Opioids Fentanyl to subs question

[Single KO]

hey, was wondering if anyone has had any experiences with inducting onto suboxone from a fentanyl habit. I’ve read a few stories on here that really freaked me out saying that some people were experiencing precipitated withdrawal when inducting onto subs waaaay after their last dose of fentanyl, like 72-96 hours after.

I’ve used suboxone to ease me out of heroin withdrawals many times before. I’ve never had a problem with inducting onto subs as long as I wait 24 hours to take my first sub dose (usually 4-8mg). Long story short, the black wasn’t cutting it anymore, so I got into fent. Been using it for about a month straight now, with a period of doing black directly before this month that lasted around 3-4 months.

I want to use subs to ease me out of the fentanyl withdrawal, but I’ve read some stories on here about precipitated withdrawal occurring way after the 24 hour mark. These people said they felt fully in withdrawal when they took the first dose of sub, but then the sub made their symptoms even worse. Just wondering if anyone has had any personal experience with this, or any theories on why this occurs when switching specifically from a fent habit to subs. Some people said they thought it was because fent stays in your system for much longer than other opioids like heroin, but this doesnt really make sense to me unless they meant that fent binds to your opiod receptors for longer than others opioids (as precipitated withdrawal occurs when the bupe pushes any lingering opioids out of your receptors).

Anyways, really freaking out here on whether ill be able to take my normal 4-8mg around the 24 hour mark like usual when coming off a heroin habit, or if that would send me into even worse pain.....i dont think i could wait much longer than 24 hours to induct onto subs as my symptoms are usually quite bad by that time. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

 

[ChinaGroove]

I have never done Fent (other than when it was used to cut the heroin I would buy) but my understandung is this:

Fentanyl has a short half life. However you will see it compared Methadone, an opioid with a long half life. This is due to how excess metabolites that don't make it to a receptor are stored. They are stored in, I believe, bone, fat and muscle tissue due to their high fat solubility. IE even when a receptor is completely clear of Fent metabolites and withdrawl starts to get worse, it is still stored in your tissue.

For this reason, patients have to wait longer to dose on Buprenorphine while coming off Fent, than they would coming off Heroin, Dilaudid, etc. I would imagine 24 hours is nowhere near enough time.With Methadone 72 hours is usually the minimum amount of time and even that often isn't long enough. So with both Methadone and Fentanyl both having a high fat solubility, I would imagine the time table would be similar.

I'm sure there are other posters with more experience with Fent that can give you more precise info.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Suboxone proves its net worth for this scenario.

You may face sickness and still some depression/discomfort... but trust me without subs one will just be in fetal position and sob. At least you can lay down and complain about feeling not normal lol. I think that if you face some sickness initially--don't administer more. It actually doesn't work and just wastes the subs. Try to wait until the next day before administering the next doses if you can! It really wastes the suboxone and scientifically I can't explain why. I'm willing to bet millions are in this same scenario so this thread does really help.

Do not do fent withdrawal without suboxone if you can. Absolutely not...... Feels like an LSD trip gone wrong. It is so horrible really. I can't type it out just know! That feeling is the worst thing I've ever felt literally. I just sat there being attacked by oxygen. Kind of the closest I can relay to anyone who hasn't felt it. Don't! I have no plans to ever feel fentynal again, but if I did for some reason I would not in any shape or form allow myself to not have suboxone at that moment. So. Horrible.

It's not HR to say but maybe it actually is : some withdrawals that can't kill are so crippling that you will die in a metaphorical sense. I'm still traumatized from it all lol. Opiate withdrawal can't kill you per say (so few have died and from dehydration really). However, opiate withdrawal can make you wish you never existed. Can be that bad and it is just life now. I guess I could be exaggerating but I honestly don't think that I am.

 

[Elchicodeoro]

Suboxone proves its net worth for this scenario.

You may face sickness and still some depression/discomfort... but trust me without subs one will just be in fetal position and sob. At least you can lay down and complain about feeling not normal lol. I think that if you face some sickness initially--don't administer more. It actually doesn't work and just wastes the subs. Try to wait until the next day before administering the next doses if you can! It really wastes the suboxone and scientifically I can't explain why. I'm willing to bet millions are in this same scenario so this thread does really help.

