Ego death and depersonalisation

[neurotic]

The loss of the sense of self is featured both in Eastern philosophy, where it is portrayed as something to be achieved, and in depersonalisation and related conditions, where it causes suffering and is generally triggered by an adverse event. Are they the same loss of sense of self?

 

[Foreigner]

Depersonalization or loss of self is a feature to be expected on the path, in many Eastern traditions, but it's not the goal. It's an identity crisis that arises when the various ego layers are challenged and the relationship to true self must be re-evaluated. They espouse that there is a subtle-level self occurring that is underneath all the personality and ego layers that developed since birth. This "real self" is not in the beyond or 'over there' somewhere, it's always present, in every moment. It's who's doing the typing here, who's doing the reading. It's very basic. It's right here, right now. Your real, human level self is right there with you in every moment, you don’t have to go looking for it. In Daoism they call it the De, or Virtue, or your True Nature. Almost immediately after birth the conditioning begins and ego defenses develop, and after this it becomes harder and harder to find the De. But there is a structure-like presence that always permeates the ego and body and mind, and this presence is palpable, and human.

Hardly anyone ever finds their way home to this shining presence, but for me, this is the secret to human level happiness and peace. In a nutshell what I'm saying is that when the Absolute resonance takes the form of a human, a resonating "me" is created and this is the real self which our mind/bodies can experience and which allows for the body-based connection we all have lost and seek. But most of the time we don’t even notice it’s there due to the extraneous noise within ourselves.

I'm making it sound more esoteric than it actually is. A lot of spiritual seekers and drug users with a spiritual bent think that the objective is to obliterate the self. Following that path is what causes depersonalization in a useless way, because it divorces you from your own human experience. All you end up doing is forming a new, confused ego layer that is trying to be the Absolute but can't, which creates resistance to seeing the ever-presence De. The only way out of that is to return to the De, your true nature, who you really are and the true essence of your very human experience, which is unique to each person. You don't have to go anywhere to be at peace.

In other words, be who you are, nothing else is being demanded of you. "Self" is not what causes suffering. Attachment is what causes suffering, and the various ego layers which obscure the subtle self are all attachment based. Trauma can destroy the ego layers and awaken you to your true self, or it can create more ego layers which obscure the true self. It can go either way. The awakened version may or may not be permanent.

 

[vortech]

"The Dark Night of The Soul' is what I equate to the Western dilemma of depersonalization. You can read about the Eastern perspective of it here : http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/MCTB Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha. I know this because I recently went through this stage of my practice. I sought Western remedies, thinking there was something 'wrong' with me, but then after further insight and research realized a more balanced perspective, and that western medicine is not equipped to deal with my situation. This stage started around the time that MXE became unavailable worldwide. I realized that my work on dissociatives was equitable to the work done by Buddhists in their path to enlightenment. After much trial and tribulation I had a few trips on 3-Meo-PCP and was given everything I needed to know I have taken the next step. As it turns out, I can pinpoint exact moments in those 6 months that aligned with the 5 stages of The Dark Night of The Soul. Since then, I am fully aligned with the next step, or at least somewhere in between 'Re-observation' and 'Equanimity'.

 

[iridescentblack]

I think "grounding" is an important step, following "The Dark Night of The Soul". When I was gaining all these new perspectives, powers, and communicating with angels and light beings before my Dark Night of The Soul phase I was also pretty freakin' crazy. 'Believed I was half-clockwork and whatnot. I've found, connecting with the Earth Star (one of the 13 chakras from the 12 chakra system http://www.ask-angels.com/spiritual-guidance/12-chakras/ ), I've been able to restore some of my core self while integrating my higher self at the same time - not to mention I'm much more sane now.
Your higher self will take you through various stages, struggles and paths through your life experience. It's important that your core self is there to witness, experience and make it through some of these seemingly trivial adventures. Eliminating the lower self or the ego is what I thought to do along my journey. Not sure if it had any major consequences but I think it might have. Also, I found this video sometime after taking a look at this thread...
https://youtu.be/V6xCjY39_t0

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Double post sorry

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Depersonalization or loss of self is a feature to be expected on the path, in many Eastern traditions, but it's not the goal. It's an identity crisis that arises when the various ego layers are challenged and the relationship to true self must be re-evaluated. They espouse that there is a subtle-level self occurring that is underneath all the personality and ego layers that developed since birth. This "real self" is not in the beyond or 'over there' somewhere, it's always present, in every moment. It's who's doing the typing here, who's doing the reading. It's very basic. It's right here, right now. Your real, human level self is right there with you in every moment, you don’t have to go looking for it. In Daoism they call it the De, or Virtue, or your True Nature. Almost immediately after birth the conditioning begins and ego defenses develop, and after this it becomes harder and harder to find the De. But there is a structure-like presence that always permeates the ego and body and mind, and this presence is palpable, and human.

Hardly anyone ever finds their way home to this shining presence, but for me, this is the secret to human level happiness and peace. In a nutshell what I'm saying is that when the Absolute resonance takes the form of a human, a resonating "me" is created and this is the real self which our mind/bodies can experience and which allows for the body-based connection we all have lost and seek. But most of the time we don’t even notice it’s there due to the extraneous noise within ourselves.

I'm making it sound more esoteric than it actually is. A lot of spiritual seekers and drug users with a spiritual bent think that the objective is to obliterate the self. Following that path is what causes depersonalization in a useless way, because it divorces you from your own human experience. All you end up doing is forming a new, confused ego layer that is trying to be the Absolute but can't, which creates resistance to seeing the ever-presence De. The only way out of that is to return to the De, your true nature, who you really are and the true essence of your very human experience, which is unique to each person. You don't have to go anywhere to be at peace.

In other words, be who you are, nothing else is being demanded of you. "Self" is not what causes suffering. Attachment is what causes suffering, and the various ego layers which obscure the subtle self are all attachment based. Trauma can destroy the ego layers and awaken you to your true self, or it can create more ego layers which obscure the true self. It can go either way. The awakened version may or may not be permanent.

Pretty good response IMO. Thanks for sharing. I'm not concluding it's fully correct but I do like it.

 

[Nixiam]

Foreigner sums up a lot of stuff that resonates pretty well with me.