Getting of H and oxycodone..

[Chubbyninja]

Hi i was wondering, how bad the wds will be and what i can expect after one year of about 300 mg oxy ivd three to four days at month and rest of the time two to three bags of White H.. where i live a bag is abort 50- 70 mg..
Took my last shot yeasterday at 11.30 in the morning and 20 mg loperamide 21.30
Woke up at 8.30 and took 20 mg more and at 9.30 i took 100 mg loperamide.. now its 15.00 and i am pretty high and feeling good?
Will this last untill im over the H withdrawals or am i in for hell..

Am i right in thinking that 2-3 bags is not a huge amount?

 

[steewith2ees]

It's difficult to quantify how much discomfort you will experience as there are so many variables but needless to say if you have been using daily for a year, regardless of what the substance or the dose is, I would expect to feel quite poorly for a week or so. It is too early to see how well the loperamide would hold it off but it is dangerous to use it in those amounts as it can seriously damage your heart.

 

[Shambles]

Agreed on all of that, Stee

I'd say the oxy is basically irrelevant in the situation you describe as it is occasional binge use with reasonably lengthy gaps between binges. How much heroin is in your heroin, how long you have been using, how many times you have w/d previously, and how well you cope with all the different aspects of w/d is what it comes down to.

Loperamide can help somewhat but, as Stee notes, is not wise to be taking in large quantities and especially not for any extended period. Personally, I would suggest sticking to standard symptomatic doses of lope - just enough to hold back the worse of the squits - and add in other symptomatic meds (paracetamol, ibuprofen, maybe something to help you relax a little even if sleep is off the menu for a few days).

Everybody has to pay the piper sooner or later - what goes up... - so you kinda just have to consider it part of the deal when using opies on a regular basis. How high that price is in any particular payment plan varies with a whole host of factors - many of which are not practical to quantify.

So the long and the short of it is that it will be unpleasant, but just how unpleasant is gonna be different for each person each time they go through w/d. The good news is that it should be over and done with in around about a week... aside from the psychological aspects which is a whole other matter with even more individual variations - most would agree it is the psychological and emotional facets of w/d that are the real problem though. The physical stuff is horrid but brief, the other stuff is why people get caught up in cycles of addiction and w/d for decades...

Having said all that, hope you get lucky on all counts and find it all a doddle! Do please keep us updated - many here have gone through countless w/d and can certainly empathise

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

If you can get them (any of them) suggested meds to try and obtain would be:

First and formost, Even if you need to keep using opioids until it arrives from a mail order pharmacy, MEMANTINE! its a long acting NMDA antagonist with rapid dissociation kinetics, relatively low affinity (somewhat higher than the native magnesium cation which blocks NMDArs at resting potential) and it near completely annihilates opioid withdrawal symptoms, cravings, drops tolerance like a stone and inhibits the building of tolerance (it slows it down, does not stop it entirely)

Best things ever for opioid WD, if you can't get it, then LOW dose repeated ket, MXE, (not talking enough to hole you) or preferably one of the longer lasting derivatives. Diphenidine would be ideal. Diphenidine MAY even have weak (codeine level or a little above) opioid effects and blunt the effects of withdrawal still further, it also has some stimulating properties, Since it is a lefetamine analog (lefetamine is a diphenylethylamine compound that possesses both similarity to, and shared activity with amphetamine, some NMDA receptor blocking effects and weak opioid agonist effects (hence where the derivation of codeine-level to a little above or below with diphenidine) Diphenidine would probably be the best one, short of memantine.

Memantine will leave you functional and active even at fairly high doses without dropping you into a 'hole' due to its unusual binding kinetics, being an uncompetitive antagonist, of low affinity and IIRC fairly rapid on-off binding kinetics, with fairly weak binding. Whereas ketamine and the like are noncompetitive antagonists (IIRC ket itself also binds as an antagonist or negative allosteric modulator at an allosteric site on NMDARs). Memantine requires the ion channel to be opened before binding can occur, so it only binds and works as an NMDA antagonist when the NMDA calcium channel is open and the receptor active, so that the net result is antagonism of excess NMDAr signalling as occurs in withdrawal but without throwing you into a hole (you CAN get there, but it takes a large quantity and it will last a LONG fucking time too) I've taken it at 100mg/twice daily before and not ended up dissociated and fucked up, I could certainly feel the dissociative 'signature' and tell that the drug I was taking, was an NMDA antagonist.

