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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Misc Experiences with Serotonin Syndrome/Toxicity

dopamimetic

dopamimetic

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Mar 21, 2013
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I'm curious about how rare or common this phenomenon really is. Interested in any first hand reports of stronger adverse effects from combining substances that affect serotonin, like SSRI antidepressants, dextromethorphan, MDMA, the APBs, tramadol etc.

Thank you guys!
 
Never experienced it myself and I have pushed the limits in this regard. You'd think I'd have experienced it twice over given the huge doses of serotonergic compounds i have taken simultaneously (tramadol and MDMA, and much more etc.).

I once experienced a delusion of it when i wound up taking 350mg of 4-aco-dmt. My blood pressure was off the charts, 210/180 or something to that effect. I may have been a bit hypersensitive, but not in a hypertensive crisis. Nonetheless I thought i might have been experiencing hypertensive crisis but i couldn't think straight with that much 4-aco-dmt. That's like consuming a pound of mushrooms, and I am not highly accustomed to or experienced with psychedelics. I was hospitalized but i was fine.

Curious myself about those who experienced documented occurences...
 
I started getting it when I got put on Sertraline and I was doing coke every weekend and sometimes in the week too

It was the 2nd antidepressants I'd tried, but the first one I'd gone on then started doing coke, the doctor put me on 50mg and I started taking them everyday, I was getting side effects but thought it was normal, just a new med but they got worse, I was getting bad insomnia and if I did fall to sleep I'd get night terrors and felt horrible, like I'd drank 10 coffees and worse anxiety, I was snappy and irritable too, this went on for a couple of weeks,

I went back to the doctors and she up'd the Sertraline to 100mg lol

I then thought I'd bleach my hair and it needed about 6 goes to get it light enough to dye lilac, I then had a birthday coming up and changed my surname by deedpole lol, I had this name on Facebook (back when I had that heap of shit) for a couple of years anyway and I don't regret that I love my new name but it wasn't normal behaviour for me

I then had even worse anxiety and a tremmer I started to stutter and couldn't get my words out, I've never stuttered in my life, I felt like I'd drank even more coffee and had this weird thing I'd do where I was fidgiting sat down like my legs and arms wanted to move, I can't remember what else symptoms I had as this was 5 years aho

So I go to a different doctor who didn't know what was up so said to see how it goes

I then get a call that evening off my doctor telling me to stop the meds I've got the start of serotonin syndrome
 
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Wow, sertraline - this stuff was useless as fuck for me, it did nothing at all for depression and anxiety, did not cause any withdrawal and maybe potentiated dysphoria and acoustic hallucinations from morphine. Crazy how different people react to these 'standardized' agents.

I got similar hypomania and insomnia from paroxetine 20mg/d at the age of 17. It was overall anxiolytic but still a heavy load of stress and after 7 or 8 days I became sleep deprived including weird paresteshia as like trees were falling down onto me.
And initial hypomania from venlafaxine, read much later that this sort of effect should be seen as a warning sign for not to use the agent any further, and I wonder if this caused sort of permatolerance especially regarding the young age.
 
I've heard about such cases and seen my share of weird individuals, have the bitter after taste of the unsolvable question whether I fucked myself up too (think I can roughly estimate my cognition, but here I worry much less than about social aka emotional intelligence). The conclusion is completely dependent on my levels of certain transmitters.

But of course, some individual fates are deeply touching and lead to prolonged thinking. How much ir/reversible damage is done? How much did docs fuck the situation up? How much could heal, be healed or re-develop e.g. by psycholytic therapy settings and the massive increase in growth factors etc?

I have very limited experience here, yet some very remarkable things happened. For example do I suffer heavily from protracted SSRI withdrawal. Any SSRI, sometimes even just one or a few doses are enough, will trigger multiple days to weeks of brain zaps and dysphoria.
Once I've done much deschloroketamine and forgot to take both the venlafaxine and the morphine I was hooked on back then. Had an intense dream about high voltage power flashing down from a broken line and me standing underneath. The dream continued about electricity and flying over wide endless landscapes, and the end was something like that the wires were successfully laid into the ground and sun shine over untouched nature. I had no withdrawal symptoms at all for at least a week but unfortunately my usual below baseline state of anhedonic depression took over and I relapsed.

Could psychedelics not only cause psychosis and 'flipping' but perhaps also offer a way out of these things? Will become complex if cognition is impacted so much that there is no insight or will to change, sth which I seem to have an overabundance of.

How ir/reversible is drain bamage really? Not too long ago it was commonly believed that the adult brain doesn't develop new synapses (correct me if I use wrong terminology) and this was proven wrong. Over an average of seven years, not a single cell remains unreplaced. The biological self healing skills at cell level are just astonishing. E.g. a ketamine hole literally destroys your retina but you suffer no damage because it's instantly replaced. These mechanisms are necessary for survival as meat sacks. But there are intentional appearing limitations, they are necessary to sort out cancer cells but it's not the whole deal. Plants do not have these limitations but guess the most impressing example are axolotls which can regrow whole limbs. And they don't suffer from epidemic cancer either.
We have a deep sea sponge which doesnt die of age and lives for centuries. So - intentional limits and such ones will have a switch to turn them off, it just might be a wickedly complex puzzle to find the right combination.

