webbykevin
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you know what's like lsd ? - lsd!
Hallucinogenic fish
- Thread starter lovepsychadelics
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lovepsychadelics
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That's the truth 100%. I have no idea why people try and compare things that are not even remotely similar
Solipsis
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That would be the fugu mentioned in post #8: pufferfish basically, only fugu is the japanese name. It is purported to provide the paralysis component in the zombie (nzambi) drug mixture in haitian voodoo rituals from the sodium channel blocking action of the tetrodotoxin. It is not psychoactive, that component / aspect of the zombie effect is thought to be provided by something like scopolamine, so basically an anticholinergic deliriant.
Well I never said it would be like Fly Agaric and while there might be deliriant properties as commonalities here that are relevant to the matter and probably the reason why we are talking about these it is worth considering that Fly Agaric works via GABA and not anti-cholinergic action.
My point was rather that I don't really believe in 5-Bromo-DMT related theories and have doubts about it being indoles and relatively normal serotonergic psychedelia but instead something a bit more odd involving dissociative or deliriant or amnestic effects. Still, I do agree it doesn't sound even remotely as bad as atropine and other such heavy deliriants but I am reminded of the quality from those descriptions.
I think there is too little information here and we are trying to express and share our thoughts and questions about the matter using references that immediately lead us to oversimplify as well as speculate wildly.
Personally I wonder what about identifying the actives would be the biggest challenge.
lovepsychadelics
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It's an interesting subject. Really needs to be some research done on it but I guess it's not something that would warrant the resource allocation or even the interest of potential researchers. It's been almost a decade since I did Fly Agaric and I was under the impression (until you informed me Solipsis, thanks you ) that Muscarine was the active component. Obviously I was reading outdated information at the time of consumption and never bothered to do any further reading/research on the subject. I think I read some kind of hippy book that was from the 80's or early 90's. If nothing else that shows you really should use contemporary research data not the rantings of some old hippy who read a research publication from the 60's and used it as a base for his own publication.
) that Muscarine was the active component. Obviously I was reading outdated information at the time of consumption and never bothered to do any further reading/research on the subject. I think I read some kind of hippy book that was from the 80's or early 90's. If nothing else that shows you really should use contemporary research data not the rantings of some old hippy who read a research publication from the 60's and used it as a base for his own publication.
EarthBounded
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How long does the zombie effect last for the fugu? I know its somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-12 hours for scopolamine but is it a more permanent longer lasting zombie effect with the fugu? Or does it wear off?
TruffulaTree
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that's sick. are they used ceremonially like some other native tribes used ayahuasca or mushrooms or peyote?
Solipsis
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There is some mention of the topic in this thread: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/661731-Scopolamine
Again: the pufferfish toxin alone does not cause zombie effects but depending on the dose paralysis or death. The zombie curse ritual was or is performed as one of the heaviest penalties in voodoo culture and I think that these medicine men have acquired quite some intimate knowledge about these dangerous drugs (that is more practical and 'hands-on' than our academic knowledge and understanding). That should allow them to better dose the toxin so that it would cause paralysis and not death but I imagine the rich toxic cocktail complicates matters due to interactions and synergies. Anyway since it is such a heavy penalty I trust that they would be fine with death and have some way to explain when that happens (e.g. "his soul was too dirty to ever be purified again").
So no, dosing someone with these nasty substances is punishment, whereas dosing with holy sacraments such as ayahuasca, mushrooms or peyote are a privilige and an opportunity for the initiated.
As said in the thread: if you want to know more about nzambi powder watch the Vice documentary for example.
well:
but also:
Again: the pufferfish toxin alone does not cause zombie effects but depending on the dose paralysis or death. The zombie curse ritual was or is performed as one of the heaviest penalties in voodoo culture and I think that these medicine men have acquired quite some intimate knowledge about these dangerous drugs (that is more practical and 'hands-on' than our academic knowledge and understanding). That should allow them to better dose the toxin so that it would cause paralysis and not death but I imagine the rich toxic cocktail complicates matters due to interactions and synergies. Anyway since it is such a heavy penalty I trust that they would be fine with death and have some way to explain when that happens (e.g. "his soul was too dirty to ever be purified again").
So no, dosing someone with these nasty substances is punishment, whereas dosing with holy sacraments such as ayahuasca, mushrooms or peyote are a privilige and an opportunity for the initiated.
As said in the thread: if you want to know more about nzambi powder watch the Vice documentary for example.
well:
wiki said:
but also:
lovepsychadelics
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Yes some fish have been used predominantly by Polynesian peoples for ritual ceremony. The Romans just used one type to get blind at their Bacchanalia orgies to praise the god Bacchus... I feel it's more of a deliriant like datura but a milder version. I've eaten a few dream fish and the experience can range from absolutely nothing to vivid dreams and lethargy lasting a couple days. Depends on the size, age and time of year the fish was caught. Very different to Ciguatera poisoning which can last weeks to month and even years... Pufferfish never make it into the boat we just cut the line and heave them overboard. Nasty little fuckers those things!
I think Jonathan Ott wrote of these fish in Pharmacotheon - [ I have read about it somewhere ].
The Australian relatives are Silver Drummer [ NSW ] and Buffalo Bream [ WA ] ; and there are many others of the family around the world . They are not rated highly as table fish , although some people will eat them . AFIK , the Australian species are not reported to be notably toxic , but this could be due to location .
These types of fish eat small crustaceans and seaweed . Some species of fish can become toxic to humans from their diet - e.g cigateura poisoning , etc , in some locations , but not in others .
A friend was intrigued by this matter some years ago , and was wondering about the " Loaves and Fishes " Biblical legend . He was speculating whether the " loaves " might be a metaphorical grain - further extrapolating his notion with the possibility of the legendary grain being Syrian Rue which grows in the Biblical lands .
He suggested that consumption of a combination of Syrian Rue and psychoactive fish might produce a psychedelic type experience , thus giving rise to the " Loaves and Fishes " legend ....
Regrettably , my friend declined to subjectively test his hypothesis [ the coward ! ] and it remains mere speculation ....
But nevertheless , the notion of psychoactive fish is indeed intriguing - thank you for raising this subject . [ I love the trip reports , esp the party with the naked guests where the band played : " Yes , we have no pygamas ...." !!! ]
The Australian relatives are Silver Drummer [ NSW ] and Buffalo Bream [ WA ] ; and there are many others of the family around the world . They are not rated highly as table fish , although some people will eat them . AFIK , the Australian species are not reported to be notably toxic , but this could be due to location .
These types of fish eat small crustaceans and seaweed
A friend was intrigued by this matter some years ago , and was wondering about the " Loaves and Fishes " Biblical legend . He was speculating whether the " loaves " might be a metaphorical grain - further extrapolating his notion with the possibility of the legendary grain being Syrian Rue which grows in the Biblical lands .
He suggested that consumption of a combination of Syrian Rue and psychoactive fish might produce a psychedelic type experience , thus giving rise to the " Loaves and Fishes " legend ....
Regrettably , my friend declined to subjectively test his hypothesis [ the coward ! ] and it remains mere speculation ....
But nevertheless , the notion of psychoactive fish is indeed intriguing - thank you for raising this subject . [ I love the trip reports , esp the party with the naked guests where the band played : " Yes , we have no pygamas ...." !!! ]
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