Dissociatives Dxm sweetspot?!

[Bitchniggaz]

Ive recently fell in love with this molecule.
I first tried it in india around 2013 where i had some epic 3rd platue trips that was breathtaking.

I have alot of experience with various psychedelics and dissios.
But dxm at the right dose has an unique blend of nmda and serotogenic effects that makes it very special for deep entheogenic experiences.

For us who enjoys its effects it can be truly ego dissolving and soul changing.

However finding the perfect dosing protocol can be tricky.
In my opinion you want a good balance of dxm/dxo is prefered over a too high ratio of dxm.

So stacking the dose is the best way to achieve this.

If I dose to low (under 600mg) i will just get stuck in 2nd platue.
However if i overshoot it (more then 900mg)
I tend to blackout.


But a few days ago i ate around 1700mg, however this was spaced out over about 6hours.
The reason i took so much was that i had been doing Ketamine earlier in the week.
Alot actually, i took around 2,5g spread out over 3 days.
So i had major nmda tolerance going in to the trip.


I first took around 800mg spread out over 2hours.
But after about 5-6h i was still not quite in the 3rd platue.
Felt mostly dysphoria and regretted even taking dxm after my Ket binge.

So i decided to eat more, took first around 300mg and after some time i took the last dose.

In end it turned out to be the deepest dissio experience ive ever had.
The shamanic feeling of the trip rivaled my strongest ayahuasca och cacti trips.
I truly broke down my ego and had a long converstaion with my higher self.

Now i would like to revisit that place in the future, however doing a major Ket binge just so i can take dxm doesnt seem like a long term solution.

I think i need to dose at least close to a gram to get that true full power effect.
However the time i took around 900mg without tolerance i blacked out during the peak and wasted the experience.

Is the trick maybe to spread out the dose even more?
Maybe eat the first 7-800mg in around 3hours.
Then take a few 150mg doses every 30min untill im where im satisfied with the intensity.

 

[Rexeh]

I'm giving some information here directly quoted from the Erowid DXM FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions), which can be found here: http://www.erowid.org/dxm/faq/dxm_faq.shtml

First something about DXM, DXM Polistirex and DXO first:

Dextromethorphan hydrobromide is the water-soluble salt of dextromethorphan (DXM) and hydrobromic acid (that is, DXM hydrobromide is what you get when you react pure DXM with hydrobromic acid). DXM is a synthetic morphine analog, similar to levorphanol, but does not have any opiate-like effects. DXM has been in use in the USA for approximately 30 years, and has replaced codeine as an OTC cough suppressant.

DXM has been popular as an "underground" recreational drug for at least 30 years. It is probably one of the few OTC medicines with any serious recreational use potential (ephedrine might also qualify). It is both extremely safe and very effective as a cough suppressant.

DXM's IUPAC name is [(+)-cis-1,3,4,9,10,10a-hexahydro-6-methoxy- 11-methyl-2H-10,4a-iminoethanophenanthrene], and is also (and more commonly) known as 3-methoxy-17-methyl-(9alpha,13alpha,14alpha)-morphinan; CAS-125-71-3 (1). Note: the 3-methoxy and 17-methyl groups are pointed out for later notes.

(Oh, just as a side note, I'm proud to say that for once I actually got the IUPAC name right all by myself - the Merck Index lists the same thing).

The recreational use potential of DXM has not, in general, been well known, either by drug users or by physicians. Not too long ago, many physicians denied that dextromethorphan was psychoactive at all; whether this was out of ignorance or a desire to prevent recreational use, I do not know (probably the latter). At present, there is an increasing body of knowledge about DXM's potential for recreational use (and abuse) available in medical journals.

DXM is unique among recreational drugs for several reasons. First, it is pharmacologically unlike most other recreational drugs (PCP and ketamine being its nearest relatives). Second, its effects can vary considerably from individual to individual. Finally, it can cause quite different effects at different dosage levels, ranging from mild euphoria to full dissociation.

