly at this stage once I realised what was happening) and a rescuer (H, who had the unfortunate habit of delivering hour long lectures to me about my past mistakes, complex family issues, trauma, and lifelong victimisation). I desperately wanted out of this situation so I tried to turn H into a coach who could assist me when necessary, but only when solicited. I had... Mixed results. Sometimes it seemed like the only reason he called me was to talk about my issues for an hour even when I didn't bring them up and really just wanted to chat about him, or we'd go out to dinner and on returning to my place he would bring up my family situation which I didn't want to discuss but felt obligated to. I was getting enough help in therapy. I didn't need him stepping in with his desire to 'get rid of my dad for me' or whatever else he came up with.

(I later found out a bunch of my friends viewed him as having a bit of a saviour complex with me, as well as being extremely arrogant and conceited. They only tolerated him because I idolised him for saving my life).

I think you really hit the nail on the head here. H clearly has a massive savior complex and was using you to fill that and make himself into a "hero" in his mind.

**H had a habit of 'joking' about inappropriately touching me because it made me desperately uncomfortable due to trauma and on once occasion actually did the exact thing that is a major trigger for me. No apology. I actually apologised for almost punching him. Getting an apology out of H was like pulling teeth.

This is disgusting and completely not okay on H's part. Joking about doing this is awful, and actually doing it is completely despicable. Nobody who does this kind of shit deserves to remain in your life. I'm really sorry that you had to not only deal with that past trauma but to then deal with H intentionally triggering it.

It's mindblowing to me that all my other friends viewed the autistic mentally ill guy as the valid, reasonable person and the two 'healthy and normal' people as emotionally manipulative and dismissive.

That is because your autism and mental illnesses do not stop you from being kind to others and treating them with basic respect.

H's narcissism seems to lead him to not only be unable to treat others or their boundaries with basic respect, but to get joy from said disrespect.

J is an enabler and someone who lacks proper respect and empathy for people with autism and/or mental health issues.

Their (presumable) lack of diagnosed mental disorders does not make them "healthy and normal". Given their behavior, I would argue that H especially certainly is not healthy or normal.

And your mental health issues and autism certainly do not mean that you cannot be "healthy and normal". Whether or not you are at that point right now given your current struggles is for you to judge. But I would advise you try to see yourself as someone very capable of reaching that point with a bit of time and hard work even with your diagnoses.

What I mean with that is not that you do not go through a lot with your trauma, addiction, autism, and mental health struggles, but that I believe that you have the strength to succeed and prevail despite those issues that you have been facing.

Yeah look it's just been such an odd experience with the responses I got back from both of them. I've been chatting to other friends since this all went down (interestingly several people who have experienced dealing with narcissistic people) and their first read on the entire situation is that H is clearly a narcissist, which I can definitely kind of see. He has... A lot of the traits and the massive insecurities that go alongside it.

My opinion? Like all narcissistic people he likes making promises that make himself feel good and in control - 'I'll get you sectioned if you self harm again' ('helping me' while controlling me). It explains why his initial reaction was so bizarre (dismissing my request for help, as the appropriate response if he couldn't help because he was too busy would have been 'I'm sorry I can't help today, can you reach out to someone else's even if he had just changed his mind, because that at least would have been helpful). He knows how the NDIS works and knows there's no way I got extra funding in a week. My friend reckons he was deliberately a dick to me because he had zero intention of fulfilling the promise, so when I asked him to he dismissed it hoping I'd just forget he offered and wouldn't read into it. But there's no way I'd forget a promise that massive. So then his next step was to dodge the question and gaslight me because he didn't want to admit he was never intending on honouring it.

And at the end of it all, because he can't just admit he fucked up, he had to twist it all around on me like I was my fault. He sort of showed his true colours when I told him I'd spoken to other people about what he'd done and showed them the conversation. Instead of engaging me in a back and forth about at which stage he gaslit me, he realised I finally saw the truth (or was going to, with the help of friends) and that the relationship was doomed. I can't emphasise how many of my friends thought his behaviour was full on narciccistic and toxic and told me to get him out of my life.

J? He is just enabling it. He's projecting his own issues of my past over-reliance on him into the current situation - I didn't even tell him I was in the psych unit until I was leaving, that's how uninvolved he was, yet he still somehow made it about him and how much he had helped me over the years. Like dude, you didn't know I planned to OD, you didn't know I was suicidal again, just like you asked.

