Misc General (kratom) info

[MBoxer511]

General kratom info

GENERAL KRATOM INFO​

General information about Kratom for beginners and experts alike. To be used as a quick reference guide.​

*As a rule of thumb Kratom is similar to opiates. This means the effects, drug interactions, addiction potential, half life, withdrawal and negative side effects are comparable to low strength opiates*​

KRATOM COLOR/STRAINS


There are three (3) color strains of Kratom:

- White Leaf
- Green Leaf
- Red Leaf

• White Leaf produces more stimulating effects. This is the type best used during the day, it will give caffeine like energy. The most popular type of white leaf is called White Leaf Maeng Da. Per volume Maeng Da (regardless of leaf color) is MORE potent than other strands, so use less at first.

• Red Leaf produces more of a sedating effect. This is type best used during the evening. A popular red leaf strain is Red Leaf Borneo or Red Indo.

• Green Leaf is somewhere in between. It's been know to be somewhat edgy as Kratom has the unusual property that taking a small amount can be stimulating but a lot can be sedating. Similar to opiates. You are better off combining White and Red leaf if you are trying to adjust the stimulate/sedate effect to your needs. For example 70% Maeng Da with 30% Borneo to take some of the edge off but not get you too sleepy. A popular green leaf strain is Green Leaf Bali and Green Leaf Maeng Da

*Keep in mind many strains come in green, red and white versions. The color will decide which way it will lean on the scale between stimulating and relaxing. Among all color strains Bali and Maeng Da are the most popular.*

FUN FACT: The color of the leaf is dependent on the light spectrum it is exposed too. Red light for red leaf, blue light for green leaf and white light for white leaf.




DURATION

• ON SET - If taken on an empty stomach (~3 hours or more since last meal) Kratom will take approximately 1 hour for effects to begin. Depending on the form of delivery this could vary slightly. I also find that when I eat my first meal at least an hour after consuming Kratom that it makes it kick in stronger. Perhaps this is because the food get's my digestive system moving.

• PEAK – Peak effects begin within 1.5 to 2 hours after initial ingestion. Lasting around 2-3 hours before coming down.

• DURATION – Assuming you have no tolerance the average duration of effects is 4-8 hours. This will vary based on the strain consumed, amount taken, method of ingestion and whether your stomach is empty or not.

• HALF LIFE – The approximate HALF LIFE of Kratom is 4-6 hours. This means that every 4-6 hours HALF of the chemical compound has been broken down by you body (very similar to opiates). If for instance you take 5 grams now then ANOTHER 5 grams 4 hours later you would actually have 7.5 grams in your system (2.5g + 5g = 7.5).

KRATOM FORMS

• Powders – These are the stems and leaves ground into a powder form. This is the most common form online retailers sell. Similar to the consistency of standard grind coffee.

• UF (Ultra Fine) Powders - Same as the powders but ground to the consistency of talcum powder. Usually they have less stems/veins in the ground. This form mixes the best. WARNING: Due to the high density if using a measuring spoon LOOSELY fill it. A compact spoon could have twice as much UF powder as would fit a regular grind. Additionally tap the measured spoon into your cup (if making a drink) otherwise the powder will hold it's form and not break apart when stirring.

• Leaves – Leaves can be chewed when taken from the tree. This is the least effective due to low surface area.

• Tincture – It can be melted and extracted into a tincture. Be careful with this form of Kratom as it is VERY easy to accidentally take too much. Really only necessary if you have a HIGH tolerance to Kratom and don't want to ingest several grams of powder at a time.

• Extract – An enhanced version so one does not have to take as much, you can make an extraction so less is more. Like what liquor is to beer. Be careful with this form of Kratom as it is VERY easy to accidentally take too much. Really only necessary if you have a HIGH tolerance to Kratom and don't want to ingest grams of powder at a time.

• Pills – Many people don’t like the taste of Kratom powder so they cap it. This option is usually more expensive. It would be more economical to buy empty gelatin casings and make your own. This is done by filling it with measured powder Kratom.