If you really can get no others, then DXM. It'll help a lot. Go for tesco own brand rather than robitussin or benylin. Benylin is better than robitussin, robitussin is the worst of the lot. Tesco brand is 10mg/5ml, much stronger than the others and the good thing about it is although high as fuck in sugar, it is actual sugar in the syrup, not sorbitol, which will give you the major shits, stomach cramps etc. if you don't do an extraction on the syrup to get at the DXM hydrobromide and if you were to just drink them as is.Tesco own brand is much cheaper and is based on sucrose/glucose syrup not sorbitol. Sorbitol cannot be digested like sugar is and the result is intestinal bacteria having a go at it and producing a ton of gas and also it acts as a fairly powerful laxative due to its osmotic effects when consumed in large quantities.

The tesco stuff can be drank as is as long as you aren't diabetic. Indication is for a dry cough, the stuff you want is own brand dry cough stuff based on dextromethorphan.



Oh and be aware it potentiates opioids if taken alongside them like something fucking mental.

Other options: clonidine, tizanidine, lofexidine. These are all alpha2 adrenoreceptor antagonists. They are not a perfect total solution but they do help moderate the catecholaminergic adrenal storm that occurs during opioid WD, the part that makes your skin crawl, helps with the akathisia, (as do NMDA antagonists) With opioid WD it basically causes both glutamatergic overactivation and a massive overstimulation of the sympathetic nervous system. Wonder why you sweat bullets, your heart races and you feel like your adrenal glands ache so badly they are going to burst? thats why.

Clonidine, tizanidine (this one is also a potent muscle relaxer and if your new to it it may well knock you out. Better have a milk bottle to piss in by the bedside just in case) because these, (I take both, tizanidine because after an operation, on my knee, they damaged a nerve and left me with permanent cramping and spasticity in my calf that is exceedingly painful, basically the nerve/s that tell the muscle to contract are constantly active whilst those that tell it to relax cannot perform, or at least do so only poorly) the result being a constant, agonizing muscle spasm) and the clonidine I take to prevent and/or shortcut sensory overloads (I'm autistic, they happen. Or they try to. Clondine and other adrenergic autoreceptor agonists stamp on them pretty hard) I''ve never taken lofexidine but it should be pretty simple and its indicated specifically for opiate WD. Called britlofex.

The reason I say 'piss bottle' is because if you take a large enough dose it will drop your blood pressure like a stone, these drugs work by suppressing
noradrenaline/adrenaline release, via activating the adrenergic autoreceptor, which tells the body 'hey we got too much adrenaline/NA
circulating, hey, adrenal glands, STOP DOING THAT!. If this happens the result is orthostatic hypotension,
meaning your fine lying down flat, but trying to stand will make your ears ring, your vision cloud over and potentially drop you right to the floor
the solution if that does happen is to bend forward at the waist and hold on to something solid,bending like this helps make it so the heart
has to work much less to pump blood round your vasculature, If it isn't too severe you can straighten up, slowly, giving the body
time to compensate, otherwise you may have to walk like that or not walk at all, which is where the piss bottles come in.

Its got me right now, I can barely get to the bog.

Also some sort of sedating antihistamine with anticholinergic effects. Cyclizine is probably best;to counter the muscarinic overactivation, Although clonidine etc work well for helping with the overheating, the sweating and tearing and heps big time (especially when plugged, it'll turn you from about to spew to back to normal guts wise in moments if powdered liquidized and stuffed up the jacksie) also ondansetron if you can get a rx for it (may be difficult, I have one, (I've a rx, get more than I need, for my stomach troubles, its just that its hideously expensive for the NHS, massively so, so they are really reluctant to give away so much as a single pill. (cost for ten is nearly 80-120 quid), I'd look in the BNF but my BP is too low for me to move off the couch atm and get my copy. Plus there is no guarantee that it won't be in the section that got accidentally iodinated to fuck

(yeah, I know, I know. Put that one down to 'shit happens'

So usually they reserve it for cancer patients on the nastier chemo regimens. Same w/ gabapentin which helps some people, I have it on rx but I don't use it bar once or twice in a blue moon. Helps some people, doesn't do much for me. Got tons of the stuff as 100mg caps.