A lot of the stuff he said made me feel like he just keeps me around to feel good about his own fragile mental health because I'm more obviously fucked up, but both of those dudes need intensive therapy, because they've experienced some real traumatic shit and have their own unhealthy ways of coping, whereas I do therapy once a week.

What do you guys think? Am I better off without these guys? I'm not saying the entire friendships were bad - I think a big part of the issue was them moving forwards with life and me finally getting kneecapped by multiple disabilties. J was never very sympathetic about any of my issues, everytime I had a mood episode he would blame me for it (as if I somehow have control over my bipolar). H was better, but a not insignificant part of me wonders whether helping me was really done out of goodness, because he seemed to really get a kick out of being introduced to my friends (who obviously all knew who he was and would go 'oh you're H I've heard good things about you) yet curiously, I only met H's friends once at his 30th birthday and he kept his life completely seperated from mine, but wanted to meet all my friends. It was kind of odd.

I've grown up with a parent suffering from NPD, had one or two friends I've had to cut off due to them exhibiting NPD-type behavior and treating mutual friends/myself extremely poorly, and been in relationships with people with diagnosed 'cluster B personality'. I've spent a lot of time reading up on NPD, CPTSD, etc. in my recovery.

And I can say that based on what you have said, it is pretty clear that H most likely has a blatant case of NPD.

The need to bring up your personal issues so he could feel like a "savior"/"hero", the gaslighting, his inability to apologize, inability to admit wrongdoing, projection and blaming everything on others, both touching you inappropriately and repeatedly "joking about it" because he knew that that was a trigger for you, 'attention bombing', blaming you for your mood disorder + addiction + mental illness, lies and manipulation, using people either for attention or to help him paint his house, childish silent treatment to a 7-year-old for spending time with their biological father, yelling at his partner's children, financial abuse against his partner, and being judgemental & dismissive of your autism. The list goes on and on.

Everything H has done to you (and to others around him) is reprehensible and I am so sorry that you have had to go through that. This man is not your friend and you deserve far better treatment than what you have received from him.

As for J, he clearly lacks empathy for people struggling with mood disorders, autism, trauma, etc. and does not seem to take these issues seriously. I would suspect that his enabling and his toxicity towards you may involve some level of jealousy on J's part about how close you and H used to be.

Regardless, both of these men are not good friends. They treated you poorly and belittled many of your struggles. J seems like a toxic friend and H seems like a completely and utterly disgusting person. You deserve so much better, and you are far better off without them. Please focus your time and energy on people who give you the empathy, love, and respect that you deserve.

Hope this helps,
arrall

 

[G_Chem]

While I’m not going to re-read ALL of the same story only more detailed from the other posts, I see once again a lot of depending on these people to fix your problems based on the skimming. Just because someone helps you doesn’t mean they signed a contract that requires they be there to hold your hand every step of the way. (Or as you say “took the role of your sponsor”) When your buddy gets a gf, guess what? That girl supersedes you and your problems.

Idk bothers me how much these friends have done for you from all the reading yet they’re all assholes that still haven’t done enough.. Someone brings you into their home to help you get clean cuz you don’t wanna tell mommy and daddy, you better not start bitching once he’s burnt out of being a free caretaker.

I don’t have much sympathy for this attitude of everyone needs to drop what their doing and make sure I’m alright or else they aren’t a good friend. As I said before people got their own shit going on, it’s 2022, you can’t expect all your friends to carry you along.

Now buck up, tell your family you have addiction issues like the rest of us had to, and get some real help instead of throwing it all onto “friends.”

-GC

 

[Eligiu]

While I’m not going to re-read a lot of the same story only more detailed from the other posts, I see once again a lot of depending on these people to fix your problems. Just because someone helps you doesn’t mean they signed a contract that requires they be there to hold your hand every step of the way. When your buddy gets a gf, guess what? That girl supersedes you and your problems.

Idk bothers me how much these friends have done for you from all the reading yet they’re all assholes that still haven’t done enough.. Someone brings you into their home to help you get clean cuz you don’t wanna tell mommy and daddy, you better not start bitching once he’s burnt out of being a free caretaker.

I don’t have much sympathy for this attitude of everyone needs to drop what their doing and make sure I’m alright or else they aren’t a good friend. As I said before people got their own shit going on, you can’t expect all your friends to carry you along.

