How to switch from oxy to hydro comfortably

[ColoradoBoy90]

If I am taking 50mg oxycodone (IR) daily, how much hydro would I need to take to be "equal" and switch without going through withdrawal and be comfortable. I have switched between oxycodone and hydro many times over the past 10 years. Never any problems. The only problem? I forgot what conversion ratio was used.So far I have read 50mg oxy = 75 mg of hydro. So would 7 hydros pills (10mg per pill) totaling 70mg be enough? It's just 5mg short of the conversion. Or would you likely need 8 pills a day of hydro for a total of 80mg Per day?
A couple other websites say that 20mg oxycodone = 30mg hydro.So that's stronger than what some other websites say where 10mg oxycodone = 7.5mg hydro. Do any ideas?
**********(Please read) **********
BIGGEST REASON WHY FOR THE SWITCH: I USED TO TAKE BRAND NAME PERCOSET (OR BRAND NAME YELLOW ENDOCET). THOSE BOTH WORKED PERFECTLY. NOW MY INSURANCE WONT COVER EITHER. So I'm left with generics which all seem much weaker:

--Oxycodone 10mg generic is made by: Activas (a33, the most complaints ever of any pain med. Activas said they where going to make them "abuse resistant".). The other most common 10mg generic oxycodone is: amneal, Rhodes, and Mallinrockt all
Make 10mg generic oxycodone . NONE of them are really any good. Watson doesn't make generic oxy 10mg anymore, which was closest to brand name...

SO WHY HYDO then? Because they have a decent generic. The Watson 10mg hydro generics are good. Oxycodone don't make 10mg Watsons anymore! Only Hydros!! AND... Even better, my insurance covers brand name Vicodin!! Which brand name 10mg vicodin beats some of the 10mg cheap generic oxycodone like Activas a33.....

Lastly: Does anyone here take that many Hydros: 7-10 pills of the 10mg dosage per day?

 

[Phil.McKeer]

I can't base this on science, only personal experience, but I'd rate oxy to hydrocodone at least with a 2:1 ratio (so to get the same effects of 60mg oxy, you'd need 120mg hydro). It may even be more. Oxy is pretty strong. Hydro is just the next step above codeine in terms of strength.

I could be wrong, though. Way wrong. But this has been my experience.

But note that if correct, this presents the danger of APAP poisoning. Consider doing cold water extractions of your hydrocodone if you don't already.

 

[SS373dOH]

If I am taking 50mg oxycodone (IR) daily, how much hydro would I need to take to be "equal" and switch without going through withdrawal and be comfortable. I have switched between oxycodone and hydro many times over the past 10 years. Never any problems. The only problem? I forgot what conversion ratio was used.So far I have read 50mg oxy = 75 mg of hydro. So would 7 hydros pills (10mg per pill) totaling 70mg be enough? It's just 5mg short of the conversion. Or would you likely need 8 pills a day of hydro for a total of 80mg Per day?
A couple other websites say that 20mg oxycodone = 30mg hydro.So that's stronger than what some other websites say where 10mg oxycodone = 7.5mg hydro. Do any ideas?
**********(Please read) **********
BIGGEST REASON WHY FOR THE SWITCH: I USED TO TAKE BRAND NAME PERCOSET (OR BRAND NAME YELLOW ENDOCET). THOSE BOTH WORKED PERFECTLY. NOW MY INSURANCE WONT COVER EITHER. So I'm left with generics which all seem much weaker:

--Oxycodone 10mg generic is made by: Activas (a33, the most complaints ever of any pain med. Activas said they where going to make them "abuse resistant".). The other most common 10mg generic oxycodone is: amneal, Rhodes, and Mallinrockt all
Make 10mg generic oxycodone . NONE of them are really any good. Watson doesn't make generic oxy 10mg anymore, which was closest to brand name...

SO WHY HYDO then? Because they have a decent generic. The Watson 10mg hydro generics are good. Oxycodone don't make 10mg Watsons anymore! Only Hydros!! AND... Even better, my insurance covers brand name Vicodin!! Which brand name 10mg vicodin beats some of the 10mg cheap generic oxycodone like Activas a33.....

Lastly: Does anyone here take that many Hydros: 7-10 pills of the 10mg dosage per day?

Yes 75mg of hydro equals 50mg oxy when taken orally. The 5mg difference should not be much of an issue.

Sorry but brand discusion is not allowed on BL.

Taking 7-10 hydro pills is safe, if you have the tolerance for it, and if you do a cold water extraction. You want to avoid taking that much apap. The suggested max daily dose is 3,000mg.. but I would try to shoot for a lot less than that, and you certainly don't want to be taking that much apap everyday!

