how long for my ROA's of morphine to kick in?

[DownerSensation]

So i have some purple 30mg Morphine Sulphate ER pills, i always peel the coating off and than crush them up to a fine powder before i do anything with them. So anyways i plugged 30mg, insufflated 30mg, and took 90mg orally, so my question is how long does it take for each ROA to kick in and to reach its peak? And by taking all three different ROA is it possible to have three different peaks at different times? (If they were all to absorb or metabolize at different times)

 

[justtakethat]

I'm not sure about rectal administration but orally should be 1 and a half hours at the most. Although you'll probably feel it slightly at about 30 minutes and an hour in you'll be feelin pretty good. I'd say insufflation wouldn't take longer than 1 hour to peak. I've only taken morphine orally though.

 

[Lorne???]

, and morphine was always my doc, aside from H/diamorphine.!’ Whe it was halfway convienent andnot outrageously is expensive (Always preferred quality eas coast, and it seemed best by the gram; again,!hypoth hypothetically

yes each ethodnwil have own plsma peak, that is Tmax and even Cmax (especially with SR’s) and time to reach maximum effect

However, you simply CANNOT snort Morphine sulfate, much less MSCONTIN; Your best bet is parachuting, by that I just mean grinding down into
snent andnot outrageously is expensive (Always preferred quality eas coast, and it seemed best by the gram; again,!hypoth hypothetically

yes each ethodnwil have own plsma peak, that is Tmax and even Cmax (especially with SR’s) and time to reach maximum effect

However, you simply CANNOT snort Morphine sulfate, much less MSCONTIN; Your best bet is parachuting, by that I just mean grinding down into a fine powder to pretty much break time release, yielding a surprisingly fast onset, and better Tmax and higher CMAX-of course, duration takes a hit; though yeah, if you swallowed say 45mg SR, and another 3-45mg crushed up, the latter would reach peak plasma both faster,?and with a higher Cnac

Info on plugging is, somewhat lacking, and what is available is contradictory; so if you know technique, then it is probably a worthy experuaeb, though it takes 2ml for, 120mg?(less than 150mg) so advise you take by mouth, and alternate crushing, and really grinding those tablets down to eliminate SR, and take the tablets while as needed

other times take them with SR intact; may post figures later, need to go for now, Have Fun and Good luck

 

[LesFleursDuMal]

All you are truly going to be able to do with the ER morphine tablets is swallow them, in which case the onset time of that ROA might be anywhere from 30min - 60min.

Some who know what they're doing, from experience of having a habit where you eventually pick up these tools of the trade, are able to remove the outer gel-coating (and with it some of the morphine content) until what's left is the center instant release portion of morphine sulfate. From there, they can break these down in a spoon with sterile water until it is as fully in solution as possible, draw up the solution using micron filtration if possible (but cotton will work), and inject it into a vein.
I'm not advising that you do that - but it might give you some idea about what you need to do in order to remove the ER element from your morphine so you can shorten the length of time it takes to absorb.
Gluck,
Fleurs

 

[Fungi53]

Is there any morphine in the coating of Ms contin?
What is the most efficient way to invest 100 mg Ms contin?
How about the same questions about 40 mg Opana/Oxymorphone?

 

[Keif' Richards]

Come on now guys. Morphine can be insufflated. It's not commonly attempted as the drug in question has a pretty low relative bioavailability by this route, but to say that is CANNOT be done is not accurate. Also, to say that the only way controlled-release Morphine preparations can be used is orally is also not really true. I've used MSContin rectally a couple of dozen times and was always more satisfied than had I simply taken them by the oral route.

I'm on my tablet and am still figuring out how to do some basic functions on it, but if you search for rectal Morphine bioavailability, one of the first results on pubmed actually implies that they occasionally administer MSContin rectally even in clinical settings. Granted, the jury is partially out concerning the efficacy of this practice, but it is definitely possible and almost certainly more efficient than oral use.

Fungi: There is not any active substance in the coating of the pill and the wax plays little if any role in how the drug is metabolized. The most efficient way to ingest Morphine Sulfate aside from injection is, in most instances, rectally. There appears to be some evidence that administering with a small amount of baking soda can increase bioavailability to a significant extent i.e. Making the solution more alkaline.