Now buck up, tell your family you have addiction issues like the rest of us had to, and get some real help instead of throwing it all onto “friends.”

-GC

Lol did you even read my post? I haven't used him for help with my addiction for 2 years - I just did what he always asked me to do and be honest. What caused the issue was asking him to fulfill a promise that he made not even two months prior to me asking him to follow through on it - it's pretty normal to be confused by a 180 on that. Maybe actually read the post to get the details because you sound like an idiot having an opinion on something you didn't bother reading. Not to mention, most ERs prefer you bring someone in with you when you're suicidal because it means they don't have to waste resources sticking a security guard on your door. My other friend was more than happy to come, I asked H to *maybe* make the phone call he promised to make, then he gaslit me and pretended he never said it to begin with and dodged my question of trying to establish why he would do that and clear the air about how I would have preferred that he only say he would do things he actually wanted to do so I wouldn't put him in a situation he didn't want to be in. He didn't want to admit he fucked up, that's his problem. I never wanted to upset him, but he dug his own grave.

NGL all my actual friends have the same opinion as the other poster who said he's a narcissist and they actually met him in person and had interactions with him over 5 years. Seems like you're dead set on misinterpreting me.

My parents have fuck all idea of how to deal with addiction, that's why I did outpatient on my own, and did all the other counselling on my own and continue to do so, I'm glad you have a good relationship with your parents but one of mine sexually abused me, so forgive me for not wanting fuck all to do with him lmfao. They know I had drug issues from 17-19. I kept them in the dark after that because of how poorly they handled it. They're shit with it, and I have other friends who are willing to help, so I'll take their help. I do all the work myself, I can't even list how much I've done. I relied on him for like 1 year in terms of staying at his house (probably 3 times all up). After that it was phone calls here and there (maybe 5 in a year specifically about this issue), and by 3 years I'd just update him on any issues and go to my social worker instead. He demanded this level of honesty and I was punished for not reaching out to him in the form of silent treatment and degrading lectures. Mind you, he consistently kept butting in with unsolicited advice the entire time, which the post you didn't read goes into depth about.

Get a fucking grip dude. 'Oh I'm not going to read the extensively detailed post but I sure will write an opinion on something I didn't read in depth' fuckin laughing at that mate.

You literally sound like another one of my ex friends who doesn't think friends are in your life to help alongside all the other shit they do. I've sat in an ER for 12 hours with a suicidal friend. I've let friends crash on my couch when they've needed to not be at home by themselves. That's literally what friends do for eachother. And I'd have no issue doing it again. Sorry you have shitty friends maybe?

 

[G_Chem]

Lol did you even read my post? I haven't used him for help with my addiction for 2 years - I just did what he always asked me to do and be honest. What caused the issue was asking him to fulfill a promise that he made not even two months prior to me asking him to follow through on it - it's pretty normal to be confused by a 180 on that. Maybe actually read the post to get the details because you sound like an idiot having an opinion on something you didn't bother reading. Not to mention, most ERs prefer you bring someone in with you when you're suicidal because it means they don't have to waste resources sticking a security guard on your door. My other friend was more than happy to come, I asked H to *maybe* make the phone call he promised to make, then he gaslit me and pretended he never said it to begin with and dodged my question of trying to establish why he would do that and clear the air about how I would have preferred that he only say he would do things he actually wanted to do so I wouldn't put him in a situation he didn't want to be in. He didn't want to admit he fucked up, that's his problem. I never wanted to upset him, but he dug his own grave.

NGL all my actual friends have the same opinion as the other poster who said he's a narcissist and they actually met him in person and had interactions with him over 5 years. Seems like you're dead set on misinterpreting me.

My parents have fuck all idea of how to deal with addiction, that's why I did outpatient on my own, and did all the other counselling on my own and continue to do so, I'm glad you have a good relationship with your parents but one of mine sexually abused me, so forgive me for not wanting fuck all to do with him lmfao. They know I had drug issues from 17-19. I kept them in the dark after that because of how poorly they handled it. They're shit with it, and I have other friends who are willing to help, so I'll take their help. I do all the work myself, I can't even list how much I've done. I relied on him for like 1 year in terms of staying at his house (probably 3 times all up). After that it was phone calls here and there (maybe 5 in a year specifically about this issue), and by 3 years I'd just update him on any issues and go to my social worker instead. He demanded this level of honesty and I was punished for not reaching out to him in the form of silent treatment and degrading lectures. Mind you, he consistently kept butting in with unsolicited advice the entire time, which the post you didn't read goes into depth about.

