e-cigs and maoi

[4meSM]

You often hear smokers complain about how the ecigs don't cut it and a large % of them goes back to cigs or other tobacco products. Thats partly because the only active ingredient in ecigs is nicotine while tobacco contains other active ingredients that have a synergy with nicotine, harmaline been one of the principals.
So i've been thinking that maybe it would be possible to combine nicotine and harmaline in a e-liquid so they can be both delivered together and create a much more similar effect to smoked tobacco (to other methods of ingestion as well). Harmaline doesn't have a very high melting point and the normal dose isn't as high either so maybe it could work? Does someone has more information about this?

 

[Help?!?!]

I'm pretty sure there are "full spectrum" tobacco liquids out there. I always solve the problem by taking a couple puffs of actual tobacco then hitting the ecig. Obviously that won't work for most people though.

 

[4meSM]

Yes you could solve the problem with taking a couple hits of tobacco but that doesn't make much sense because you're still combusting. The idea is to eliminate the need for combustion by adding the imao that people crave with their nicotine directly into the e-liquid

 

[Abject]

You're never going to get the cigarette experience with smokeless tobacco. Ecigs will never "cut it"

There's more to smoking tobacco than "nicotine+maoi=what people like"

 

[DL-ark]

Maybe do an extraction on peganum harmala seeds and mix it with the stuff you put in e-cigs? I don't really know the technical process for what sort of fluid is used, but surely you should be able to do this.

 

[4meSM]

You're never going to get the cigarette experience with smokeless tobacco. Ecigs will never "cut it"

There's more to smoking tobacco than "nicotine+maoi=what people like"

I doesn't have to be the exact experience of smoking tobacco, just something that satisfy tobacco dependent people. Normal e-cigs already works for some people so this could be very good. Besides what else is into the experience of smoking tobacco? (not talking about the social thing). To my understanding just nicotine, flavour, imao and combustion products. So what about the people who chew for example?
I think this could work, does somebody has other opinions about it or has tried it?

 

[thikal]

You're never going to get the cigarette experience with smokeless tobacco. Ecigs will never "cut it"

Great argumentative post...

Maybe a e-cig fuelled by nicotine + IMAO eliquid will show on the user the same craving/addiction than smoked tobacco.

 

[VitamaN]

I just love good old fashioned lung destroying slow death inducing combustion . Spent 100 bones on a vape and gave it away. It just wasn't for me.

 

[4meSM]

I just love good old fashioned lung destroying slow death inducing combustion . Spent 100 bones on a vape and gave it away. It just wasn't for me.

Thats like the point of the thread. I don't think you would enjoy smoking real grass (not cannabis) or other non psychoactive plants, so its not the combustion that you love, its something that is in the tobacco but not in a nicotine e-liquid. I will make and try that imao-nicotine combination in the future, has anyone try it before?

 

[421]

You're never going to get the cigarette experience with smokeless tobacco. Ecigs will never "cut it"

Maybe so but there's still quite a lot of room for improvement. Even if they don't become a complete replacement for cigarettes they may evolve into a better nicotine delivery system than they are now. They do sell something called WTA (whole tobacco alkaloid) eliquid but I haven't tried it. It seems like a good idea but you're still stuck with inhaling PG/VG fumes and they are kind of disgusting. Real smoke tastes and feels much better, just isn't better for you (probably - who knows in the long run).

 

[dopamimetic]

You're never going to get the cigarette experience with smokeless tobacco. Ecigs will never "cut it"

There's more to smoking tobacco than "nicotine+maoi=what people like"

Why not? Reminds me of the people saying "no pharma grade chemical will ever kick like street heroin" ... of course, regarding the habit of tobacco smokers, one will miss something without combusting. But a full spectrum tobacco liquid should well substitute for cigarettes.

Actually the cancer (and to a lesser extent, the bad taste in your mouth and airways) is the primary reason for me not to smoke. Have thought about trying an e-cig and probably will some day, but the eventual availability of a mao inhibiting liquid would be appealing (and, given that it does not go through your digestive tract, the risk of hypertensive crisis / cheese effect is probably much lower than with the MAOI anti depressants.)

 

[endotropic]

I wouldn't be surprised if the combustion products themselves had some sort of psychoactive effect. Otherwise I can't explain why the high from vaporized weed is so much lighter than combusted weed, considering vaporized plant material should give off just as much if not more cannabinoid content.

So likewise I would expect the combustion products in tobacco smoke to alter/enhance the effects in some way.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

^That's an interesting thought

I also think that, considering that there are many inhalants as additives in tobacco products, that those combusted play a part in the effect.

 

[poneelovesyou]

I'm wondering if it would actually have anti-addictive affects, because harmaline is an MAO A inhibitor, which prevents degredation of serotonin and norepinephrine, among other things like Trace amino acids. But I'm wondering if the increase of activity from those 2 main neurotransmitters would actually mediate a disruption of an additive pathway by competing with the acetylcholine/dopamine activity from the nicotine (Since dopamine is still being degraded by MAO B). Who knows. Just curious.

 

[Dystopia35]

Vapeing has worked for me. I smoked ciggs for 16years. I started vapeing 6/months ago and have not had a smoke since. Actually when I smell ciggs the odor makes me feel sick almost.

 

[Bagseed]

I wouldn't be surprised if the combustion products themselves had some sort of psychoactive effect. Otherwise I can't explain why the high from vaporized weed is so much lighter than combusted weed, considering vaporized plant material should give off just as much if not more cannabinoid content.

So likewise I would expect the combustion products in tobacco smoke to alter/enhance the effects in some way.

I don't agree about vaporized cannabis being lighter than smoked... neither would many friends of mine.

 

[serotonin2A]

From a harm reduction standpoint, I would really advise you NOT to make this a regular thing. There are other alkaloids in Peganum besides harmaline and they are probably not something you should be ingesting multiple times per day over many years. Even for harmaline, it's not clear that it is safe to take it as frequently as people take nicotine. There is some evidence that certain beta-carbolines can produce neurotoxic effects, and while that doesn't seem to happen with harmaline when used acutely, no one has any idea what would happen if harmaline is used chronically. There are some beta-carbolines in cigarette smoke and that might indicate that chronic use is safe, but the level in tobacco smoke is probably much lower than the level you would be using in the e-cig.

 

[4meSM]

Ill check it out that but not necessarily, the idea is to use a similar proportion to kind of imitate the effects of tobacco smoking.
I dont think that vaped cannabis is lighter than smoked either, actually i find the opposite. Vaped cannabis is much stronger thats why you're able to get high with such small amounts compared to combustion, the only difference its the combustion products produce some kind of body high that people get used to. If you smoked a hookah without nicotine fast enough and without breathing to much you get the same lightheaded effect.

 

[serotonin2A]

Sorry I forgot to mention one thing. If you are looking to reproduce the effect of tobacco then you need a MAO-B inhibitor. MAO-B is the one that metabolizes dopamine and would produce an interaction with nicotine. Several MAO-B inhibitors (norharman, etc...) are present in tobacco and tobacco smoke.

Harmine and harmaline are selective MAO-A inhibitors and are not going to reproduce the effect of tobacco that you are looking for (at least not in their normal dose range).