Dextromethorphan Polistirex is a time-release formulation of DXM; the "polistirex" refers to a sulfonated styrene-divinylbenzene copolymer complex -- basically, an edible plastic. It is occasionally spelled polystirex or polystyrex. Unlike the HBr salt, which is absorbed fairly quickly, this compound is intended for longer duration cough suppression. Most, but not all, people who use DXM recreationally tend to prefer the HBr form (which is also much more readily available). The polistirex preparation will probably increase the ratio of DXM to DXO (see next section).

Dextromethorphan polistirex may be more toxic than the hydrobromide version, possibly due to buildup of DXM in the bloodstream

Dextrorphan is a metabolite of DXM (i.e., the body converts DXM to dextrorphan). The conversion from DXM to DXO occurs via removal of the methyl group at position 6, a process called "O-demethylation". DXO is very similar chemically to DXM, and reacts with the same receptors in the body, but with a very different spectrum. Whereas DXM is strongest at the PCP2 and sigma receptors, DXO primarily targets the NMDA receptor (see Section 10).

The practical upshot is that the dissociative and intoxicating or "stoning" effects are stronger with DXO, whereas the stimulation, cognitive alterations, delusions, and psychotomimetic (literally, "psychosis-like") effects are stronger with DXM. Most DXM users find some balance between the two to be the most pleasurable. Too much sigma activity is usually regarded as dysphoric (strongly unpleasant) and disturbing, and if prolonged, may be dangerous.

Fortunately, you don't have to worry about converting DXM to DXO; the body does it for you via an enzyme called P450-2D6 or CYP2D6 (also called debrisoquine 4-hydroxylase). However, between 5 to 10% of the Caucasian population lacks this enzyme, and in the rest of us it can vary. Many drugs can temporarily block P450-2D6 from working and thus alter the balance between DXM and DXO. For a list of these drugs, see Section 15.1.

One of DXM's metabolites, 3-methoxymorphinan, can itself block P450-2D6. As a consequence, taking a second dose some time after the first dose of DXM will probably increase the ratio of DXM to DXO in the bloodstream. Taking the dose all at once, on the other hand, will probably increase the relative amount of DXO. Generally, then, the quicker the dosing, the more DXO and less DXM, and the more NMDA blockade (like ketamine) and the less sigma and PCP2 activity. Subcutaneous injection leads to very little conversion from DXM to DXO.

When discussing effects, this text usually uses "DXM" to refer to both dextromethorphan and its metabolite, DXO. A few people have used DXO specifically; one indicated that it did in fact have fewer cognitive effects than DXM.

You might also be interested in the mysterious Plateau Sigma:

A few people have independently contacted me about an additional plateau -- one reached not by increasing the dosage but by prolonging the experience. I searched for some time for a name before settling on "Plateau Sigma", both because it seems to be related to sigma activity (see Section 10.2) and because it occurs as one sums up small doses (sigma being the mathematical symbol for summation). This summation may lead to a strong potentiation of the psychotomimetic effects of DXM (227). Over half the people who had a Plateau Sigma experience have said it was extremely unpleasant and that they would never repeat it.

The most commonly reported dosage regimen for Plateau Sigma is given below. However, before giving it, I warn you strongly against making this sort of attempt. DXM at high dosages is probably hard both on the brain and the body, and extending the experience is likely to increase the chance for dangerous side effects. Furthermore, one must be experienced enough with DXM, with the psychedelic experience in general, and with one's own mind, to be able to understand the experience. Everyone who has reported a successful experience with this dosage regimen has been at least 23 years of age. While I do not doubt that some younger people may be capable of having a good experience at this plateau, most seem to be unable to understand it and unable to control it, and there may be a real danger of psychotic breaks. Finally, the experience is in some ways acutely uncomfortable, as one's contact with inner and outer reality seems to break down entirely.