Get a fucking grip dude. 'Oh I'm not going to read the extensively detailed post but I sure will write an opinion on something I didn't read in depth' fuckin laughing at that mate.

You literally sound like another one of my ex friends who doesn't think friends are in your life to help alongside all the other shit they do. I've sat in an ER for 12 hours with a suicidal friend. I've let friends crash on my couch when they've needed to not be at home by themselves. That's literally what friends do for eachother. And I'd have no issue doing it again. Sorry you have shitty friends maybe?

Friends can be there for those things but when you start going through life expecting those things your not living in reality. You sound like the latter. Doing those things with the expectation others will always get you in return isn’t truly giving. It’s supposed “help” with strings attached. And frankly it’s not being a good friend, quite the opposite.

I help others constantly but never once do I feel they owe me help if I’m in need. They usually will (because that’s what happens in friendships without unsaid expectations) but I don’t get mad and make multiple posts online looking for validation if they don’t. I fully believe in karma, not on keeping tabs.

-GC

 

[arrall]

While I’m not going to re-read ALL of the same story only more detailed from the other posts, I see once again a lot of depending on these people to fix your problems based on the skimming. Just because someone helps you doesn’t mean they signed a contract that requires they be there to hold your hand every step of the way. (Or as you say “took the role of your sponsor”) When your buddy gets a gf, guess what? That girl supersedes you and your problems.

Idk bothers me how much these friends have done for you from all the reading yet they’re all assholes that still haven’t done enough.. Someone brings you into their home to help you get clean cuz you don’t wanna tell mommy and daddy, you better not start bitching once he’s burnt out of being a free caretaker.

I don’t have much sympathy for this attitude of everyone needs to drop what their doing and make sure I’m alright or else they aren’t a good friend. As I said before people got their own shit going on, it’s 2022, you can’t expect all your friends to carry you along.

Now buck up, tell your family you have addiction issues like the rest of us had to, and get some real help instead of throwing it all onto “friends.”

-GC

@G_Chem, with all due respect - and while I usually quite like your responses here on BL - this take is fucking awful and completely out of line.

This is SLR, not the Lounge, and you should certainly not be responding to people who need advice and are struggling with an accusation that they are entitled/lazy/etc. when you won't even take the time to read the full post.

I'll summarize the issue here:
OP's former friend H is a narcissist who (in addition to throwing child-like rage-fueled temper tantrums at people for not doing exactly what he wants) also emotionally abuses OP, their partner (who they also financially abuse), and their partner's 7-year-old child. They also think it is okay to intentionally trigger OP's trauma by touching them inappropriately. H has a savior complex and would pressure OP to talk about their trauma and used to constantly take it upon himself to help OP, but now was not there when OP needed his support (as a friend should be.)

He demanded this level of honesty and I was punished for not reaching out to him in the form of silent treatment and degrading lectures. Mind you, he consistently kept butting in with unsolicited advice the entire time, which the post you didn't read goes into depth about.

The need to bring up your personal issues so he could feel like a "savior"/"hero", the gaslighting, his inability to apologize, inability to admit wrongdoing, projection and blaming everything on others, both touching you inappropriately and repeatedly "joking about it" because he knew that that was a trigger for you, 'attention bombing', blaming you for your mood disorder + addiction + mental illness, lies and manipulation, using people either for attention or to help him paint his house, childish silent treatment to a 7-year-old for spending time with their biological father, yelling at his partner's children, financial abuse against his partner, and being judgemental & dismissive of your autism. The list goes on and on.

Everything H has done to you (and to others around him) is reprehensible and I am so sorry that you have had to go through that. This man is not your friend and you deserve far better treatment than what you have received from him.

As you can see, a real stand-up guy you were defending.

Their other former friend, J, is an enabler and belittles OP for their mental illness and addiction and does not seem to emphasize with or understand either.

Neither of those people you defended are good people.

As for telling OP to go to their parents, they mention quite a few times in this thread that they have CPTSD and imply that it was caused by trauma related to one of their parents (As CPTSD usually is.) So again, this could have been avoided with a few minutes of reading.