Do not do fent withdrawal without suboxone if you can. Absolutely not...... Feels like an LSD trip gone wrong. It is so horrible really. I can't type it out just know! That feeling is the worst thing I've ever felt literally. I just sat there being attacked by oxygen. Kind of the closest I can relay to anyone who hasn't felt it. Don't! I have no plans to ever feel fentynal again, but if I did for some reason I would not in any shape or form allow myself to not have suboxone at that moment. So. Horrible.

It's not HR to say but maybe it actually is : some withdrawals that can't kill are so crippling that you will die in a metaphorical sense. I'm still traumatized from it all lol. Opiate withdrawal can't kill you per say (so few have died and from dehydration really). However, opiate withdrawal can make you wish you never existed. Can be that bad and it is just life now. I guess I could be exaggerating but I honestly don't think that I am.

I’m attempting to kick pressed M30s been using them for almost 2 years pretty steady. Huge tolerance. I have all the necessary things to help ease my withdrawal, but how long should I wait before I take suboxone? I really really really want to avoid precipitated withdrawal. I have gaba, soma, and hydroxizine as well. Any feedback would be welcomed.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I’m attempting to kick pressed M30s been using them for almost 2 years pretty steady. Huge tolerance. I have all the necessary things to help ease my withdrawal, but how long should I wait before I take suboxone? I really really really want to avoid precipitated withdrawal. I have gaba, soma, and hydroxizine as well. Any feedback would be welcomed.

Fent right? Oh dear. The problem is that prolonged fent use stays in your fat tissue for a good while. Correct me if I'm wrong. You should wait until you feel like you're absolutely dying. Probably around the peak of sickness kicking in...

I don't experience precipitated withdrawal (weird right?) but I know I've taken suboxone way too soon when I feel so tired. I'll sleep the entire day and can't seem to wake up and get out of bed. If the timing is right to administer the sub though, I'll feel a huge wave of relief and energy. The timing is ridiculously tricky. Even doctors get the timing wrong sometimes. Either way, the day after the terrible fatigue from the strip being administered too early is fine. I can administer more suboxone. The thing that you don't want to do is not feel relief after the first sub and take more and more suboxone (absolutely waste of good meds). If the first strip doesn't help you feel better (or pill/whatever suboxone form you have) you should wait until the day after to administer any more of it and just accept your doomed fate. You can't even adminster more opiates after the first strip if you feel so sick still. The suboxone somewhat blocks the effects of them. I find even for fent but I'm not sure what others would say about fent use on suboxone or if it would still work for you.

The withdrawal you are about to face without suboxone is going to be a horrible experience and I don't even want to think about what that would feel like, lol. It's just I would not get off it (even temporarily) without subs. It would just be a mentally dangerous spot to be in and an insanely high relapse prone time period for you. If you keep struggling there's a good chance that methadone would just be way better for something like this. Fent use/abuse does not seem to have much of a physical withdrawal like the other opies personally.. but mentally it is the worst one in my opinion. The depression is just not something many people could handle.

 

[SteeleyJ]

If fent is hard to switch onto bupe do you have access to 4 or 5 days worth of a more conventional opioid to get the fentanyl out of your system.... then you would only wait 24-36 hours to switch instead of being uncertain. I have experienced perciptiated withdrawals on heroin using bupe and they are no joke. puking shitting wracked with shivers goosebumps crying nose running...pain. One of the worst experiences of my life. Might be worth it for you if you have access.

 

[RolexLex]

Holy Mackerel, please be careful. I started doing Ｆｅｎｔａｎｙｌ because it's ubiquitous around here, though I prefer black tar. I just assumed Fentanyl was like every other opiate. I have an emergency supply of Suboxone strips, and Like many others I'm no stranger to using suboxone for those days when I cant get Herion. Even if my last usage of heroin was the evening prior, I could wake up and suck on a sub and avoid any discomfort. I've done this many times. However, recently, I've been using fentanyl. That's the only difference. Anyway one morning I woke up and realized I'm going to be too sick to function and decided to let suboxone pinch hit this day. I peeled open my 8mg dose and underneath the tongue it goes. Wow. (I'm getting anxious just recalling this series of unfortunate events. Someone just walked over my grave)
Anyway about 10-15 minutes and, I just don't feel right. Like, I should be falling back asleep. I'm lying in bed but, hmmm, can't seem to relax
Maybe I didn't self administer the strip in the right way... but nah. This is wrong. Something is wrong. What's happening. Looking back I now know that I had just entered hell on earth. Terrible. I can not accurately describe just how intensely miserable I felt. I had to get on a bus and ride downtown to get more opiate..I ended up shitting my pants.i spent 100 bucks on more fentanyl and huffed it up.like the big bad wolf in reverse. It helped a little bit. Barely. It lasted 2-3 days. Hell. Hell on earth.
I would strongly recommend switching to a more traditional opioid for 72 hours before beginning your suboxone.