Combining suggestions from others I have come up with the following dosage regimen. Start relatively early in the day (the experience degrades if one is too fatigued), at about 6 to 10 hours after awakening. It helps tremendously if one is in good physical shape and not under emotional stress. Take a low second plateau dose. In three hours (or about 1 hour after the peak), take a second low plateau dose. At three more hours (or, again, 1 hour after second peak) take a high second plateau or low third plateau dose. After coming down from the third plateau, instead of going back to the second plateau and down to baseline, you may be left in Plateau Sigma. Drugs which inhibit cytochrome P450-2D6 seem to enhance the duration and intensity of the experience. Nicotine is reported to inhibit it, and may even prevent it entirely.

At Plateau Sigma interesting things happen to reality. Some have reported vivid, entirely realistic contacts with alien entities, spirits, gods and goddesses. Unlike the fourth plateau, these contacts often take place with eyes open, immersed in everyday reality. Although none of the people who reported these experiences to me had bad trips, most related that the experiences were so real that they felt they easily could have.

Vision suffers a curious change, seeming to consist of well-processed but highly strobed images; so strong is the effect that it seems as if one is looking at the world under a fast strobe light. The eyes don't seem to track in synch with the inner 3D model of the world, so that when one looks to one side or another, the world lurches back and forth for a moment. Interestingly, it almost seems as if one is looking at the world from an inner vision with the eyes closed (see Section 5.11).

Finally, thoughts can be totally deranged. Connections between entirely unrelated ideas form, causality goes out to lunch, and one's personality seems pretty much dissolved into the universe. Expect to hear a lot of voices; some people find themselves totally obedient to them. There seems to be a "tireless" quality to the experience, as if one does not feel either fatigue or emotion directly, but only receives information from the inner voices ("sit down now, you're tired"). There are interesting comparisons both to accounts of acute schizophrenia and to Jaynes' postulated bicameral mind (350).

Again, let me warn you of the dangers here. You are probably stepping head first into psychosis, and unless you've got a very good trip sitter, you might end up coming back to reality in a padded room. Or, if you're really unlucky, you might freak out, have a hypertensive crisis, and end up in the hospital. Chronic high-dose use of PCP has been implicated both in deterioration of some brain areas and in cerebral hemorrhages. While PCP stands somewhat alone among dissociatives due to its additional and peculiar pharmacology, one should always be cautious when blazing trails in uncharted territory.

One last time: Be Careful!

Hope this helps out a bit, please read the enitre DXM FAQ before calculating mg/kg bodyweight doses.


-- Peace o/

 

[Bitchniggaz]

Thanks man, ive already googled and read alot of basic dxm information.
I always research my chems before even considering a trial.

I guess i was mostly looking for people who have done extensive serious tripping with dex.

Alot of trip reports on dxm are really hard to read, most are from stupid kids having shitty set and settings ending up badly.

I guess since its widely avaible it makes it to alot of reckless people who shouldnt be doing drugs.

 

[Rexeh]

I have done DMX, DXM Polistirex and DXO many times on all five plateaus, always getting DXM Polistirex which takes about 2 hours to fully kick in but then works for at least 12 hours and ofcourse it's all about the ratio of DXM / DXO in your bloodstream. I'd be happy to try to describe a plateau Sigma trip for you, however it shouldn't be easy as you can encounter even entities living on the astral plane or have multidimensional experiences etc.

Read the DXM FAQ on Erowid.ORG is my only recommendation.


-- Peace o/

 

[Bitchniggaz]

Going for it again tonight, i have around 1100mg of dxm powder in gelcaps.
Ive had issues with really slow comeups before.
Could be cause of to full stomach i guess.
But ive read people having absorption issues with pure dxm.

So im going to start off with dissolving 300mg in some lemon juice together with 300mg in a gelcaps.
Then just redose when i feel it.
Im aiming for a high 3th - low 4th.
Will also vape cannabis and mapacho and consume n20.

I have some K tolerance lingering but not to much i think.

 

[Rexeh]

Have fun!


-- Peace o/

 

[JackARoe]

I guess i was mostly looking for people who have done extensive serious tripping with dex.

Alot of trip reports on dxm are really hard to read, most are from stupid kids having shitty set and settings ending up badly.