DOSAGE


HOW TO MEASURE THE AMOUNT

• GET A CHEAP SCALE OR MEASURING SPOONS! – Taking a couple grams more or less will have noticeable differences on the effect of Kratom. A cheap digital scale (that weighs in grams) from any headshop or online will do fine. A balancing scale can also be used and is probably the most accurate (and possibly time consuming) option.

• Measuring Spoon - One (1) teaspoon (the TINY spoon NOT the larger tablespoon) holds 4.2 grams or 5mL (from base to rim, NOT with powder ABOVE the teaspoon rim). You can also use the smaller measuring teaspoons. The 1/4 size measuring teaspoon (1/4 tsp) is equal to about 1 gram or ~1mL.

• METRIC Measurements: If you are outside America you can use a 1ml measuring spoon (equal to a US 1/4 teaspoon). This will equal ~1g. You can also use the clear measuring cups that come with cough medicine as long as they have markings in mL.

*I like to measure with the 1/4 teaspoon (aka 1ml spoon), it's more accurate and easier to do the math since it equals 1 gram or ~1mL. If you fill the 1/4 tsp a little too much or not enough it won't make as big of a difference as if you were to make that mistake with a larger spoon.





AMOUNT TO TAKE

• 1-3 Grams (~1-3mL): This is the STARTING dose to use when discovering what works for you. Take it on an empty stomach (at least 3 hours after last meal). Then wait at least 1 hour before taking more if effects are not felt. Stimulating effects range in this dosage.
  

• 3-5 Grams (~3-6mL): This is the AVERAGE dose most people take. However do not start with this when trying Kratom for the first time OR when trying a new strand. Some stands can be more potent due to being more finely ground or just inherent to the strain taken. Start at 1-3 grams, taking an additional gram every hour than waiting an additional hour for it to kick in until you have discovered the right dosage for yourself. Pain relief and sedating effects range in this dosage.

• 5-8 Grams (~6-10mL): This is the range where the border begins when the most stimulating effects of Kratom can become sedating. Similar to an opiate nod. It is also the range where (if you're not use to taking Kratom) you risk bad side effects like nausea.

• 8+ Grams (10+ mL): Only take this much if you know what you are doing. Much like pot you can't overdose on Kratom but you can get sick. This is usually the range for Kratom tolerant people and/or weaker strains. For the intolerant this amount will amplify the negative side effects.

*Be aware that the above dosages are for what you should be absorbing. It is common that as much as a 1 or 2 grams might never make it to your mouth. This is from the Kratom getting stuck to the side of the cup you are drinking it from. If this is the case add ~1 gram to compensate.





HOW TO INGEST KRATOM


Kratom DOES NOT MIX WELL! Regardless of the grind type you will have a difficult time trying to mix it with cold juice, milk, water, etc. Also a decent amount of Kratom will get stuck on the sides of your cup after drinking. Using hot liquids or a SMALL bottle that you can vigorously shake can help overcome this mixing issue.

• Toss and Wash – This is preformed by taking a gram or 2 of Kratom at a time and throwing it in the back of your mouth. While resting on your tongue quickly wash it down with juice or a beverage of your choice. CAREFUL there is a chance you might gag as Kratom is bitter and can get stuck in your mouth. This method is fast with very little Kratom lost in the process but can be the most uncomfortable method.

• Milk Shake Method – Get (or prepare) a small bottle of chocolate milk and dump your dose of Kratom in the milk and shake vigorously. The thicker milk mixes well with Kratom while a number of other water base liquids (like cold juice) do not mix well.

• Tea Method – Kratom tea is another very popular way to consume. Most people put their desired Kratom in water and squeeze a fresh lemon into it. Then boil for 20 minutes on med-low. After which they strain the Kratom and consume the liquid. You can also make any type of hot liquid and stir in the Kratom, drinking it altogether. The Kratom mixes MUCH better in hot liquid. Hot Chocolate works well. Try to avoid coffee, it can cause nausea or aggravate other symptoms while waiting for the Kratom to kick in.