 

[Elchicodeoro]

Holy Mackerel, please be careful. I started doing Ｆｅｎｔａｎｙｌ because it's ubiquitous around here, though I prefer black tar. I just assumed Fentanyl was like every other opiate. I have an emergency supply of Suboxone strips, and Like many others I'm no stranger to using suboxone for those days when I cant get Herion. Even if my last usage of heroin was the evening prior, I could wake up and suck on a sub and avoid any discomfort. I've done this many times. However, recently, I've been using fentanyl. That's the only difference. Anyway one morning I woke up and realized I'm going to be too sick to function and decided to let suboxone pinch hit this day. I peeled open my 8mg dose and underneath the tongue it goes. Wow. (I'm getting anxious just recalling this series of unfortunate events. Someone just walked over my grave)
Anyway about 10-15 minutes and, I just don't feel right. Like, I should be falling back asleep. I'm lying in bed but, hmmm, can't seem to relax
Maybe I didn't self administer the strip in the right way... but nah. This is wrong. Something is wrong. What's happening. Looking back I now know that I had just entered hell on earth. Terrible. I can not accurately describe just how intensely miserable I felt. I had to get on a bus and ride downtown to get more opiate..I ended up shitting my pants.i spent 100 bucks on more fentanyl and huffed it up.like the big bad wolf in reverse. It helped a little bit. Barely. It lasted 2-3 days. Hell. Hell on earth.
I would strongly recommend switching to a more traditional opioid for 72 hours before beginning your suboxone.

Thanks for the info. I do have access to methadone. Would it be worth my while to try methadone for a few days until I’ve gotten all the fentanyl is out of my system? And I realize then I’ll have to wait for the methadone to dissipate so either way it’s tricky. But thanks for sharing your experience! All the info I can gather is worth it.

 

[RolexLex]

Thanks for the info. I do have access to methadone. Would it be worth my while to try methadone for a few days until I’ve gotten all the fentanyl is out of my system? And I realize then I’ll have to wait for the methadone to dissipate so either way it’s tricky. But thanks for sharing your experience! All the info I can gather is worth it.

I don't know much about methadone ... Maybe this link will help https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAJegQIChAC&usg=AOvVaw2yE5ifF3uH8jV2MbcGgtyp

 

[Metlap86]

Thanks for the info. I do have access to methadone. Would it be worth my while to try methadone for a few days until I’ve gotten all the fentanyl is out of my system? And I realize then I’ll have to wait for the methadone to dissipate so either way it’s tricky. But thanks for sharing your experience! All the info I can gather is worth it.

Hey man, Can you follow up on how it ended up working out? Did you switch to Methadone? My friend Swim is in a similar predicament and would love to hear about your progress or lack there of?

 

[_Chillz305]

What!? fentanyl withdrawals are exclusively nasty. Fentanyl abuse makes someones opioid tolerance artificially higher to almost all other opioids. Although fentanyl has a rapid onset and short duration of action, it is lipophilic, resulting in distribution to the peripheral tissues in a manner that is not dose dependent. Consequently, continuous and prolonged use of fentanyl can result in increased volume of distribution systemically with slow dissipation overall.

Starting suboxone or any other buprenorphine containing drugs, make it a nightmare to induce because of the risk of precipitated withdrawals (I promise you would know PW if you ever had them @GetMeOutOfThisCRAP).

The previous COWS test for buprenorphine induction is no longer a reliable gauge for when it’s safe to induce buprenorphine, because of fentanyl abuse. Some research suggests that a micro-induction of buprenorphine might be a safer method of avoiding precipitated withdrawals for drugs like fentanyl.

Buprenorphine–naloxone “microdosing”: an alternative induction approach for the treatment of opioid use disorder in the wake of North America’s increasingly potent illicit drug market

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

How could I go about dosing an 8mg bupe/2mg nalax strip into the dosage they are talking about in that article? I believe the first dose is 0.5mg… how can I get my strip down that small and know if I’m doing it alright? I already threw myself into PW after trying to induct a tiiiiny amount nasally 24hrs after my last fentanyl dose

 

[Pickledlemons]

Suboxone proves its net worth for this scenario.

