fell in love again, was too slow, now shes dating my friend i think

[Mysterie]

i have fallen in love twice in my life.

note: this first paragraph is backstory and context, or simply can be read for interest

the first time it was with a friend's (lets call him harry), then current girlfriend (jess). i was head over heels and she was like a goddess to me. this was two years ago and i was more painfully shy than i am now, it tore me apart to be around her where i couldn't be honest with my feelings. but i also had faux dates with her where we would see a romantic movie, or just drink tea and talk, and it would feel like i was walking on clouds around her. it took me about a year, maybe a year and a half to work up the courage to be direct and tell her how i felt. needless to say i had waited wayy too long for spontaneity to work in my advantage and she said that she views me as a friend rather than romantically. not much longer after i felt (or realised) i didn't have much in common with her and was no longer attracted to her in a relationship kind of way. she has since moved interstate.

the second time was with a girl (lets call her carrie) who is part of a little group which has been kind of merging with the group i hang out with, slowly over time. from the first time i saw her i felt a strong connection and at that point i would say i had a crush on her. i would make eye contact with her and had that sense of knowing when theres an attraction there. we had never shared a single word for many weeks of her being at the same art shows/gigs i was at, one time we had a sentence worth of exchange, which made me like her even more. fast forward to a few weeks ago and she was at a friends birthday party, somehow i was in a small circle of conversation (me not talking much), and slowly people drifted away to go to the toilet or whatever, and it was just me and her standing there. we started talking and i felt a significant sense of ease around her which is absurdly uncommon in my life. i could look into her eyes and get lost in them, the rest of the world was melting away and ceasing to exist and there was a bubble encasing us in a shared bond. her voice sounded like honey and we found out that we have many similar interests (meditation/yoga/psychology/spirituality in general), i almost never find people my age who are interested in the things i like.

well, today i found out that she is quite possibly dating the same friend (harry) who's girlfriend (jess) i fell in love with.. life is strange sometimes. i am not reacting very strongly to this news, and i feel like if i had made a move when the iron was hot or w/e, things wouldn't have fallen into this place. i'm not attached to having things turn out in a certain way for me, to me love does not grasp, it just loves. ive felt a greater degree of clarity and insight in the past few days and i have the confidence to ask her if she would want to hang out and talk sometime. the thing is, i don't know how seriously my friend feels attached to carrie, i don't want to be hated. on the other hand i want to get this off my chest, but not for my selfish personal interest, i felt a connection that for me is very rare and would like to see if it was my own infatuation or a shared transcendent moment.

at this point if it is true they are in a relationship, it would be easy (i think?) for me to simply drop my attention for carrie. i identify as the sufferer or as the depressed lone wolf who is cursed in love, so it is not difficult to play the masochist or ascetic.
or i can see if a good moment arises where i can see if carrie wants to meet up sometime just so that we can talk as friends. if she is hesitant at that point i can just point out that i have no expectations for anything that would happen in the future.

congrats if you made it this far into my analytical late night mind. thoughts? or similar experiences? resonance?

 

[One Thousand Words]

He who hesitates masturbates. Better luck next time

 

[Mysterie]

i think you are probably right. i get lost in my head and fantasy land very easily. thanks

 

[Clitnhawk]

Been there, done that, didn't bother buying the shirt.

There are some general rules when it comes to dating/romance. Its not an exact science and what works for one person, may not work for others - personality, looks, income and talent come into play.
An important note: If you or she are religious (ie: no sex before marriage / duggers type) then the info below doesn't apply. IMHO, No sex before marriage = bad. Your call.

Okay, in my 20's I did far more thinking and fantasy about girls, what they wanted, how they want their men, etc. Its sweet that you think so highly of these women whom you don't have a real relationship with. This is where you'll see guys planning weddings before the first kiss, and even telling the women "I love you" on the first date and not know shit about them... a great way to make someone run away. Being shy sucks, it requires some work to get past it. Read some books on it, go to clubs and people watch, notice how men and women interact. You cannot lose what you never had.