I admit all my life I've wanted to at least try DXM. Some credible people speak of its usefulness as a tool. I never got around to trying it. Only because when I do find time for mind expansion it goes to mushrooms or mescaline.

Would love to hear your thoughts after trying.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

So i took around 500mg in gelcaps with 320mg in some juice.
It def hit faster like this then just eating capped powder.

After dosing i smoked a joint of weed with some mapacho tobacco.
Then i put in my headphones and started doing whippets.
I has about 80 of em so thats what i did untill the dxm kicked in.

I remember doing about 40 hits during a few hours.
The dxm was going quite strong by now, i remember some different unique effects.
Very alien and oobe kind of expereinces ocurred.
Most of what i remember was pleasent and mystical, however a few blankspots coupled with some unpleasent memory where i was very dissorianted and could really have basicly jumped through a window since i was so out it.
So once again i think i overshot my dose.

I have some faint memory of eating my last 300mg gelcap 2-3h after my first dose.
I really think that made me go too high.

Im waiting a few weeks before trying 850mg next time.
I think that would be just about right.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I have had truly mystical and totally out of body / near death-like experiences on DXM.

Has anyone ever had paranormal phenomenon occur while on it? Curious because I have, several times. And in a few instances, there were others with me, who were not on DXM who also witnessed it. It got to be so bad that any time something weird would happen to my friend, she would text me and ask me if I was doing DXM again. lol

After so many trips, it loses this magic power and becomes a very gross drug that feels like it probably causes neurological complications, especially if mixed with any other drug. Would often skip all the magic and go straight to the "oh god I'm dying" feeling. So it's definitely best reserved if you need enlightenment.

 

[Chris Timothy]

Heh, no I've never had weird stuff happen on DXM like that. It's not too surprising though considering John Lilly's ketamine adventures, and the "Magical Xenomanic Experience" of MXE. I suppose I've just been too far out on it, second plat didn't interest me very much. First plat could channel some of the extraordinary music perception into performance, that's about as close to paranormal external events I ever got.. more like somewhat supra-normal, really, like the Tibetan monk tricks.

"Any" other drug though? I strongly disagree. The classical psychedelics should synergize just fine, and weed and a smidgen of DPH even give noticeable neuroprotection. Any upper is bad news bears though, if that's what you mean.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Heh, no I've never had weird stuff happen on DXM like that. It's not too surprising though considering John Lilly's ketamine adventures, and the "Magical Xenomanic Experience" of MXE. I suppose I've just been too far out on it, second plat didn't interest me very much. First plat could channel some of the extraordinary music perception into performance, that's about as close to paranormal external events I ever got.. more like somewhat supra-normal, really, like the Tibetan monk tricks.

"Any" other drug though? I strongly disagree. The classical psychedelics should synergize just fine, and weed and a smidgen of DPH even give noticeable neuroprotection. Any upper is bad news bears though, if that's what you mean.

Yeah I should have been more clear.

I've always been a heroin/opioid addict and when I couldn't get any for days at a time, I use to get pretty bad and I would drink up to 400-600+mg dose of dxm and while I'd wait for it to come up, I'd drink vodka straight out of the bottle and then usually during the peak or on the come down, I'd get invited to go smoke a bunch of crystal. Which also meant having very physically energetic sex. And then to come down from all of that, I would normally have to pop some benzos or I'd finally find heroin or pain pills.

After doing that numerous times, I've developed myoclonic jerks and still have them years later. Pretty sure I did some damage to brain from that. But I still consider myself an intelligent person and I honestly have no idea how I survived dxm + meth alone, not to mention dxm + vodka + meth + heroin, etc.. (NOBODY TRY THIS).

But yeah, cannabis can take DXM to another world entirely. In fact I've been surprised on a few trips where I was just having a normal dxm trip (not to freaked out) and then smoked some weed and the entire experience would become even more dissociative, to the point where I would often feel like I was finally going to die or had finally burned up my last brain cell.
Never had the pleasure of mixing dxm with shrooms or anything though. Dxm was mostly something I did when I couldn't find anything else.