• Capsules – You can cap your Kratom and then swallow the capsules so you don’t have to taste it. Be aware you will probably need to make and swallow around 10-20 capsule for one (1) Kratom dose. The advantage is that there is no bitter taste and full dosage is delivered.

• Parachuting - Similar to capsules this is when you take a gram of powder and wrap it in a small piece of tissue or toilet paper. You place it on your tongue and wash it down with a drink QUICKLY before it unfolds in your mouth. The paper will instantly open and dissolve in your stomach allowing you to ingest the Kratom while bypassing your taste buds.

• Hot Chocolate w/ Milk - This is my preferred method. Make a mug of hot chocolate using only milk and powdered hot chocolate mix. Fill a mug with milk, microwave it for 90-120 seconds (depending on the size of the mug), mix in the powdered hot chocolate THEN stir in a MEASURED amount of Kratom. Continuously stir the entire time you are drinking to keep the Kratom evenly disperse in the mug. Otherwise it will begin to rise to the top. This method works well because the milk is hot and thick which makes it much easier to mix in the Kratom. The hot chocolate mix masks the taste very well due to all the sugar. You can choose to make a large mug (~12+ oz) to dilute the Kratom and reduce the taste. Alternatively you can make a smaller mug (~8-10oz) which will have a stronger taste but you can drink faster for quicker absorption

POSSIBLE NEGATIVE SIDE-EFFECTS

• Nausea

• Upset stomach / throwing up

• Hot / cold flashes

• Dizziness

• Headache

• Sedation when taken in higher doses

• Dependency if taken for more than 7-14 days straight

WARNINGS & TIPS

• Do not drink alcohol with Kratom.

• Do not take other drugs with Kratom.

• Do not take Kratom if you’re taking anti-depressants.

• Do not drive while under the influence of Kratom.

• Kratom can become addictive if used continually. Try to keep at least 2-3 days between usage to prevent tolerance and addiction.

• Kratom use is not detected by typical drug screening tests.

• Store Kratom in glass jars, sealed Ziploc bags or plastic Tupperware containers in either the fridge or a dry, room temperature cabinet. Kratom can last for years this way.

• Keep stored Kratom away from moisture!

• Kratom teabags can be kept in the fridge for 4 days before it begins to lose its potency.

 

[i are spectre]

ive weighed hundreds of teaspoons of kratom, mine always averaged 2.1g, even when doing 100's of scoops at once and dividing the weight by the scoops, for weight per scoop. i've used all brands, blends, and different vendors for years.

 

[Scrofula]

This is why spoons and cups are bad measures on an international board, even if a "teaspoon-ful" is pretty universally 5mL.

Folks could save the caps to their Nyquil or Pepto bottles to get a more exact volume measure.

 

[Mycophile]

No offense, but I think we have pretty much all of this already in the Kratom megathreads, but this could be good for a short and to-the-point post.

I tend to differ on some of your points like I do like to mix other drugs with Kratom like weed, Phenibut, F-Phenibut, nitrous etc.

Also, while most people don't like to drink on Kratom I sometimes do like it, but generally only when weed is also involved which IMO is a great combo.

I also am on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds when I take my Kratom (Lexapro and Klonopin) and don't really see why a person can't combine it with certain anti-depressants, and while I would definitely agree it is best not to drive on Kratom, I sometimes enjoy it but only when on a lower-non sedating dose, and it's generally something I think everyone should avoid.

 

[MBoxer511]

ive weighed hundreds of teaspoons of kratom, mine always averaged 2.1g, even when doing 100's of scoops at once and dividing the weight by the scoops, for weight per scoop. i've used all brands, blends, and different vendors for years.

It depends on the grind. A 1/4 teaspoon will average 1 gram. If you are using ultra-fine powdered Kratom that is packed tightly in the spoon it could be 2-3 grams. If you are using course ground Kratom that is not packed it could be less then a gram. The advantage of using the 1/4 teaspoon is that +- of Kratom is smaller. For instance if you used a tablespoon then you could have fluctuation of 2-3 grams per spoon which would make a big difference on effect.

