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[HELP] Ketamine use with diabetes and gout

Lady Ice

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
49
Hey guys,

I have no knowledge whatsoever about psychedelics and dissoc. Since it’s not my poison; So I never bothered reading much into it.

Though I have a friend who is currently taking K + benzo (specifically nimetazepam) + alcohol.

Looking for advice/insights Specifically on Harm reduction & Dangerous drug combos for K (excluding alcohol cause thanks to blue light, I’ve made it a point to tell ppl drugs + alcohol = NO )

I’d really appreciate it. Please. Even links. Just point me in the right direction.
 
nimetazepam
This is a particularly sedating benzo at that. If your friend wants to use K safely, adding in alcohol or nimetazepam are both bad ideas.

I don't know what effects ketamine has in regards to diabetes. If they have impaired kidney function then ketamine itself should also be avoided.

All three can safely be used in combo (hypothetically); however, from a purely harm reduction perspective, it's a very dangerous combo that could lead to respiratory depression or choking on one's own vomit.
 
Does your friend have Type 1 or Type 2 diabetes? I didn't know about this previously but did a quick google DuckDuckGo for you :sneaky: (eh no honestly I used Google, but you shouldn't)...

There does seem to be an increased risk of hyperglycemia and ketoacidosis, especially in Type 2 diabetics, which can be mitigated supposedly by pretreatment with insulin - but is still good to be aware of.

Diabetes alters the blood glucose response to ketamine in streptozotocin-diabetic rats
However, ketamine dose dependently elevated glucose in diabetic rats from 80 mg/kg to 120 mg/kg at 1 hour after injection. ... Ketamine did not induce acute hyperglycemia any more after diabetic rats pretreated with insulin.


Diabetic Ketoacidosis: the Usual Villain or a Scapegoat?
We describe a case of severe metabolic acidosis in type 1 diabetes far exceeding the accompanying diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA), highlighting pitfalls to management of DKA by protocol alone. ...
Ketamine may cause acidosis and rhabdomyolysis in severe intoxication. Ketamine is a major danger in the “rave” scene (3), compounding the complications of ketoacidosis. Although our patient denied ketamine use, mild rhabdomyolysis was congruent with ketamine toxicity. Drink spiking was possible. Severe metabolic acidosis with ketamine intoxication without rhabdomyolysis is reported (4). Another possibility is urinary bicarbonate loss secondary to ketamine-induced urinary excretion of large amount of β-hydroxybutyrate (5).


There are a few other results but generally parroting the same general advice about "illegal" drug use, these 2 were the relevant scientific ones that stood out to me. Just as an interesting curiosity, I did also find a site advocating the use of ketamine for diabetic neuropathy, which maybe indicates that in controlled doses it's not that dangerous, on it's own, in a clinical setting, although that particular site has an obvious ulterior motive in advocating ketamine use for all sorts of conditions so I also wouldn't put too much stock in that particular application of ketamine over other options.

I didn't find anything that interesting really about ketamine and gout although there were also a few sites referencing the use of ketamine for relief of gout related pain, so I would guess this condition isn't hugely relevant.

Benzos in general are very safe physiologically so I didn't bother looking up anything relating to that, I don't think that there is much extra to be concerned about with the 2 conditions you mentioned.

Not that there isn't reason to be concerned - I haven't even mentioned alcohol yet, ohhh man, where to start. Alcohol is a particularly toxic drug in almost all cirumstances, and polydrug combinations are a whole kettle of worms for anyone. I personally think the dangers of ketamine and alcohol use are kind of overblown, but also I am very experienced with both and just as people keep drowning in bathtubs, swimming pools, or flotation tanks on ketamine, it's entirely possible for someone to throw up and drow in their own vomit, as has been mentioned.

Dosage matters though, honestly I think combining 3 "sedatives" (I use the term loosely, ketamine is an atypical sedative of course) on a regular basis is not a good habit to get into both for the acute dangers and for the havoc it will wreak on one's psyche. But, if your friend is just having a few drinks sometimes, doing a liiitle ketamine - as many people do - maybe taking the odd benzo if that's their scene, while still being responsible about it, keeping themselves insulined up, monitoring their blood sugar level, and hanging with responsible people who would be able to administer insulin if needed... or even contact the emergency services in a worst case scenario... then it's possible they know what they're doing and will, in all likelihood be absolutely fine. Although I see you're in Malaysia, in which case contacting the emergency services may have it's own dangers, given the Malaysian government's absolutely horrific, barbaric, amoral, insane and inhuman treatment of drug users.