 

[SS373dOH]

Od -> Bdd

 

[Sobrietysucks]

There is reason why insurance stop covering. You need to deal with the root of the issues not try to work around it.

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

Insurance did because I changed jobs, and one job doesn't cover oxycodone very well, the other covered hydrocodone like 95% of cost.

Also, hydrocodone breaks down into Hydromorphone, **ROUGHLY** 10% to 15% breaks down to Hydrmorphone. Which is the strongest pain PILL on the planet. Now.... Oxycodone breaks down **roughly** into only 5% Oxymorphone (Opana). As most here should know, Hydrmorphone is 33% stronger than oxymorphone, on a mg per mg basis..... Also Hydromorphone has better bioavailability/BA. So for some people, hydro can be stronger if their body breaks down the max amount of Hydromorphone/or just doesn't absorb oxycodone well... That why many people actually like hydro better.

Example: "Person A" takes a 10mg Vicodin and all 15% breaks down into Hydrmorphone. They get excellent pain relief from it. And it last longer due to the Hydromorphone. While person A tries a 10mg oxycodone, and only 1% turns into oxymorphone. As you can easily tell, for "PERSON A" Vicodin would be actually be far superior and stronger than Oxycodone/Percoset. NOW, there are quite a few "PERSON A's" out there. But there are also a lot of "person B's" for whom it works the opposite. Depends on the person....

Heck some people like oral morphine better than Vicodin/Oxy even though it's weaker... Maybe they just absorb the morphine better and that's why it works better for them? Again. Every person breaks down and metabolizes differrntly.

For the liver and APAP, I also take the most amazing liver protecting vitamins/etc possible and my liver wasn't so great before due to all the APAP, 2 months after taking these liver supplements I actually have a normal (above normal/very healthy) liver. And I get it checked often and every since I started taking them, it seems to make the has APAP not effect my liver. And that's taking 2,000mg APAP daily for like 4 years straight....

 

[Intghrn]

I'm confused. I thought hydro morphone was a separate substance than hydrocodone. So could you extracr the hydro morphone from the hydrocodone?

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

No idea about extraction, I just know it breaks down/metabolizes into Hydrmorphone. So not sure if hydro has Hydromorphone in it (in the pill) but rather I think it simply metabolizes into via CYPD26.

Just like codeine breaks down into the bigger drug Morphine via CYPD26.

 

[Ilove2nod]

I guess I am a person B then.. I always hated hydrocodone, it was practically useless to me, even at higher doses of like 80mg or more, it didn't do shit for me. Oxycodone on the other hand always worked great for me, no matter the ROA.. That's another reason I like oxy way more, your not so limited to what you can do with it, like with hydrocodone, or at least Vicodin(hydrocodone/APAP), since you can really only take those orally and achieve any sort of effect, unless you have that Zohydro (Hydrocodone ER), which I have never come across so I don't really know how I would rate it, but heard it can be done other ROAs than just oral since it is just powdered hydrocodone, in a capsule, with no APAP.. so you can definitely sniff it, and has anyone ever tried it intranasal or IV? I have been curious about hydrocodone via other ROAs than oral and how they compare... Oxycodone(at least oxy without APAP) can be taken orally, sniffed, plugged, IV, and even smoked! And works well every single one of those ROAs, IME at least I have done them all. Also I have to say I like the effects of oxymorphone WAY more than hydromorphone, both of those actual drugs(not as in when they are metabolized from another drug like oxy/hydrocodone, I mean the actual pill forms of them.) Hydromorphone is ONLY good to most people when done IV, there is only a handful of people out there who can actually feel something from it when done other ROAs, it has a terrible oral BA, and sniffing/plugging it isn't much better. Now Opana(oxymorphone) is damn near the most powerful opioid I have ever done, pharm wise and works great when sniffed, or IVed, probably works well plugged too, but never tried it that way, but it too has an awful oral BA... That's just my 2 cents.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

To sum it up it's quite subjective to the individual. As you described, Person A & Person B will metabolize things differently due to genetic polymorphisms in each one's cytochrome systems. Hydrocodone might give one 5% or 15% hydromorphone depending on genetic factors. Similar to how 5% of the population is immune to endogenous Codeine de-methylation and glucuronidation (conversion to M). Mind you Hydrocodone is still active in itself. It's also longer acting than Oxycodone which might add a variable to your conversion plan. 1.25-2 conversion is just a place to start till you find your personal factor which shouldn't take to long.

As for IV-ing Hydrocodone, there have been reports of necrosis, muscle/ tissue damage, vein sclerosing, venospasm and thrombosis similar to codeine injectors. I believe there is a reference to this in the patient monograph that comes with single entity hydrocodone products like Zo***** (no brand discussion as 7nos-SS373dOH pointed out ).