I try to combat this by loosely scooping the Kratom in the measuring spoon and also tapping it into the glass I plan to drink from so it doesn't clump together. This keeps some consistency in measurement. If I pack it into the spoon I find I get big chunks on the bottom of my mug that didn't dissolve when I mixed it.

 

[MBoxer511]

No offense, but I think we have pretty much all of this already in the Kratom megathreads, but this could be good for a short and to-the-point post.

I tend to differ on some of your points like I do like to mix other drugs with Kratom like weed, Phenibut, F-Phenibut, nitrous etc.

Also, while most people don't like to drink on Kratom I sometimes do like it, but generally only when weed is also involved which IMO is a great combo.

I also am on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds when I take my Kratom (Lexapro and Klonopin) and don't really see why a person can't combine it with certain anti-depressants, and while I would definitely agree it is best not to drive on Kratom, I sometimes enjoy it but only when on a lower-non sedating dose, and it's generally something I think everyone should avoid.

I appreciate the feedback. The purpose of this post was to give beginners a go-to post that covers the basics of Kratom. If you're using Kratom for the first time it's a horrible idea to mix it with other drugs. You'll have no idea which effects are coming from the Kratom and which from the drug. You have to start off clean in order to tell what effect different strains are giving you and at what dosages. Once someone is familiar with what type and dosage of Kratom works for them THEN they could consider mixing it.

 

[MBoxer511]

This is why spoons and cups are bad measures on an international board, even if a "teaspoon-ful" is pretty universally 5mL.

Folks could save the caps to their Nyquil or Pepto bottles to get a more exact volume measure.

I didn't consider that. Do they not sell cooking measuring spoons like 1/4 teaspoons and tablespoons in other countries?

5mL is equal to 4.245 grams. So 1/4 teaspoon would be equal to about 1mL.

I just edited the post to reflect metric measurements. I believe the conversions are right.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

I personally love taking kratom with coffee in the morning. Great combo IMO. I also think scales are worry getting. You can buy accurate enough balances for less than 10 bucks online, and then you'll actually know exactly how much you're using.

I would also add that kratom can be more than mildly addicting. When you start taking 15-20+ grams a day for an extended period of time, many people have reported WD that are just as bad as those from harder opioids. I think it's best to only use it like once or twice a week recreationally, or if you're using it treat a medical condition, use the least amount that allows you to cope with your problem.

 

[MBoxer511]

I personally love taking kratom with coffee in the morning. Great combo IMO. I also think scales are worry getting. You can buy accurate enough balances for less than 10 bucks online, and then you'll actually know exactly how much you're using.

I would also add that kratom can be more than mildly addicting. When you start taking 15-20+ grams a day for an extended period of time, many people have reported WD that are just as bad as those from harder opioids. I think it's best to only use it like once or twice a week recreationally, or if you're using it treat a medical condition, use the least amount that allows you to cope with your problem.

A lot of those tips were more directed at first time users. I personally haven't tried it with coffee because I found taking a few grams of green leaf in the morning (mixed in hot chocolate) gave me as much energy as coffee. Except it lasted longer and I didn;t crash as hard.

A balance is a good idea, could be more time consuming but is also more accurate. I'll add that in the post as an option.

You're right about the addiction potential. I'll modify that warning.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Scrofula]

I didn't consider that. Do they not sell cooking measuring spoons like 1/4 teaspoons and tablespoons in other countries?

5mL is equal to 4.245 grams. So 1/4 teaspoon would be equal to about 1mL.

I just edited the post to reflect metric measurements. I believe the conversions are right.

Well, see, that last line is part of the problem. Seriously, a random teaspoon in the US could be 4.245 mL, or it could be a standardized metric teaspoon of exactly 5mL. And it can be the smallest spoon in some cutlery sets. Australians have a 20mL tablespoon despite the rest of the Earth preferring 15mL (or the non-metric volume).

I think for measuring these amounts of non-standard grind drug, the ten percent variability in teaspoon volume possibility isn't that big a problem.

It's more like, get a nice scale, tare your favorite appropriately sized scoop, and make an individual standard.