Okay, rules to remember (and there are exceptions)
1 - Waiting for that perfect moment to ask a girl out for a date or tell her your romantic intentions = you lose.
2 - While you're doing that, she is dating guys who will wine and dine her. It depends on what the woman wants. You can date a woman for a month, and when you drop her off at home at 10pm on a saturday after the 3rd date - she's likely to walk out the door before 11 to meet with a guy for drinks and sex. So it depends on what she wants with who. I'll fuck Mr.Dick-A while I date a new guy every month or so until I find a guy I really really like.

3 - You should be having sex by your 3rd date. If not, there is no sexual energy. You've blown the deal and you're quickly being put in the friend-zone. When you are put in the "lets be friends", you need to NOT waste your time with her. Say "I don't have time for you as a friend. Thanks for the fun, sorry it didn't work out. bye bye"- whatever.

4 - When a woman has agreed to date you and you are both having the date. That means she's already considered you for sex, yep. She's willing to fuck you... but the date(s) are about closing the deal. Does she do something that turns you off? Are you saying or doing something stupid that counts against you? Lets say you have about 100 points (% chance) to have sex on that date or the next when you both first meet. You dress like an idiot and you're down to 75%. Say something rude, lose another 10%, etc. At the end of the date, are you above her threshold? Of course, you can also increase your chances as well.

5 - Consider each date, a lesson. Learn from your mistakes... even when the date goes horribly bad.

6 - Date a lot of women, date often. Share stories, make new ones up from experience. Your interests are not uncommon, they are healthy and are good points on you. Even if the woman isn't into YOGA, talk to her about it... not too long.

7 - Take your date to 2~3 venues on that same night. ie: Dinner, then a cozy bar for 1 drink and talk then go to a club or dance club.

8 - learn to dance. Its a good selling point. The better you are, the more women will like you. Dancing also increases your likely hood of being better in bed too.

9 - when applicable, touch her hand. Holding and touching someone's hand and arm is sensual.

10 - If YOU really do feel comfortable with that woman on your date, then be comfortable. Don't wait till the end of the 3rd date go in for a kiss. If that is the case, then not much likely of a successful mission.

11 - As guys, we think about SEX more than Love. For women, its generally the opposite. And until there is sex along with romance - you don't know where you really stand with each other.

12 - Having sex with a woman on a first date doesn't make her a slut (after all, you have the erection) - and ladies, having sex with a guy after the first date or two doesn't make you A SLUT. What it does, is get the guy to stop thinking with his dick faster and think more about you. Yeah, on that first date, a guy is thinking "I like her, I want to fuck... make sure I don't mess up and not get laid". Once he knows that sex has happened and likely to happen, you can spend time knowing more about each other.

13 - You should tell by the eyes that there is sexual energy, and those eyes can tell you "yes, kiss me" - also is she playing with her hair, is she facing you when she's talking to you? Are you both having a good time? Is she cool with you touching her hand or getting close while dancing. Dancing is good for getting that hand-holding time. Note: I'll dance by myself or with a woman... you should be able to dance alone, especially when you're teaching yourself.

Also ladies, if the guy is a "player" and was only interested in scoring a fuck. Well, you've just weeded him out faster and hopefully you got an orgasm out of it.

14 - After the club, go to your home or hers... or suggest a hotel if its too far (and you're intoxicated). DO not stop to eat at Denny's or other late night restaurant. It'll suck the romance right out. Its fine to go to those places once you're both in a relationship or with friends.

15 - The girl you meet and such doesn't and shouldn't be a mirror of yourself. Part of romance is teaching each other new things, share new experiences. Since I meet my wife, I am willing to try new types of foods that I would never have done in 40 years.