You may face sickness and still some depression/discomfort... but trust me without subs one will just be in fetal position and sob. At least you can lay down and complain about feeling not normal lol. I think that if you face some sickness initially--don't administer more. It actually doesn't work and just wastes the subs. Try to wait until the next day before administering the next doses if you can! It really wastes the suboxone and scientifically I can't explain why. I'm willing to bet millions are in this same scenario so this thread does really help.

Do not do fent withdrawal without suboxone if you can. Absolutely not...... Feels like an LSD trip gone wrong. It is so horrible really. I can't type it out just know! That feeling is the worst thing I've ever felt literally. I just sat there being attacked by oxygen. Kind of the closest I can relay to anyone who hasn't felt it. Don't! I have no plans to ever feel fentynal again, but if I did for some reason I would not in any shape or form allow myself to not have suboxone at that moment. So. Horrible.

It's not HR to say but maybe it actually is : some withdrawals that can't kill are so crippling that you will die in a metaphorical sense. I'm still traumatized from it all lol. Opiate withdrawal can't kill you per say (so few have died and from dehydration really). However, opiate withdrawal can make you wish you never existed. Can be that bad and it is just life now. I guess I could be exaggerating but I honestly don't think that I am.

This is a great post. As someone whos gone through fentanyl withdrawal like 20 times.. I totally agree, its like an acid trip! Your mind goes to seem really nightmarish places, it really makes you want to blow your brains out.

That being said, you definitely don't want to go into precipitated withdrawal, so same as always: Only take the suboxone when you are in withdrawal. Forget about hours and days, when withdrawal starts to get unbearable, thats when you take it. This is really important now that street dope isnt just fentanyl its all kinds of who knows what analogues with who knows what half life. Suboxone will make this 100x better for you, even if its takes a while for your body to adapt.

Edit: shit, necropost?

 

[Pickledlemons]

How could I go about dosing an 8mg bupe/2mg nalax strip into the dosage they are talking about in that article? I believe the first dose is 0.5mg… how can I get my strip down that small and know if I’m doing it alright? I already threw myself into PW after trying to induct a tiiiiny amount nasally 24hrs after my last fentanyl dose

You used a suboxone strip nasally?

 

[Elchicodeoro]

How could I go about dosing an 8mg bupe/2mg nalax strip into the dosage they are talking about in that article? I believe the first dose is 0.5mg… how can I get my strip down that small and know if I’m doing it alright? I already threw myself into PW after trying to induct a tiiiiny amount nasally 24hrs after my last fentanyl dose

I recently had some luck using a “bridge” with hydrocodone (like 30 a day) for two days after my last fent dose, then Xanax for a day then my sub strip. I still feel like shit but I’m not in “creepy crawly I wanna die” mode yiu know? I’m semi functional. So good luck friends!

 

[_Chillz305]

You used a suboxone strip nasally?

Yeah, you can dissolve a bit in water and snort it, they do this in prison I’ve been told

 

[Elchicodeoro]

Hey man, Can you follow up on how it ended up working out? Did you switch to Methadone? My friend Swim is in a similar predicament and would love to hear about your progress or lack there of?

I never tried methadone. The more I learned, the less wanted to. The only thing that I’ve tried is “bridging” with hydrocodone for 2 days (like 30 each day) then Xanax on day 3, then started my subs. I still feel like absolute shit but I’m not on the floor clutching my stomach wanting to die. No PW fortunately but it’s still pretty miserable. Hope this helps. Good luck to everyone

 

[PALEKING]

Yeah, you can dissolve a bit in water and snort it, they do this in prison I’ve been told

That's exactly what we did in prison!

 

[BRod]

Thanks for the info. I do have access to methadone. Would it be worth my while to try methadone for a few days until I’ve gotten all the fentanyl is out of my system? And I realize then I’ll have to wait for the methadone to dissipate so either way it’s tricky. But thanks for sharing your experience! All the info I can gather is worth it.

Switching to methadone is a terrible idea. It’s practically worse than Fent when trying to get onto Bupe.

 

[Metlap86]

I never tried methadone. The more I learned, the less wanted to. The only thing that I’ve tried is “bridging” with hydrocodone for 2 days (like 30 each day) then Xanax on day 3, then started my subs. I still feel like absolute shit but I’m not on the floor clutching my stomach wanting to die. No PW fortunately but it’s still pretty miserable. Hope this helps. Good luck to everyone

Keep up the good work bro. Hopefully things are much better now