Hypercarbolation?

[SONN]

If anyone here has read Terrence Mckenna's True Hallucinations you'd know about the part where Dennis Mckenna goes crazy for lack of a better term and believes the mushrooms he is on are teaching him things telepathically.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/a4b6c61f00790954.pdf (online pdf)

He hasn't been interviewed that many times about this particular instance and "the experiment at La Chorrera" even though it was like the first time they came up with a lot of the ideas that Terrence became famous for spreading.

Anyways, while most of the stuff Dennis was saying he was being taught by the mushroom was not very logical he did happen to be right about a few things

most of the stuff he's saying is extremely far out sounding and it ends up causing him to think that he's going to usher mankind into a new dimension but there are certain things he just happened to "know" that happened to be right.

the short explanation is that he thought that harmine binded with DNA and somehow it would reach the temperature of absolute zero within your body and be superconductive so that this thing called an "Electron Spin Resonance" can be amplified and pretty much allow you to reach a higher dimension. He goes on to say

"The result will be a molecular aggregate of hyperdimensional, superconducting matter that receives and sends messages transmitted by thought, that stores and retrieves information in a holographic fashion in neural DNA, and that depends on superconductive harmine as a transducer energy source and superconductive RNA as a temporal matrix"

I personally think the hyperdimensional matter he believed he was creating was actually DNA.

It actually turns out that harmine and other harmala alkaloids do bind to DNA, so some of the things he was apparently taught by the mushroom happen to be true. It's incredibly interesting to me that the guy went into the middle of the jungle to learn about psychedelics there and starts randomly talking about how he's learning things about his DNA and electromagnetic phenomena.

So In my opinion he's probably totally wrong about the absolute zero thing, that's one of the most outlandish claims he makes but it actually turns out that there is a natural superconductor made by your pineal gland called pinoline, and it is structurally very similar to the harmala alkaloids.

so far he's been right about harmala alkaloids ability to bind to DNA and the fact that there is a superconductor in your brain.

I looked up what "Electron Spin Resonance" is and once again although he is talking about extremely far out stuff that seem to have came from mushroom teachings, he certainly may have been right about many aspects of this phenomena he suddenly became aware of.

He apparently happened to learn a lot of specific details about how things were occurring on a molecular level.

The harmine molecule, which is structured like a little bell, gives a bell-like chiming and buzzing sound. If we come on it right and cancel it and there is neural DNA active in the brain, the electrical configuration of harmine is enough like the molecular configuration of adenine, one of the bases in DNA, that it will replace it. It will bond through into the chain. And when it is bonded in, its ring will become activated. It is the same size as
adenine, but it's a little more complicated. It has a free resonance ring." Dennis paused and then gathered his thoughts to continue.
"Now the normal ESR of harmine is a simple signal, but the electron spin configuration of DNA is very, very complicated. It is a broad band. When the harmine goes in there it will cease to broadcast its own resonation because it will have become very tightly bonded into the structure of the macro-molecule. It will instead begin to broadcast the ESR resonation of the DNA.

Now this is where things get very complicated, who knows how he associated the shape of the harmine molecule with a bell I personally just don't see it. However, harmine does look rather similar to adenine to me (though I should mention I'm a biochem layman).

All of this really makes me wonder if the ESR he happened to learn so much about is based off of something in reality.

I personally think it could have to do with the electromagnetic fields or feedback loops or something of your cells like harmonizing somehow and empowering the intuitive nature of your DNA and your nervous system.

or maybe the harmine binding to your DNA potentiates the amount of epigenetic changes DMT can make to your cells.

Any Thoughts?

TL;DR How did Dennis Mckenna find all this stuff out just by taking psychedelics? and which parts of it are based in reality?

 

[Xorkoth]

I will think about this and post more, but I just wanted to mention an anecdote about spontaneously gaining information from psychedelics. Or, in this case, it was MXE. One night me and my friends were doing MXE, except one friend who wasn't on it but who always gets a really nice contact high when we do drugs around him and really becomes part of the collective trip. They were talking about soldering metal to build instruments. Suddenly I had this instant of total understanding about how soldering works (though I can only remember bits of it now). I proceeded to start explaining how it works to them... since they already knew, they were able to confirm I was right. But I've never studied soldering before in my life, never really even thought about it before then.