I don't think you're a bad guy or that you had bad intentions here, but by not taking the time to read the post you ended up giving terrible advice, attacking a victim, and defending abusers.

When you're on SLR/a serious forum of a nature as sensitive as SLR, just wait until you have the 5 minutes to read through everything before you post. It will result in much better situations for everyone involved. Because now you wrote an angry misinformed rant, OP was (understandably) quite pissed and probably hurt by it, all 3 of us have taken time out of our days to write these replies, and nobody involved is in a better mood because of the situation. If you have the time to write a response, you have the time to read all the posts necessary to do so. That's all.

 

[Eligiu]

Friends can be there for those things but when you start going through life expecting those things your not living in reality. You sound like the latter. Doing those things with the expectation others will always get you in return isn’t truly giving. It’s supposed “help” with strings attached. And frankly it’s not being a good friend, quite the opposite.

I help others constantly but never once do I feel they owe me help if I’m in need. They usually will (because that’s what happens in friendships without unsaid expectations) but I don’t get mad and make multiple posts online looking for validation if they don’t. I fully believe in karma, not on keeping tabs.

-GC

At what stage did I say I thought he owed me? If you bothered to read the post you would have seen I immediately asked someone else for help - I asked H for clarification around why he pretended he never made the promise because he had a history of making and breaking promises all the time. That's not friendship. Promising to hang out with someone/saying you'll make time to see them then constantly blowing them off until it suits you (getting free labour) is not friendship. I saw him 3 times in 10 months. Twice he basically ignored me, once was to paint his house.

I asked him to *maybe*, not definitely, help me out *if* I needed it. I didn't end up needing it, but was incredibly confused by his weird response (which you would have read if you bothered to read my post) because all that was actually necessary was saying 'sorry I can't help you today, can you think of someone else who can' instead of knowingly telling me to do something he knew I didn't have the capacity or finances to do, then telling me to fix that, which I was already doing (i.e yet another one of his lectures, just this time delivered in short form). It was incredibly demeaning as I had already informed him I was in the process of organising exactly what it was he advised me to do, but he knew for a fact it would take more than a week. That's why he was actually being a bit of a dick by telling me to do that. Again, if you'd read the post you would have seen that.

Aside from the shit he does to his youngest step kid (witholding food when he sits with biological dad instead of him, witholding food if he orders food he doesn't like because the kid has sensory processing difficulties he won't admit to, yelling at the kids when he could just use a stern voice, calling a 12 year old a dickhead/asshole) he's actually been sort of a massive douchebag to me this entire year when I deliberately tried to exclude him from helping me and have a friendship based upon his life. Again, you would have read that if you bothered to read the post.

So maybe next time read it instead.

Edit: in fact I didn't even ask A for help - I messaged them to ask about the process of getting admitted to the short stay unit and they asked if I wanted them to come and suggested it would be beneficial for me to have them there. I accepted their offer.

I don't go around expecting people to help me all the time. If you'd bothered to read my post you would have seen the massive amount of work I did myself this year alone in order to better my situation. But you didn't - you made an assumption about me based on your prior misconceptions about me from another thread, and that's pretty lazy.

 

[Eligiu]

I wanted to post an update here on some hugely positive things that have happened in my life, following not being friends with H anymore so that people can see I am truly better off without him.



Within a week after H and I fell out, I did some reflection (as shown in the OP) that he did, as I'd suspected for 2 years or so, have a saviour complex. I realised it was just too much of a coincidence that he developed the intense, no boundary relationship he did with me after only 6-8 months of friendship, and then moved on to dropping 15k to get a woman out of DV before starting to date her and moving in with her and her kids within 6 months (and wanting the kids to have his name, not their deadbeat junky dad's name) as soon as he and the woman got married.



Once I realised this, my entire perception of myself as previously being a victim within my family totally shifted - after all, H knew practically nothing about my mum. He knew a lot about my dad, but not her. He also didn't know my brother had done a 180 and decided he was going to corroborate my story if I exposed my dad. I had lunch with my mum and disclosed several instances of terrible parenting (for me, pretty mild stuff but for her pretty confronting) and she agreed, after saying there is no way he would apologise, that no contact was okay. I said if he apologises, we can communicate.