Now we have epigenetics and shamans who from time to time heal things and people nobody would ever have thought possible.
Could psychedelics open sort of a biological debug mode after all that just waits patiently for us to finally use it?
 
Before the ban on MTA/ MethylThioAmphetamine, a legal high. Some of the hardcore user's would be on that, and MDMA.

That should have caused some cases.
 
PrincessDiz said:
That’s hospitalisation level blood pressure. That’s go straight to the ER don’t pass go blood pressure.
Click to expand...

It absolutely is but it wasn't necessary in this case. I am not aware of any 4-aco-dmt only fatalities.

It was a strange feeling. I had this overwhelming sense that I was dying. I figured if I were to survive I may never view the world in the same fashion after going that far out. I assumed i would require weeks of inpatient psychiatric care. After 6 hours i was fine. I should have never gone to the hospital frankly, they didn't anything anyhow.

All I could think of was that I must be dying of serotonin syndrome, which I would in a sober state know is impossible from just 4-aco-dmt.
 
negrogesic said:
It absolutely is but it wasn't necessary in this case. I am not aware of any 4-aco-dmt only fatalities.

It was a strange feeling. I had this overwhelming sense that I was dying. I figured if I were to survive I may never view the world in the same fashion after going that far out. I assumed i would require weeks of inpatient psychiatric care. After 6 hours i was fine. I should have never gone to the hospital frankly, they didn't anything anyhow.

All I could think of was that I must be dying of serotonin syndrome, which I would in a sober state know is impossible from just 4-aco-dmt.
Click to expand...
That blood pressure is life threatening! You got lucky, end of. Don’t ever ignore a bp reading like that again because the chance you’ll have a heart attack or a stroke is at the absolute highest.
 
PrincessDiz said:
That blood pressure is life threatening! You got lucky, end of. Don’t ever ignore a bp reading like that again because the chance you’ll have a heart attack or a stroke is at the absolute highest.
Click to expand...

I agree and anyone with that sort of blood pressure should seek emergency care asap.

I feel like it was to some degree white coat hypertension, and they did not seemed at all alarmed by the blood pressure reading interestingly.
 
About 4-MTA, also known as flatliner's, and Serotonin Syndrom. Remember what I wrote about the hardcore user's combining them with MDMA. These people were mostly unresponsive and floored. As if they took a mega dose of MDMA. Catatonic is the term used for this I believe. Wonder how many got SS due to the combo?

"4-MTA is a stimulant and strong serotonin releaser, similar to paramethoxyamphetamine but more dangerous, as it can cause pronounced hyperthermia which can result in organ failure and death. The subjective effects of 4-MTA are primarily a long-lasting stimulant, with little postivite euphoria, in contrast to e.g. MDMA. 4MTA is also a MAO-A inhibitor, which may explain its tendency to cause death, as MAOI drugs are not generally considered safe to use with stimulants or serotonin releasers, and 4-MTA fits into all three categories."

from: https://www.chemeurope.com/en/encyclopedia/4-MTA.html
 
Escitalopram and buspirone long term, forced cold turkey withdrawal due to meds lost in the mail, severe withdrawal symptoms included auditory hallucinations, dilated pupils, fainting spells, irritability, blood pressure up and down. Patient is also on Seroquel, oxycontin, 4400mg Gabapentin daily. Trying to ease the withdrawal, he smoked some glass. Finally able to reacquire the buspirone and escitalopram he tries to wean back on the SSRIs while still smoking the glass. Over 3 days, w/d symptoms come and go. Tonight he has a seizure.
I noticed the withdrawal symptoms of escitalopram overlap with serotonin syndrome, he likely has that. I'm watching him all night now, I've given 1mg clonazepam (via treatment articles) and insisted no more meds or meth. Fluids, rest, moving slowly.
Research says if uncontrollable coughing and vomiting start, he'll likely die.
 
I had a hellacious experience with MDMA + PMA(sold as MDMA) in late 2000. The white igloos were MDMA, the white Mitsubishis were PMA. I was hyperthermic, had severe nausea, had terrifying muscle spasms, brain zaps, and bad nausea. I can't say if it was actually serotonin syndrome, but I had all the common symptoms.

I never sought medical attention. A cool bath and generous quantities of diazepam saved my ass. I was young, stupid, and completely ignorant to the dangers of cut/misrepresented drugs sold as MDMA and serotonin syndrome.

My group and I didn't know about the composition of the pills until over a week later when someone else that took one of the same white Mitsubishi pills ended up in the ER. She was tested for MDMA and the test came back negative, but metabolites of PMA were found in her system. I started learning all I could about drugs due to that experience.
 
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