 

[Lorne???]

^ First, glad your popping in. Second, your right about the gel, and certain brands are not hard to put into solution

And to rectal morphine, the evidence is conflicting, though, over just swallowing the tablets whole it would likely hit harder, and even with pure morphine it may be worth the experimentation m

Though what I meant when I said “simply cannot”
was that, without breaking most brands of SR morphine tablets down into a solution , snorting would be practically a waste, because even with pure morphine, it normally has a low BA %(although apparently this can even be increased to some extent with certain substances)

Truth be told though, chronic morphine, and especially high doses, have an improved bioavailability; it can normally range 15-40%, though I am fairly sure it CAN reach 50% if you were on a high enough dose. Not saying it is common, and don’t even remember what dose this starts

point is, if you can skew the BA% to 40%+, there is no need to experiment, because you would need a needle to consistently beat that(IV, or even IM with pure morphine, actually SQ is surprisingly effective also)

I am glad you mentioned baking soda- a couple teaspoons or alternative antacid increases the availability of morphine and many other opioids, to varying extents, including methadone, where say cimetidine alsmot guarantees 90% absorption (it’s high anyway, though still variable, and it’s surprising what can change it) Morphine is a good candidate for this, increased stomach PH increases absorption

Anyway, I stand by mscontin not being practical to snort; not IMPOSSIBLE though. And Keif, if you read this, if your on a high dose, like 100mg+, repeat dosing should yield a BA% increase, making it 1.5-2x as potent already, and the high dose should also slightly increase it, so a single 100ng tablet, or a pair of tablets for 120mg or something along those lines, I would break time release and results might surprise you; with poorly soluble drugs rectal had a kind of built in time release (it’s natural though and likely more reliable) like with both oxycodone and -morphone, which are more soluble than morphine, which has modest water solubility of well under 100ng per ml, vs oxymorphone, which if memory serves is a quarter gram per ml(4 parts water) or oxy, which is like ~150(don’ Remember exact figure) and both have increased lipid solubility)
Fun fact for Everyone else: Hydromorphone is soluble in 3 parts water, and H/diamorphine *pure* in 2 parts water, or half a gram per ml

 

[DownerSensation]

Well from my experience with my dosages and ROA's mentioned above, i notice that there is an effect from insufflating it and to a naive user i certainly think it could produce a nice high for them even at a smaller dosage.

As for rectal i did feel a nice warmth feeling almost instantly and 30 mins later was feeling really nice on top of the 60mg oral and 30mg insufflated i had already taken, so would say that rectal is a bit stronger than taken orally. Maybe as mentioned it could be due to the fact that it absorbs faster resulting in a bigger "rush" per se at once.

And taking it orally is certainly the safest way to go if your uncertain with any other ROA and i ended up taking 90mg that night as mentioned.

Overall it resulted in a very pleasent night with slight euphoria and a nice warm feeling with a touch of the nods. Was actually impressed to what i was expecting to get from the high to what i actually got.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Lorne, I actually understood what you were saying. I knew when I posted that that you were probably just using language to describe insufflation of Morphine that maybe wasn't the right kind. While I know that you know, I felt that the language that you used was pretty absolute and some folks might misunderstand what you meant. No harm no foul, just wanted to make sure everyone understood.

Downer, I'm glad to hear that you have found success with the given ROA. While there is a lot of conjecture regarding rectal administration of Morphine, I can say from experience, which, granted, is highly subjective, that Morphine is indeed about twice as powerful by the rectal route as by the oral route. I have a process that I follow specifically for Morphine though, based upon the limited knowledge I have of the drug's pharmacokinetics and chemistry.

I always do something of an enema prior to the Morphine. Even if it's just a few syringes filled with water, I make sure I am "empty" and take a shower. Once I'm out, I administer a small amount of water/baking soda solution. Just a very tiny bit. I wait 2-3 minutes, then I administer a Morphine/Baking Soda/Water combination then alternate between laying on my side, then my stomach, then my other side, in a potentially hopeless attempt to expose the Morphine solution to the entire surface area of the rectum. I know this is a lot of information and very complicated. I also don't know what of these variables truly increases bioavailability, so I do them all.