In fact if your friend is also in Malaysia then the Malaysian government and law enforcement agencies probably pose a far greater danger to their life than any drug ever will, so I would seriously be more concerned about doing absolutely everything you can to protect your friend from them.

Setting aside my geopolitical gripes though, it's hard to judge the real danger given that, by your own admission, drugs are not your scene and you haven't previously had any interest in them, so try to keep in mind that it's possible your perspective is a little skewed. Is it possible for someone with diabetes and gout to do the 3 drugs you have mentioned simultaneously, and relatively safely? Absolutely yes. Is your friend using them safely? It's impossible to know without a little more information. However as mentioned, ketamine is a little more risky for diabetics, so your friend should be aware of this.

Interestingly, alcohol can cause hypoglycemia, and ketamine can cause hyperglycemia, in diabetics, so maybe co-administration kind of levels out the bad effects in a weird way. ;) Definitely not to be encourage though even so, that's usually not how biology works. I would imagine in any case that most diabetics are more familiar with alcohol related dangers given that it's the drug of choice for the majority of the modern world. So yeah... to summarise, ketamine can be a bit more hairy with diabetics - primarily Type 1 - but dosage matters with all these substances in assessing their danger.
 
Hey guys,

I have no knowledge whatsoever about psychedelics and dissoc. Since it’s not my poison; So I never bothered reading much into it.

Though I have a friend who is currently taking K + benzo (specifically nimetazepam) + alcohol.

Looking for advice/insights Specifically on Harm reduction & Dangerous drug combos for K (excluding alcohol cause thanks to blue light, I’ve made it a point to tell ppl drugs + alcohol = NO )

I’d really appreciate it. Please. Even links. Just point me in the right direction.
I have to go, but.... cocaethylene / ethylophenidate/minoxidyl / etc.? I can't read good,and Ihave to follow someone blue alcohol ain't denatured, expensive and not to be combined with many meds.
 
Taking K once in a while isn't going to hurt you in any way shape or form. Being addicted to it and taking massive quantities every day may cause issues.

Incidentally - when John Lennon sang "Twist and Shout" he always used to sing "Well, shake it up baby now, pissed with gout"
 
K + benzo (specifically nimetazepam) + alcohol is a dangerous mix to be doing on a regular basis. Plenty of deaths due to this combination. Introducing any kind of opioid here would significantly increase any risk. This trio is a very strong self-destructive combo though, I can't see how anyone could be functional taking this regularly or how you would even remember what's going on.

It's not good for the body and the benzos and alcohol will relax the person and affect their decision making. I find benzos cause someone to take way more ketamine if they have a tolerance.

In terms of diabetes. Regularly dosing ketamine a few days in a row can cause hypoglycemia-like symptoms. It's too difficult to tell in an anesthetic state without medical monitoring if this is being caused by:
the ketamine, a possible adulterant, lack of exercise, poor diet or something else but the symptoms disappear when ketamine use stops.

I've been told stories of bad reactions to ketamine for diabetics - one person collapsed and ended up in hospital but was never sure if this was caused by lack of insulin, the ketamine or possible alcohol consumption at the same time.
 
The picture on the level of the immune system isn't pretty either. Both types of diabetes come with elevated inflammatory biomarkers. So an inflammatory substance like alcohol helps bring out the typically associated complications, of which gout might only be the first one. In case of type 2 it's especially advised against, since nowadays cutting out sugars and carbs altogether (and alcohol is fermented sugar) is considered the superior treatment to insulin. Ketamine is anti-inflammatory, but you don't want to rely on something with so many side-effects to regulate your immune system I imagine. And overuse will produce inflammatory rebound effects.. been there, done that, not fun. The benzo seems the safest of the three. The other two must be regarded as inherently harmful here.
 
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