I think the idea that a substance could reach absolute zero in your body is total nonsense... our bodies are warm. However since I have experienced spontaneous knowledge on psychedelics, I'm not one to disbelieve that it can happen.

 

[sekio]

Harmine intercalates into DNA, but so do a lot of other simple aromatic compounds. And intercalating DNA is normally associated with carcinogenesis - this is how polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons are thought to damage DNA...

"The result will be a molecular aggregate of hyperdimensional, superconducting matter that receives and sends messages transmitted by thought, that stores and retrieves information in a holographic fashion in neural DNA, and that depends on superconductive harmine as a transducer energy source and superconductive RNA as a temporal matrix"

Terry has a good imagination but that's... really just stringing words together. Neither harmine, harmine-DNA intercataltion complexes, or RNA are superconductors at biological temperatures. He also fails to provide a link to exactly how having superconductors in your body would allow remote transmission of thought (seems like a bit of a leap to me.).

The mechanics of exactly how you'd maintain a temperature of absolute zero in a warm body are questionable, too. I am actually unsure if there's very many effective biological heat pumps that could even chill an organism to zero celcius...

The harmine molecule, which is structured like a little bell, gives a bell-like chiming and buzzing sound. If we come on it right and cancel it and there is neural DNA active in the brain, the electrical configuration of harmine is enough like the molecular configuration of adenine, one of the bases in DNA, that it will replace it. It will bond through into the chain. And when it is bonded in, its ring will become activated. It is the same size as
adenine, but it's a little more complicated. It has a free resonance ring." Dennis paused and then gathered his thoughts to continue.
"Now the normal ESR of harmine is a simple signal, but the electron spin configuration of DNA is very, very complicated. It is a broad band. When the harmine goes in there it will cease to broadcast its own resonation because it will have become very tightly bonded into the structure of the macro-molecule. It will instead begin to broadcast the ESR resonation of the DNA.

Dennis is a little more on point here. I don't know if you'd be using electron spin resonance rather than something like nuclear magnetic resonance. Either way, he's right - all molecules do have resonant frequencies, that is, if you send the right sort of energy at them, some wavelengths will be absorbed and converted to molecular motion. And what wavelengths are absorbed can be shifted depending on the chemical environment your molecule in question is in. I'm most familiar with this in the case of stuff like nuclear Overhauser effect spectroscopy (what a cool name!). For instance, there's NMR shift reagents that vary their signal depending on whether or not there's a left-handed or right-handed chiral alcohol.

Harmine is not really special in this aspect though. All compounds will respond to energy slightly differently in different environments. Even something seemingly trivial like changing one solvent for another can change the measured NMR spectra of a compound.

Does this mean you can use harmine as a probe to 'read out' DNA from a living biological system? I doubt it. ESR and NMR studies on biological tissue is kind of tricky due to the inherent inhomogeneity of living tissue. And without a really obviously resonance-active compound (usually metal ions) or any sort of selective binding (I'd imagine harmine 'sticks' a lot of places that aren't DNA... like MAO-A) you'd be hard pressed to exatract any sort of readable signal.

Maybe you'd be able to sense the presence of harmine, though. That'd be cool.

 

[Humble Bumble]

OP;

You should definitely read the book 'The Cosmic Serpent - DNA and the origins of knowledge' by one Jeremy Narby.

From the back of the cover :
'While living among Peruvian Indians, anthropologist Jeremy Narby became intrigued by their claim that their phenomenal knowledge of plants and biochemistry was communicated to them directly while under the influence of hallucinogenics.'

I'm too tired atm to type an exerpt in English but I believe you would find it interesting, and it touches upon your question.

 

[perpetualdawn]

all molecules do have resonant frequencies, that is, if you send the right sort of energy at them, some wavelengths will be absorbed and converted to molecular motion.

By "energy" do you mean electromagnetic radiation, and is an example of this how microwaves in microwave ovens make water molecules wiggle?

 

[sekio]

By "energy" do you mean electromagnetic radiation, and is an example of this how microwaves in microwave ovens make water molecules wiggle?

Yes! It's exactly the same thing. Although in spectroscopy the idea is not to use so much energy you induce heating effects, but just enough to measure absorbtion.