By following this process, I get about twice as much out of my Morphine. If I simply administer rectal Morphine solution, it is only about as powerful as oral administration. I would advise people to experiment and attempt to find the answer, but this is what I've come up with over the years with Morphine. Note, when I was teaching in Kurdistan, the only Opioid I had readily available was powdered Morphine. I became very accustomed to using it rectally, as I occasionally didn't have access to hypodermic syringes.

 

[Lorne???]

^ Well yeah, morphine is powerful stuff- Inmean H, when not injected, is basically morphine with a faster onset and improved NA%; however, at equivalent doses, they will have more or less same
effects

Tgat should always be noted if your opioid naive, or just otherwise have little or ni
tolerance - I make the mistake of forgetting that many won't have much of a tolerance; others do, though have little experience with morphine

And snorting, despite a fairly low BA%, has the advantage of a higher peak plasma, relative to the amount actually absorbed; basically it will take effect rapidly, and give likely a stronger than expected, yet more fleeting "buzz"

Kind of like with rectal as mentioned, though rectal is more effective than morphine. Bottom Line I guess: I don't recommend snorting it, however if you "feel" a
couoke Percocet, snorting 30mg of morphine will certainly land; and actually it's not as bad as it seems on paper, since acute oral bioavailability would be expected to be low, at 30mg-still, it's not what I would recommend. Rectal is
probabk a good route to experiment with, though really, if you don't have an opioid tolerance, swallowing morphine, unless it is just too small of a dose, should work fine. Guess I've clarified enough, and admitted haste(awesome spell ) and tried to explain how snorting could work; Two out of 3 would be great!

 

[Lorne???]

Lorne, I actually understood what you were saying. I knew when I posted that that you were probably just using language to describe insufflation of Morphine that maybe wasn't the right kind. While I know that you know, I felt that the language that you used was pretty absolute and some folks might misunderstand what you meant. No harm no foul, just wanted to make sure everyone understood.

Downer, I'm glad to hear that you have found success with the given ROA. While there is a lot of conjecture regarding rectal administration of Morphine, I can say from experience, which, granted, is highly subjective, that Morphine is indeed about twice as powerful by the rectal route as by the oral route. I have a process that I follow specifically for Morphine though, based upon the limited knowledge I have of the drug's pharmacokinetics and chemistry.

I always do something of an enema prior to the Morphine. Even if it's just a few syringes filled with water, I make sure I am "empty" and take a shower. Once I'm out, I administer a small amount of water/baking soda solution. Just a very tiny bit. I wait 2-3 minutes, then I administer a Morphine/Baking Soda/Water combination then alternate between laying on my side, then my stomach, then my other side, in a potentially hopeless attempt to expose the Morphine solution to the entire surface area of the rectum. I know this is a lot of information and very complicated. I also don't know what of these variables truly increases bioavailability, so I do them all.

By following this process, I get about twice as much out of my Morphine. If I simply administer rectal Morphine solution, it is only about as powerful as oral administration. I would advise people to experiment and attempt to find the answer, but this is what I've come up with over the years with Morphine. Note, when I was teaching in Kurdistan, the only Opioid I had readily available was powdered Morphine. I became very accustomed to using it rectally, as I occasionally didn't have access to hypodermic syringes.

Hey! You outdrew me.

I like the baking soda idea, just from a , I guess clinical standpoint, of trying to find the best way to administer it rectally. Since opioid addicts are often constipated (I am an opioid addict) I would recommend the enema to viewers at home. Honestly that kept me from experimenting with that ROA more, well that and needles

Also methadone hits faster rectally, though otherwise I am/was fine with just taking it by mouth (not that I had much of a choice, until I started getting multiple take homes)

Anyway, won't let disect your method anymore, although I wonder if there is a convenient study about stomach ph and morphine; I would recommend baking soda with morphine oral as well. With methadone, even urine PH increases(or decreases) half life.
Kurdistan? Wow. I feel like I just got outdrew twice