16 - You really should feel real attraction early or mid way through the date and should have an opening for a kiss... *IF THE FEELING IS REAL - KISSING IS EASY* Lets say the date starts at 7 on a friday night and you plan to leave a club at 12:00. Hopefully you both would have kissed before 10. It will make the rest of the date more fun, more relaxed. You've shown the date that YOU are interested.

17 - being spontaneous is a big seller. Its not always easy, but you may have to condition yourself for situations. This is where hitting various clubs/bars (especially in college towns) comes in handy.

18 - DON'T get too drunk. To get a DWI, don't get into a situation that causes injury or death. The date should be fun... not barfing and having blackouts.

I used to be shy... I didn't like going out to public, much less dance. In my 30s I started dating. The first ones where the worst ones. After a heartbreak around age 36, I spent about 4 years just having sex and parties. I had no desire for a girlfriend. At about 39 I was getting sick of it. And while I would still go out and have meaningless sex, I was open to actual dating... and did so. And when I over-thought my actions, or took it really slow - like NO sex... the results were the same. sexual energy faded away as I took it slow. So with a few women, I dated them 3~7 times and at most - got a few kisses. I really tried to be a "NICE GUY" and got nothing.

Even at 40, I was dating girls at young as 19 a few times, but the hassle isn't worth it - so usually 21+ ~ 40. When I got my heart broken at age 36, an 18y cutie had eyes for me - and I did want to fuck her. But I was to upset and she looked like the woman who broke my heart. 4 years later, she told me she was into me and would have dated me if I asked - as we've been friends since I meet her.

So one night, I decided to go out for some drinks, maybe get laid and wake up and go the work the next day. But I saw this 25yr old girl near the bar I was walking towards, a minute after I walked in the door. She said "hi" and smiled. I bought her a drink. We talked, we laughed, we danced. She said something enduring and cute to me, that made my heart swell and almost had tears in my eyes - that I gave her a passionate kiss. She kissed back. Later she told me she was shocked, but was so turned on. I think we kissed for about 20 minutes on and off, dance and talked some more. Made love that night. We confessed our love for each other within a week and ended up being married in 2 months. The love the memory of the first time I caller her "my wife".

Second guessing myself would not have resulted in that first kiss, having sex, my proposal wasn't a debate. When the thought entered my mind, I just "did it". We both don't party hard anymore, but we do go out dancing once a month, if not more.

You'll get there someday, but that is up to you to try.

 

[Mysterie]

clit!! holy shit!

thats one of the best replys i remember ever getting in a thread ive made

i need to print this out and read it before i go out to shows.

i have been pretty frigid but i dont at all buy the no sex before marriage paradigm, although i have had a belief that i need a deep emotional connection in order to be attracted to a woman enough to have sex. but thats BS tbh, i am attracted to most womens eyes in seconds, when they are open to a okay extent.

lots of your points have given me a lot to think about..

thanks for taking the time to give a considered response, this is changing the way i have viewed relationships for a long time. it sounds like we have followed similar paths as well in some respect

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Been there, done that, didn't bother buying the shirt.

There are some general rules when it comes to dating/romance. Its not an exact science and what works for one person, may not work for others - personality, looks, income and talent come into play.
An important note: If you or she are religious (ie: no sex before marriage / duggers type) then the info below doesn't apply. IMHO, No sex before marriage = bad. Your call.

Okay, in my 20's I did far more thinking and fantasy about girls, what they wanted, how they want their men, etc. Its sweet that you think so highly of these women whom you don't have a real relationship with. This is where you'll see guys planning weddings before the first kiss, and even telling the women "I love you" on the first date and not know shit about them... a great way to make someone run away. Being shy sucks, it requires some work to get past it. Read some books on it, go to clubs and people watch, notice how men and women interact. You cannot lose what you never had.

Okay, rules to remember (and there are exceptions)
1 - Waiting for that perfect moment to ask a girl out for a date or tell her your romantic intentions = you lose.
2 - While you're doing that, she is dating guys who will wine and dine her. It depends on what the woman wants. You can date a woman for a month, and when you drop her off at home at 10pm on a saturday after the 3rd date - she's likely to walk out the door before 11 to meet with a guy for drinks and sex. So it depends on what she wants with who. I'll fuck Mr.Dick-A while I date a new guy every month or so until I find a guy I really really like.