I was feeling pedantic and pointless, but I guess it is a bit important to point it out, because for readers at home without a scale, they might use these teaspoon measures that seem to be off by 100% sometimes. If we're talking international, I bet the grinds aren't standardized either, so you can't say "3/4 tsp of grind number 5" and be certain about your dose.

But then I don't think anyone's gonna die after using a non-standardized teaspoon.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Fortunately it's not going to be a big safety concern if dosing isn't quite accurate, but it could be a huge problem with addiction. There's a big difference between taking 8g a day and 12g a day. WD from 8g/day is very manageable CT, but 12g/day is a lot tougher IME. Ive also noticed significant variability in density with certain batches. Usually they're pretty consistent with the same vendor, but every do often I'll get something with a very different density.

I concur with scrof that it's worth getting a scale to use every time or use to make your own standard. If you figure out 1tsp is x grams, then you can proceed with just measuring teaspoons and know more or less exactly what you're dosing

 

[MBoxer511]

Well, see, that last line is part of the problem. Seriously, a random teaspoon in the US could be 4.245 mL, or it could be a standardized metric teaspoon of exactly 5mL. And it can be the smallest spoon in some cutlery sets. Australians have a 20mL tablespoon despite the rest of the Earth preferring 15mL (or the non-metric volume).

I think for measuring these amounts of non-standard grind drug, the ten percent variability in teaspoon volume possibility isn't that big a problem.

It's more like, get a nice scale, tare your favorite appropriately sized scoop, and make an individual standard.

I was feeling pedantic and pointless, but I guess it is a bit important to point it out, because for readers at home without a scale, they might use these teaspoon measures that seem to be off by 100% sometimes. If we're talking international, I bet the grinds aren't standardized either, so you can't say "3/4 tsp of grind number 5" and be certain about your dose.

But then I don't think anyone's gonna die after using a non-standardized teaspoon.

As far as the "coffee grind" comparison, I was just looking for some sort of reference people could use to understand what a standard grind most retails sell would look like. That compared to an Ultra Fine grind (which is like talcum powder). Even when I've bought the same "grind type" from a retailer, different color leafs and strains seemed more course or fine when I compared them side-by-side.

I think a scale is going to be the most accurate but using a 1/4 teaspoon or 1mL spoon would result in the smallest amount of inconsistency. That's why I stress to use the 1ml or 1/4 teaspoon sized spoon. Considering it's so small to begin with the differences between spoon brands and metric vs imperial would probably be +- .25 ml or g. Of course the grind and how densely one packs the spoon will also vary the weight. Best way might be to use both methods: weight out a gram then see how much space that gram takes up the smallest measuring spoon. Once you know stick to only using that spoon.

For myself I always use the exact same spoon, so even if it is slightly more or less I know I'm staying consistent. I keep it right next to my Kratom

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I know this has been mentioned already but it was a big surprise to me when I first discovered it: I bought two different sets of measuring spoons and there was a clear difference between the amount one teaspoon measured from the one set to the other set. Same with tablespoon. The difference was even more noticeable with the tablespoons than the teaspoons. I confirmed the differences with several 'tests' verified by measuring everything with a scale.

I was flabbergasted, I thought these were clearly defined standards but apparently not (or one, or both, of the manufacturers were lax in design specifications?)

 

[Scrofula]

Yeah, the plastic teaspoon in your drawer that's gone through the wash a hundred times and once got left too close to the burner and isn't quite the same shape anymore--the original specs on the die that produced it were as loose as the belt could handle.

I'm absolutely not knocking your work, boxer. And really, for a new user, reading about dosage in so many grams, there is otherwise no mental image to associate. Even if it varies a lot, saying a gram is around a 1/4 teaspoon is very helpful. Some bro would pick up a ladle wondering what two grams looks like, so this at the very least gets them close.



If you want more pedantism, measurement error is considered to generally go down as your measures get bigger. It depends a lot on the system you're using, of course. I already banged my head on this a while ago, trying to visualize perfect half-sphere teaspoons, scaling up, volume change per error rate, realized there would be some math, and gabapentin came to my rescue and murdered those math neurons I might have strained.