Cut to last Sunday when I have a walk with mum and she tells me that dad has a message for me. I stop her and tell her that no contact means no contact. Not using my mother to deliver messages. I tell her I'll listen just this once.



'He says he loves you and misses you.'



'You can tell him that manipulatively using my mother to send me a message designed to guilt trip is going to work against the first proper boundary I've ever had with you? I have said that all you need to do to be in contact with me is to apologise. Therefore there is no one keeping you from seeing me but yourself. I will not be made to feel bad for protecting myself from someone who repeatedly hurts me and shows no remorse.'



I then added that the things I mentioned to mum were just the start of what he will apologise. Just so he's aware.



Mum asked me if I would like to write down a list of EVERYTHING I want my dad to apologise for, and I tell her that is not a conversation I am ready to have yet, and to be frank nor is she.



Literally all of this happened because He revealed himself for who he truly was. But H served a purpose in my life, there was a reason we met and a reason we stopped being friends.

He came into my life to push me towards thinking about recovery, which I started taking seriously in 2017 (or entertaining the idea of sobriety) after H happened to find me at a coffee store I frequented and sat down with me to question why I haven't turned up for the last weeks of class. I told him I was sick, and he told me not to lie - he said that he knew what I do and how I do it. He said he didn't judge you me for it but it made him worry. Eventually, he convinced me to actually come to class again, sober, for the next two lessons and eventually, I was at least going to German classes sober, if not the rest of the week staying high. The conversation we had also made me reach out to him about considering doing it completely, and he told me that if I wanted to, he would help me to do it. If any of my other classmates were the ones who saw me, they'd have probably believed the lie, as I'd keep my use in uni to a bare minimum so as to function, rather than getting high like I did at home. That one conversation was the reason we met - my choices after that (deciding to quit, going to outpatient) were enough to eventually get me into recovery with H there just to steer me back if I went off course, as did many other of my friends.

In 5 whole years of H pressuring me to talk about my trauma, and when I eventually could, having in depth discussions about it at any chance (sometimes I just wanted to chat about how my dad made me feel and instead I got a full on diatribe of advice that never ever fixed anything), H managed to achieve with a single text message what he had never been able to do before, despite him trying for over half a decade to do so, and the status quo in my family now means for ONCE I am completely in charge of what is happening.

He will never know that losing him as a friend resulted in the biggest breakthrough regarding my dad that I ever could have possibly dreamed of. All because I realised I'd been shoehorned into a box saying 'victim' and I realised it wasn't the right label and never had been.

I may even have had this sooner if it H (and to an extent J) had not been in my ear, reiterating that my situation was hopeless and that I would never be believed.

I gained so much more out of this than H did. I gained a bunch of new friends who reached out to ask if I wanted to hang out with them. Same with older friends I had pushed to the side in favour of *maybe* being able to spend time with H and/or J. And those older friends, unlike H, had actually checked on me throughout last year when I was planing what was meant to be my final, successful, suicide attempt. It made me realise that H and I really stopped being friends in early 2021 when he got stroppy about my slip on opiates - which instead of communicating like a friend and a grown fucking adult - caused him to just completely distance himself and caused relentless anxiety for me, because I couldn't tell whether he liked me or wanted me gone due to how hot and cold he was. He'd ignore me, then help me. He would turn away my friendship, then help me. I'd be trying to ask about him and his life, then he wrote on my NDIS letter that I 'take more than I can give' after I've spent months trying to give just my friendship without needing anything in return.

His last message to me saying 'I'll reach out if I want to but don't hold your breath' was the straw that broke the camels back. He had waited until I'd apologised for repeating my question about why he would make a promise he didn't want to keep multiple times before he jumped on that, because he knows I will ALWAYS apologise whenever there is ANY sign of conflict between me and my friends, because I never want to accept them. It was also a demonstration that he genuinely believed that I was so dependent on him still - even though I hadn't needed his help at all and had only wanted to clarify his odd behaviour - that I would be willing to wait around for him to pull the stick out of his own ass. I decided not to do it.

And instead I decided to get off the stupid drama triangle I'd been stuck on for 5 fucking years and I had to be the persecutor while he got to be the victim. But at least I am finally out and in control of my life like I never have been before.

All thanks to his text, and hard work on my part once I understood what had to be done.

It truly *almost* makes me want to thank him. *almost*.