3 - You should be having sex by your 3rd date. If not, there is no sexual energy. You've blown the deal and you're quickly being put in the friend-zone. When you are put in the "lets be friends", you need to NOT waste your time with her. Say "I don't have time for you as a friend. Thanks for the fun, sorry it didn't work out. bye bye"- whatever.

4 - When a woman has agreed to date you and you are both having the date. That means she's already considered you for sex, yep. She's willing to fuck you... but the date(s) are about closing the deal. Does she do something that turns you off? Are you saying or doing something stupid that counts against you? Lets say you have about 100 points (% chance) to have sex on that date or the next when you both first meet. You dress like an idiot and you're down to 75%. Say something rude, lose another 10%, etc. At the end of the date, are you above her threshold? Of course, you can also increase your chances as well.

5 - Consider each date, a lesson. Learn from your mistakes... even when the date goes horribly bad.

6 - Date a lot of women, date often. Share stories, make new ones up from experience. Your interests are not uncommon, they are healthy and are good points on you. Even if the woman isn't into YOGA, talk to her about it... not too long.

7 - Take your date to 2~3 venues on that same night. ie: Dinner, then a cozy bar for 1 drink and talk then go to a club or dance club.

8 - learn to dance. Its a good selling point. The better you are, the more women will like you. Dancing also increases your likely hood of being better in bed too.

9 - when applicable, touch her hand. Holding and touching someone's hand and arm is sensual.

10 - If YOU really do feel comfortable with that woman on your date, then be comfortable. Don't wait till the end of the 3rd date go in for a kiss. If that is the case, then not much likely of a successful mission.

11 - As guys, we think about SEX more than Love. For women, its generally the opposite. And until there is sex along with romance - you don't know where you really stand with each other.

12 - Having sex with a woman on a first date doesn't make her a slut (after all, you have the erection) - and ladies, having sex with a guy after the first date or two doesn't make you A SLUT. What it does, is get the guy to stop thinking with his dick faster and think more about you. Yeah, on that first date, a guy is thinking "I like her, I want to fuck... make sure I don't mess up and not get laid". Once he knows that sex has happened and likely to happen, you can spend time knowing more about each other.

13 - You should tell by the eyes that there is sexual energy, and those eyes can tell you "yes, kiss me" - also is she playing with her hair, is she facing you when she's talking to you? Are you both having a good time? Is she cool with you touching her hand or getting close while dancing. Dancing is good for getting that hand-holding time. Note: I'll dance by myself or with a woman... you should be able to dance alone, especially when you're teaching yourself.

Also ladies, if the guy is a "player" and was only interested in scoring a fuck. Well, you've just weeded him out faster and hopefully you got an orgasm out of it.

14 - After the club, go to your home or hers... or suggest a hotel if its too far (and you're intoxicated). DO not stop to eat at Denny's or other late night restaurant. It'll suck the romance right out. Its fine to go to those places once you're both in a relationship or with friends.

15 - The girl you meet and such doesn't and shouldn't be a mirror of yourself. Part of romance is teaching each other new things, share new experiences. Since I meet my wife, I am willing to try new types of foods that I would never have done in 40 years.

16 - You really should feel real attraction early or mid way through the date and should have an opening for a kiss... *IF THE FEELING IS REAL - KISSING IS EASY* Lets say the date starts at 7 on a friday night and you plan to leave a club at 12:00. Hopefully you both would have kissed before 10. It will make the rest of the date more fun, more relaxed. You've shown the date that YOU are interested.

17 - being spontaneous is a big seller. Its not always easy, but you may have to condition yourself for situations. This is where hitting various clubs/bars (especially in college towns) comes in handy.