You're probably right in this case, but if you applied for some bench lab work and were asked, say error goes down as volume increases.

 

[Mycophile]

I appreciate the feedback. The purpose of this post was to give beginners a go-to post that covers the basics of Kratom. If you're using Kratom for the first time it's a horrible idea to mix it with other drugs. You'll have no idea which effects are coming from the Kratom and which from the drug. You have to start off clean in order to tell what effect different strains are giving you and at what dosages. Once someone is familiar with what type and dosage of Kratom works for them THEN they could consider mixing it.

Yeah I agree it's better for beginners to use Kratom by itself till they know what to expect.

I also have never really gotten different effects from different strains but that's a different matter.

I kind of wish I would but I've tried all different types of green, red, white, even strains they call Yellows, and while some might feel slightly different I've never really been able to feel as if white = energizing, red = sedating and green = in the middle like everyone says.

That seems more dose dependent.

One thing for me across the board is that for whatever reason I usually find white strains to be weak and disappointing so I don't order them but some of that has to do with vendor.

Also, I ALWAYS weigh out my doses and never simply put a certain amount in a spoon.

Different strains and vendors have denser and finer grains and even using the same vendor and strain it's very easy to miscalculate by even as much as a gram in the wrong direction, usually more like a half gram but still, that adds up depending on how many spoonfulls you use.

It doesn't end up being dangerous, but for me it can mean the difference between a good high, a weak high, or completely ruining my high by taking too much and just ending up sedated and feeling shitty.

Especially after stopping for 10 months, which was a great idea (and even now I'm only playing around for maybe 2 months max and going to stop again because that's smarter IMO) now my tolerance has dropped dramatically and it's very hard for me to find out what my new sweet spot is, so weighing every dose out is key.

 

[MBoxer511]

Yeah, the plastic teaspoon in your drawer that's gone through the wash a hundred times and once got left too close to the burner and isn't quite the same shape anymore--the original specs on the die that produced it were as loose as the belt could handle.

I'm absolutely not knocking your work, boxer. And really, for a new user, reading about dosage in so many grams, there is otherwise no mental image to associate. Even if it varies a lot, saying a gram is around a 1/4 teaspoon is very helpful. Some bro would pick up a ladle wondering what two grams looks like, so this at the very least gets them close.



If you want more pedantism, measurement error is considered to generally go down as your measures get bigger. It depends a lot on the system you're using, of course. I already banged my head on this a while ago, trying to visualize perfect half-sphere teaspoons, scaling up, volume change per error rate, realized there would be some math, and gabapentin came to my rescue and murdered those math neurons I might have strained.

You're probably right in this case, but if you applied for some bench lab work and were asked, say error goes down as volume increases.

That's a difficult concept to get my head around. You're saying that larger measurements have less room for error? I guess I could see that if you were basing it on percentages. A large "ladle" would probably have a smaller percentage of error (due to the large volume) compared to a tiny spoon (which is starting with a smaller amount to begin with).

The 1/4 teaspoon I use is made of metal so I would hope it would retain it's volume potential better then a plastic one. I also noticed that (at least in America) there isn't any real standard or enforcement of cooking measurement tools. If one REALLY wanted to be exact I would guess it would be better to get measurement tools used for chemistry. They're held to higher standards.

 

[Steady Scootin]

While threads like this are good for beginners, that's true, bit it's not like this will be stickied, keeping it from eventually sliding off the first page where people are less likely to see it. Just sayin', since you're obviously putting in a lot of time with the various threads you've been making.

 

[Gunnr]

Thanks Boxer for this info. I read so many other "mega threads" and had to read a million (seemingly) posts and lost interest after awhile. This was a perfect go-to and straight to the point post and is appreciated.

 

[MBoxer511]

Thanks Boxer for this info. I read so many other "mega threads" and had to read a million (seemingly) posts and lost interest after awhile. This was a perfect go-to and straight to the point post and is appreciated.

No problem, glad to help