Microwave spectroscopy measures the ability of radio energy to induce molecular motion.
Infrared spectroscopy uses infrared light to make atoms and bonds wiggle or stretch.
Ultraviolet-visible spectroscopy is the same but uses UV and visible light to measure absorption and florescence.
Nuclear magnetic resonance uses high frequency pulses of radio energy in a strong magnetic field to 'ring' the hydrogen atoms like a bell.
Electron paramagentic resonance uses the same sort of idea (radio energy pulses in a strong magnetic field) but 'rings' the free electrons in a radical or metal complex.
And there's other even weirder things scientists use for spectroscopy... like X-rays and gamma rays.

 

[Hamish Harrumph]

there is a natural superconductor made by your pineal gland called pinoline, and it is structurally very similar to the harmala alkaloids.

That's quite a claim. Do you have any evidence to support it?

 

[SONN]

Obviously theres no way a molecule could reach the temperature of absolute zero inside someones body, but Pinoline is made by the pineal gland from melatonin and it apparently is a superconductor according to a bunch of sources i've read previously but I can't find an any kind of scientific document that would confirm that type of thing.

Pinoline has a wide variety of positive health effects such as being a strong free radical scavenger and Harmine has been proven to be pretty damn healthy for an intercalator according to this pubmed article

suppose he was mistaken about the molecule he thought was binding to his DNA and it was actually pinoline, which does also resemble adenine and harmine,

my question is could pinoline potentially bind to DNA in the way he's talking about? and if so does pinoline's methoxy group mean it would have a free electron spinning on the outside of the double helix?

and if those (theoretical) electrons were spinning around the double helix while superconducting wouldn't they theoretically create a magnetic field aligned to the axis of the spinning DNA according to what's called the London Moment? which would potentially cause more metal ions to be magnetized toward your pineal gland and amplify the signal like sekio said was necessary

He also fails to provide a link to exactly how having superconductors in your body would allow remote transmission of thought (seems like a bit of a leap to me.).

I agree, I was trying to say that to me it seems more like his DNA was the thing transmitting thoughts (probably not "transmitting thoughts" but more like sending electrical signals) to itself (in the intercalating/potentially superconducting/magnetized pinoline-bound state) so that it can do all the beneficial stuff it does like act as an antioxidant and even stimulate the neurogenesis in neural stem cells in vitro.

I'm just baffled at the amount of things

 

[sekio]

Pinoline is not a superconductor. Small organic molecules generally aren't.

my question is could pinoline potentially bind to DNA in the way he's talking about? and if so does pinoline's methoxy group mean it would have a free electron spinning on the outside of the double helix?

Pinoline has no "free electrons"*, and if it did bind to DNA it would do so only weakly, as it only has one aromatic center to perform pi-stacking and a big blobby piperidine on the other side getting in the way.

* For a compound to have ESR-active free electrons it has to either be an organic radical like TEMPO or have a paramagnetic metal center. Neither pinoline nor harmine have these qualities.

aligned to the axis of the spinning DNA

DNA doesn't always spin on its axis nor is it always a straight line, it's just a convenient way for us to visualize it.

 

[SONN]

Sekio I can't even begin to explain how thankful I am to have someone as knowledgeable as you give me the time of day.

Unfortunately I had read from a few different sources that pinoline was a superconductor. All of the sites that said it were pretty spiritual but then I saw on wikipedia that it said it was a superconductor too so I believed it 8)

Sekio if you had to guess how do you think DMT interacts with DNA?

 

[sekio]

The only references I see for harmine or pinoline being described as superconductors are not what I would call good evidence. It's all offhand mentions of it in hippy fluff publications, there are no published studies showing that it's a superconductor, nor does theory predict it should be. In fact I doubt it's even a *regular* conductor.

I'd like to see the wiki page that said it was a superconductor, if you can dig it up again.

I don't think DMT directly interacts with DNA at all. Maybe it alters downstream expression via serotonin receptors. The other issue is that DMT is rapidly destroyed in the body... it wouldn't have much time to induce changes that would stay around!

 

[SONN]

yea I meant it was probably only temporarily on wikipedia put there by someone who probably, much like myself, was a speculating drug user without a factual source or too much of a background in formal science education.

well DMT does hit the sigma-1 receptor which is supposedly in the endoplasmic reticulum of the cell which is apparently how it regulates immune homeostasis, sorry for the gross speculation and/or spread of misinformation. That's what this site is for, right?