18 - DON'T get too drunk. To get a DWI, don't get into a situation that causes injury or death. The date should be fun... not barfing and having blackouts.

I used to be shy... I didn't like going out to public, much less dance. In my 30s I started dating. The first ones where the worst ones. After a heartbreak around age 36, I spent about 4 years just having sex and parties. I had no desire for a girlfriend. At about 39 I was getting sick of it. And while I would still go out and have meaningless sex, I was open to actual dating... and did so. And when I over-thought my actions, or took it really slow - like NO sex... the results were the same. sexual energy faded away as I took it slow. So with a few women, I dated them 3~7 times and at most - got a few kisses. I really tried to be a "NICE GUY" and got nothing.

Even at 40, I was dating girls at young as 19 a few times, but the hassle isn't worth it - so usually 21+ ~ 40. When I got my heart broken at age 36, an 18y cutie had eyes for me - and I did want to fuck her. But I was to upset and she looked like the woman who broke my heart. 4 years later, she told me she was into me and would have dated me if I asked - as we've been friends since I meet her.

So one night, I decided to go out for some drinks, maybe get laid and wake up and go the work the next day. But I saw this 25yr old girl near the bar I was walking towards, a minute after I walked in the door. She said "hi" and smiled. I bought her a drink. We talked, we laughed, we danced. She said something enduring and cute to me, that made my heart swell and almost had tears in my eyes - that I gave her a passionate kiss. She kissed back. Later she told me she was shocked, but was so turned on. I think we kissed for about 20 minutes on and off, dance and talked some more. Made love that night. We confessed our love for each other within a week and ended up being married in 2 months. The love the memory of the first time I caller her "my wife".

Second guessing myself would not have resulted in that first kiss, having sex, my proposal wasn't a debate. When the thought entered my mind, I just "did it". We both don't party hard anymore, but we do go out dancing once a month, if not more.

You'll get there someday, but that is up to you to try.

That sounds like good advice. Heterosexual male friends of mine once told me how they do not have sex with a woman they are dating until the 10th date, what's up with that? Not all my heterosexual friends are like this but I know a few who are.

Mysterie, good luck finding women to date or have a relationship with.

 

[Clitnhawk]

@Priests: Those who have sex on the 10th date... how are their relationships? I mean, imagine friend A - he dates 10 women a year. Some last 4~6 dates (no sex) and maybe two of them make it to 10... but none of them become serious long term relationship. Friend-B, dates 20 women a year, avg 2~5 dates. Maybe some FWB or ONS thrown in. He's not desperate. He has more experience. Either way, each their own

Some of what I have learned is from the old radio show "Tom Leykis" starting in 2000. You can listen to his show at: https://blowmeuptom.com - now I don't agree with everything he says, but a lot of what he says - is reality. If I followed all of his rules, I wouldn't be married with children

i need to print this out and read it before i go out to shows.

i have been pretty frigid but i dont at all buy the no sex before marriage paradigm, although i have had a belief that i need a deep emotional connection in order to be attracted to a woman enough to have sex. but thats BS tbh, i am attracted to most womens

Take a snap shot But just date more, ask women you don't care about to go on a date, even tell them you're shy and nervous if you want. And listen to some old Tom Leykis shows. (link above)

Do you have a deep emotional connection with your hand before you masturbate? Just get used to MEETING all kinds of women... you're not going to know much about a woman at first anyway - have sex, talk after sex... learn things. Learn personality, what they like, etc. My wife is not my "fantasy dream girl", then again - most women are NOT your fantasy. Fantasy : She's 21, with maturity of a 30 year old, submissive, maybe Japanese, perfect body before and after having your 2.5 kids, can cook, never gets into a fight or disagreement with you, will perform every sex act you ever wanted including Vag to ass to mouth, born rich, likes video games, perfect mom with great hair, ready to fuck you anywhere anytime, her parents love you, she has a hot younger sister who will do a 3 some with you. Her tits won't sag, no stretch marks, even when she's 50 - she'll look like a 30 year old with perky tits, etc... Very rarely does that happen or possible.

