Flying Ointments? (Datura)

[Torresmo]

I read lots reports about people eating datura seeds/flowers/leaves/etc, and they are simply the funniest ones! However, they seem to be funny only to the ones who read it, and I am glad I searched online before eating some (will never do it).

Then, I remembered reading Castaneda`s "The Teachings of Don Juan", and when he tries datura, don juan makes some kind of paste, then rubs it to his temples (if I remember well), and tells him he shouldn't rub it to his third eye or he could die! only witches and shamans should do that.

So this made me wonder... Maybe the cause of the horrible trips reported is the misuse of Datura, maybe it could be a good experience if used correctly. It seems that, if you us it transdermally, only scopolamine goes through your skin, while the bad toxins stay out.

If you search on google, one of the first sites is this one: http://sarahannelawless.com/2011/09/10/on-flying-ointments/

The owner of this site is a witch and according to her this should not be used to trip but as "an aid for visionary experiences". Well, IMO thats not too far from the concept of psychedelia.

In BL, I found only sparse informations about this, but couldn't find any "Trip" report on flying ointments. Anyone ?

Here goes some interesting quotes from Sarah Lawless` site (I hope she doesn't cast an evil spell against me for doing that):

a flying ointment is a salve or oil infused with psychoactive herbs purportedly used by witches to fly to their Sabbath rites in the early modern period during the height of the witch hunts in Europe.

Solanaceae contain the alkaloids atropine, hyoscyamine and scopolamine

The tropane compound within the Solanaceae family can cause heart problems or even heart failure among other issues when ingested, but if you use them externally they are much less dangerous

The alkaloids present in the traditional herbs used in flying ointments and other preparations have been shown by scientific experiments to activate your pineal gland

by increasing the flow of melatonin inducing a dream-like state while you are awake. Normally, this only happens naturally at night while you are enshrouded in darkness. This results in dream-like experiences and visions that may seem completely real even if you are sitting awake in your kitchen and not flying as a hawk in the sky. I personally differentiate this state from hallucination as it is more of an altered mental state akin to lucid dreaming and is much more relaxed. To enhance this natural effect while using a flying ointment, use it in darkness or at night, and alongside ecstatic trance inducing methods.

I need to say this as clearly as possible: the purpose of a flying ointment is NOT to “trip out” or “trip balls”. If you are hoping to pass out and hallucinate for days, losing all sense of reality, you will be sorely disappointed and should look elsewhere. Flying ointments are an aid, a tool for those with the gift — not a cannon that will shoot you to the otherworld. Flying ointments and their traditional plants are meant to be an aid for visionary experiences, not a wreaking ball to your sanity. If you hallucinate erratically a) your body and brain are freaking out and don’t know how to handle the alkaloids in the poisonous plants because it’s your first time ever using them, or, b) you’ve overdosed and need to cut way back on the dosage (you might also need to make a trip to the ER if they’re severe enough). Uncontrollable hallucinations are the body’s way of dealing with foreign chemicals that have effects our systems aren’t used to.

I am having trouble editing those quotes, I don't know why it gets cut when I save.

 

[phuckingnutz]

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/flying_ointments.html

Here you go. I just hope you have an unbaptized baby lying around...

 

[Ligaturd]

"By increasing the flow of melatonin" umm from what i can remember from previous research on these plants, this is either completely or atleast partially false. Dont scopolamine, hyoscamine etc. Exhibit their effects mostly through being strong anticholinergics?

 

[Crystal Alchemist]

"By increasing the flow of melatonin" umm from what i can remember from previous research on these plants, this is either completely or atleast partially false. Dont scopolamine, hyoscamine etc. Exhibit their effects mostly through being strong anticholinergics?

They sure do.
Scopolamine is the choice anticholingeric for delirious effects.
Especially among criminals.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Castaneda is a huge dong. I read his second book, A Separate Reality, and then I found out it was all FICTION, he was just bullshitting back in the 1960's and '70's.

 

[Solipsis]

So this made me wonder... Maybe the cause of the horrible trips reported is the misuse of Datura, maybe it could be a good experience if used correctly. It seems that, if you us it transdermally, only scopolamine goes through your skin, while the bad toxins stay out.

Yes, it appears to be true if you believe this:
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7800

However the question remains whether we could ever call a scopolamine administration to produce "a good experience" since it is still a deliriant, and a delirium is not to be fucked with of course.

 

[zn13bt]

This thread makes me think of the South African herbalists who switched to using 2C-B instead of their traditional medicines, because it was safer: https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/2cb/2cb_article1.shtml

 

[Torresmo]

Castaneda is a huge dong. I read his second book, A Separate Reality, and then I found out it was all FICTION, he was just bullshitting back in the 1960's and '70's.

Shit! all fiction? Why should he do that? There are so many possibilities when it comes to writing about psychedelic experiences...

However the question remains whether we could ever call a scopolamine administration to produce "a good experience" since it is still a deliriant, and a delirium is not to be fucked with of course.

I think maybe it is possible, There are lots of accounts on its use to "fly" or "shape shift" im just not willing to try right now...
The witch advises to use just a tiny dose of the ointment and she also talks about having "the gift" and warns that if you start to hallucinate its because you overdosed.
Maybe the desired effects can only be achieved by combining the right dose + the right set/setting + the ability achieve a trance state, so that scopolamine only helps in directing your trip.

This thread makes me think of the South African herbalists who switched to using 2C-B instead of their traditional medicines, because it was safer: https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/2cb/2cb_article1.shtml

That`s a good point, and an interesting article by the way. Maybe, with more studies, we could know better about the right dose range for scopolamine.
On the other hand, maybe it was only so extensively used because it was what people had available.

 

[mindseye888]

I recommend forgetting datura as a good experience. Even if there is a line between a delirium inducing dose and flying ointment, it just isn't worth it on the high chance you overshoot that fine line.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Shit! all fiction? Why should he do that? There are so many possibilities when it comes to writing about psychedelic experiences...



I think maybe it is possible, There are lots of accounts on its use to "fly" or "shape shift" im just not willing to try right now...
The witch advises to use just a tiny dose of the ointment and she also talks about having "the gift" and warns that if you start to hallucinate its because you overdosed.
Maybe the desired effects can only be achieved by combining the right dose + the right set/setting + the ability achieve a trance state, so that scopolamine only helps in directing your trip.




That`s a good point, and an interesting article by the way. Maybe, with more studies, we could know better about the right dose range for scopolamine.
On the other hand, maybe it was only so extensively used because it was what people had available.

Yup, pure fiction. I guess he wanted to make a quick buck. I believe the university that gave him his degree or something along those lines revoked it. His first book was used for his thesis or something. It says non-fiction on his books! So misleading. I was so into his second book, it broke my heart to find out it was fiction.

Yet another example proving we shouldn't believe all we hear.

I was so pissed though! I read it believing it to be true, to find out it was all lies really shattered my image of Mexican shamans.

 

[Engage]

It may be useful if you're ever sprayed with Sarin gas. All it did for me was induce a heavy sleep, along with the most hellacious (and totally incurable) dry mouth I've ever experienced. I mean, it was dry mouth from Hell. No amount of water could cure it. Imagine that. Painful, horrendous dry mouth...that doesn't go away even as you pour water over your tongue.
It was like a Greek Myth or something.

A small amount was useful to aid sleep though. Esp, mixed with passion flower.
In fact, I think it's used for that purpose by pharmaceutical companies...