So there's the update.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I read what you wrote about the narcissistic types. I have known several and I cut off all contact with them, with others I have or had very limited contact, or the ones that live in my city who I have seen in public I just tell them I am busy and cannot talk or now with COVID I just use that as a reason to get away from them.

 

[arrall]

'You can tell him that manipulatively using my mother to send me a message designed to guilt trip is going to work against the first proper boundary I've ever had with you? I have said that all you need to do to be in contact with me is to apologise. Therefore there is no one keeping you from seeing me but yourself. I will not be made to feel bad for protecting myself from someone who repeatedly hurts me and shows no remorse.'

Glad to hear that you are standing up for yourself, that you are trying to work things out with your mother, and that your brother is on your side now.

H served a purpose in my life, there was a reason we met and a reason we stopped being friends.

This is a great way to look at things. Everything that happens on our paths throughout life serves a purpose, no matter how painful said events may be.

All because I realised I'd been shoehorned into a box saying 'victim' and I realised it wasn't the right label and never had been.

You hit the nail right on the head here. You are strong and you are not a victim anymore. You are in control of your situation now.

I may even have had this sooner if it H (and to an extent J) had not been in my ear, reiterating that my situation was hopeless and that I would never be believed.

That is horrible for him to say and I am sorry to hear that. As you have realized, your situation is not hopeless and people will and have believe(d) you.

I gained a bunch of new friends who reached out to ask if I wanted to hang out with them. Same with older friends I had pushed to the side in favour of *maybe* being able to spend time with H and/or J. And those older friends, unlike H, had actually checked on me throughout last year when I was planing what was meant to be my final, successful, suicide attempt.

It's excellent that you have a solid support system now.

And instead I decided to get off the stupid drama triangle I'd been stuck on for 5 fucking years and I had to be the persecutor while he got to be the victim. But at least I am finally out and in control of my life like I never have been before.

All thanks to his text, and hard work on my part once I understood what had to be done.

It truly *almost* makes me want to thank him. *almost*.

So there's the update.

Beautiful update. Thank you for sharing, and very happy to hear that things are going well for you now.

 

[wallywogs]

Personally if I start questioning whether someone should be part of my life that's usually the answer to the question right there...no.

 

[Eligiu]

Personally if I start questioning whether someone should be part of my life that's usually the answer to the question right there...no.

They were both such a big part of my life for such a long time, and had reacted in certain ways to the events that it made me unsure. I'd always been sort of viewed as the 'fucked up and weird' member of the group and they made it seem like without them my life would completely fall apart again. It didn't. But I get what you're saying and that definitely makes sense to me.

 

[hhum4n]

You are better off without both of them in my opinion. I want to preface that I've read everything in this thread but might be missing something since it was a lot of reading.

One thing that doesn't appear in the original post is any sort of appropriate boundaries (I know, much easier said than done) on either side. Having worked in this field for 15 years, when the lines are blurred or do not exist at all each side is prone to feeling trapped and sometimes that results in short-fused senseless breakdowns of the relationship. I'm not excusing any of the inappropriate behavior here, which I'm sure there is even more you left out, however, it might be in your best interest to move on and not dwell. I know this is also easier said that done, but sometimes things just run it's course, and the more that you fixate on something, the more it can negatively affect you. I'm not saying there aren't issues to work through, but make sure whatever review or reflection you are doing is healthy (whatever that standard is for you).

 

[Eligiu]

You are better off without both of them in my opinion. I want to preface that I've read everything in this thread but might be missing something since it was a lot of reading.

One thing that doesn't appear in the original post is any sort of appropriate boundaries (I know, much easier said than done) on either side. Having worked in this field for 15 years, when the lines are blurred or do not exist at all each side is prone to feeling trapped and sometimes that results in short-fused senseless breakdowns of the relationship. I'm not excusing any of the inappropriate behavior here, which I'm sure there is even more you left out, however, it might be in your best interest to move on and not dwell. I know this is also easier said that done, but sometimes things just run it's course, and the more that you fixate on something, the more it can negatively affect you. I'm not saying there aren't issues to work through, but make sure whatever review or reflection you are doing is healthy (whatever that standard is for you.