So you should do as I will tell anyone: date a lot of people. Its easy to fall head over heals with the first 2~3 women you insert your penis into... and when the excitements ends, you realize she's a crazy bitch who only fucks you once a month or two.

(PS: Lucky for me, my 30yr old wife has the body of a 102lb 17yr old, no stretch marks after baby, plays video games, loves sex... The rest, I didn't get. Really could use the money)

Seriously, ask women out for a dance or drink - with no goals of sex (maybe - just a one nighter) and no relationship. Even when drunk at clubs - I've made it clear on what I want. Casual sex, no games, no drama. You don't have the pressure of trying to make sure EACH girl you talk to or date to be, "THE ONE". You won't know until it happens.

 

[malakaix]

Clitnhawk nailed it.

I went through a heartbreak at 23 that sort of woke me up to the reality of the game, up until this point i acted in similar ways as you described in your original post.. i believe there's a couple of moments throughout everyone's life that is so significant and fundamental to self-growth that it has a cathartic impact that forever alters your perspective; that heartbreak to me was one of those moments.. it was the climatic outcome of a certain way of thinking that had run it's course and needed to change, personal change rarely comes without extreme pain.

After that experience, i basically did what Clitnhawk did and slept around like mad for a couple of years.. this gave me tremendous insight into the nature of attraction and human psychology. It brought my views of women down to a realistic level, and allowed me to keep a level of discernment and not become swept up in the emotion of it all.. infatuation can be intoxicating but it can also be the fastest way to drive away a potentially interested girl.

Hah, Tom Leykis.. yeah he speaks a lot of hard truths, i would of disagreed strongly with a lot of what he said prior to been intimate with a lot of different women. There's a lot of dots that begin to connect up once you crack through the fantasy conjecture of your own mind through more experience.

 

[-=SS=-]

Depends on what type of woman you're after. I personally would never set foot in a club.. the people who inhabit those places.. they're like hellish cattle markets for the dregs of society. Much prefer a pub or some other event. This makes the kind of woman I want to meet harder to find, but they're so much better!

You can be the nice guy if that's who you really are, but if you don't verbally or physically escalate then nothing will happen. If you can be the gentleman who is also emotionally and sexually confident in himself then you're gold. All that needs to be done is for you to build a moment between you and the person.. and your gut/intuition will let you know when there is a window of opportunity/magic moment.. even the most dense person can still pick these up.. but they fail to act on it because they tend to over-analyze and plan the next step, which takes you out of the moment.

When you get one of those moments, escalate. It is the most natural thing in the world, everyone knows how to do it.. everyone used to play as a child, that spontaneous state without fear.. don't ask her permission, just give a light touch (obviously depends on whether you're sitting, standing or what) and give her a complement. You'll either get a receptive answer/response, or she'll let you know she's not interested. One thing I learned from foreign women about British guys is we are not forward enough.. "if only they would just go for it!". All said the same thing. Sometimes you will get rejected.. no one wins them all. Don't take it personally. Women love confidence, it shouldn't need explaining why. You don't need to be a jerk or one of these suave pick up people though.. again the gentleman, the man with actual depth to his character, who is also emotionally and sexually confident, is gold. You obviously have one half (IMO the more difficult to acquire).. the other can be developed quickly.

The last girl I tried it with wasn't very good with flirting herself, I really could not gauge where she was. In the end I was just like for fucks sake.. sat her down, told her what I thought, brushed the hair away from her neck and kissed her there. Her brain melted at that moment lol. This was a friend too, who I had known for awhile. She knew me as the chill nice guy/gentlemen and was like "You shouldn't be able to do this, you're in my friend box!". Took her completely by surprise, and she loved it.


I get what you mean about the emotional connection. I'm like that too. But the longer you wait the less likely she's likely to see you in a romantic or sexual way.. unless you can whip out the moves and catch her by surprise. You can learn a lot about her, and yourself, through sex.. and especially post-sex talk. You're both very open in that state. I think your first issue is confronting your "projection" upon these people. I'm sure they are nice but even princesses shit every day. The more you project angels upon women the harder you make it for yourself. Most women are not deserving of that status.. can you think of many guys who are either? We are animals, not deities.

Not to crap on Clitnhawk's response, there's some nice perspective in there, but the irony of his post is what typifies most males.. thinking analytically, in lists, strategies, what to do etc, which you have got to set aside. Magic (intuitive thinking, reading non-verbal etc) does not work that way. Just listen to your body and your intuitive voice.. it's one of your greatest allies in this who thing

 

[Clitnhawk]

Depends on what type of woman you're after. I personally would never set foot in a club.. the people who inhabit those places.. they're like hellish cattle markets for the dregs of society. Much prefer a pub or some other event. This makes the kind of woman I want to meet harder to find, but they're so much better!

Uh, not sure what you consider a club vs a bar over on the other side of the pond. Most bars in the USA are just noisy places - maybe good light, maybe a dive (dark places) - drinking, sports on every TV and playing billiards. A club, may include the billiard table, has bars to get drinks, tables and includes a dance floor or two + better lighting and sound system. So you can get drunk at either place.

Now, if you notice my post, #7 : I said Dinner, then a cozy bar for a drink or two, then a dance club - which pumps up the energy.

So not sure why you make a big deal of dancing. Just because you don't. Each their own. Even in bars, you have the barflies.... women sitting, waiting for guys to pick them up.

Not to crap on Clitnhawk's response, there's some nice perspective in there, but the irony of his post is what typifies most males.. thinking analytically, in lists, strategies, what to do etc, which you have got to set aside. Magic (intuitive thinking, reading non-verbal etc) does not work that way. Just listen to your body and your intuitive voice.. it's one of your greatest allies in this who thing

No sir, you totally shit all over my response. Typical British snobbery, always taking things, trying to take our country, thinking you envented the english language, taxes, tea and bad teeth. There are reasons why Australia is the cool country and yours is all grey and boring. If it was up to Texas, we'd bomb your asses!


Anyway, just fucking with you!
I think you are ADDING to the discussion, you have many good points. (Your view on clubs is an opinion)... yes, we are animals.
My post is rather long for a forum and so I go with bullet points and basics for dating. I'm not writing a book, that is up to people to buy. So yeah, its short. In reality, it takes many many hours, days, trial and errors to learn to be good at dating - and that doesn't mean 100% success. I believe, being honest. If you want to get laid - say so, and you'll spend less time wasting each others time. non-verbal communications **IS IMPORTANT** the look in her eyes can tell you if its good to go for a kiss. I didn't ask permission to kiss my future wife the first time. The look in her eyes, told me she was open to approval. A nod, a wink, a slightly closing of the eyes, a twinkle, etc can tell you things. Magic or god doesn't make shit happen, its up to you. My number list is to make it easy for reference. It doesn't go in any particular order.

You can date 3 different women on 3 consecutive weekends and have 3 different results. That is what led up to my wife. #1 - had lots of fun, young - party type. Had some sex. Still friends with. #2 - unplanned situation, but she really wanted me to fuck her. She was the wrong kind of crazy for me and was not good in bed - even tho she looked hot and dressed very well. #3 - energy and attraction just kept going and going, great sex and compatible outlook on life and opinions.

I would like to add:

#19 - All women are CRAZY! Every single one of them. Just got to find one that is your kind of crazy. Some of the most crazy ones are wild in bed - but do not make good girlfriends.

 

[pofacedhoe]

He who hesitates masturbates. Better luck next time

loool.

best phrase in a while

^pubs are more intimate uk thang, i would use bar in uk when referring to shitty large oversized chain pubs. if the place aint like a large house its not a pub (public house)