Actually on that note one of the biggest learning experiences from this is exactly what type of friendships I need to avoid. They were far too intense and then suddenly not, with zero indication for me what had changed (which left my head spinning for almost a year trying to figure out what went wrong). Thankfully what I've now decided is that I truly only want to be friends with people who can set and abide by proper boundaries, not set them and take them away when it suits them, or badly define them. As well as respect my own boundaries - not it be something they get but I don't. And I also only want to be friends with people who are good and direct communicators, as I think that is really healthy in relationships. I don't spend much time thinking about it much at this stage, I've generally moved to reflecting on what gifts I can gain from this - new friends, old friends getting back into contact with me, understanding how important boundaries are and that due to how vulnerable I was at the time, I agreed to things I would never agree to now - like having to text back within a certain period of time lest the texts turn into phone calls and then someone knocking on my door, which now seems nonsensical - and how frustrating it is being in friendships with people who cannot acknowledge their wrongdoing even when it significantly harms you (not just in the case of these two, I stopped being friends with others recently due to the same type of behaviour once I realised I didn't want to tolerate it anymore). Things have changed with my family, I learnt something incredible from a short lived relapse. Honestly I didn't end up too bad.

And the fact is the people I first started being friends with didn't exist anymore, and I grew apart from them which was shown by me wanting to have *just* a friendship but that not being accepted. I'd rather have my current situation than go back to these friendships. I gained too much. I did one last exercise in reflection where I listed all the positives I gained and what I may have lost. And I really didn't lose too much. Since then I've been pretty happy.

 

[pofacedhoe]

OP you sound very fixated on other people, especially telling them your problems. when you give them access to all your flaws and weaknesses then sometimes people will utilise that.

also they will get fed up of constantly having to provide crisis attention and withdraw at some point

also if you feel better without people in your life then duh

 

[Eligiu]

OP you sound very fixated on other people, especially telling them your problems. when you give them access to all your flaws and weaknesses then sometimes people will utilise that.

also they will get fed up of constantly having to provide crisis attention and withdraw at some point

also if you feel better without people in your life then duh

The nature of the relationship meant that I was forced to disclose information under threat of losing their friendship and in such a vulnerable situation I went along with it. And I mean that quite literally. We'd be talking, they'd ask me a question I didn't want to answer and I'd say 'it's complicated' which was my subtle way of inferring I didn't want to discuss it and the response would be 'if it's too complicated then I won't talk to you more.' Due to a lack of close friends given my previous distancing from everyone I would always cave and they knew it. Of course they eventually tired of it, my only regret is that neither of them (well J at least did so I respect him for that and we got along much better post the discussion we had) put their foot down about it. Instead with H any discussion about my drug use was off limits, but he would still want to help with other things. It was immensely confusing and for the whole of last year I tried really hard to get him to be clear about where he stood with no success.

To the point of providing crisis support, in the year leading up to this event neither of the two in question provided any kind of crisis support aside from me asking H to follow through on a promise he had made, knowing full well I had no alternate options to call on. In fact for the better part of 2-3 years it was mainly just intermittent phone calls updating them on the situation after I had sorted it myself. For 2 years they did provide a lot of support, but that petered off as I built a better network for myself - I had never asked him to help me in this way as he had never previously offered. Had he responded to my actual question - which was me attempting to explain to him that I would very much prefer him not making promises he had no intention of keeping, in order for both him and I to be better off, the argument wouldn't have taken place. Unfortunately he didn't want to do that and here we are. It's regrettable, but truly in my last message to him I did say 'please don't say you'll do something and then do the opposite, it puts both you and I in a difficult situation that neither of us want to be in and both of us would have been happier had none of this all taken place' but apparently he took affront to that. I can't do anything about it, really by trying to set my own boundary it sort of set him off, seeing as he was used to being more 'in control' of the relationship.

At the time I wrote the OP I was still confused about the situation, it was only a week or so after it happened. At this stage I've no desire to re-engage and am counting my blessings of being out of that relationship and able to engage in newer (and older) far healthier ones where I was expected to not have any of my own boundaries. It wasn't fun, and it wasn't good for me. I went from keeping everyone at an extreme arms length, to allowing people too close to me and that's just a lesson I had to learn.

Did it help me at the time I got sober? Sure, it helped me get my head straight long enough to go to rehab, but that's where it could have ended, and really should have. Thankfully I've got friends now who are much better at respecting my own boundaries and making theirs very clear, so I've come out of this undoubtedly better off than how I was, it just took me a while to get to that point.