Ketamine salts solubility

[AlsoTapered]

Well... my parents are in their late 70s... they tend to take whatever I demand (I demand whatever the doctor has specified) because non-compliance is the MOST common drug failure of all -patients not taking their medication.

I was also amazed- but doctor friends confism this.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Well... my parents are in their late 70s... they tend to take whatever I demand (I demand whatever the doctor has specified) because non-compliance is the MOST common drug failure of all -patients not taking their medication.

I was also amazed- but doctor friends confism this.

Mine too but way more critical.,And although I know at least 95 % of us are under influence. A simple question of a high member ( not as kite but still ) .


But what is LAVA? You mean the work out supplement. Looking at the ingredient's I doubt it removes Lipofuscin from the brain

 

[Rectify]

I'm Not Aware Of Too Many Things.
I Know What I Know If You Know What I Mean.

 

[Rectify]

 

[Rectify]

DXM Squirts New Serotonin In My Brain. Or Maybe It's Oxytocin?

 

[Baphomet64]

I'm prescribed this as of recently, for bipolar/schizoaffective disorder, I'm kinda scared of it because I don't want to experience opioid withdrawal, but the fact that it looks like a chef with a moustache mixing a margarita is calming my nerves a bit, thanks for showing me what the molecule looks like!

 

[emkee_reinvented]

My garden, with those will-less plant's in it. That I can feed LAVA starch it contains all nutrient's needed for good mineral rich ground. As they don't complain you can even cover the leaves with the ash. And by nature's design its slow release. Not for human consumption the plant's will be.

But that or LAVA the body builder supplement won't remove Lipofuscin. Which is the reason for creating a thread about Centrophenoxine. To see if the claimes are still standing.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Lave is an amazing thing. The Romans produced a form of concrete using it and two thousand years later, it's still as strong as ever. It's BETTER than modern concrete.

More importantly, it doesn't require the dehydration of calcium carbonate to produce it and modern concrete production is responsible for 10% of the world's CO2 production. I cannot help thinking that at least in nations that have locally sources, they could use it and have better results at a lower cost both financially and to the environment.

 

[G_Chem]

I'm prescribed this as of recently, for bipolar/schizoaffective disorder, I'm kinda scared of it because I don't want to experience opioid withdrawal, but the fact that it looks like a chef with a moustache mixing a margarita is calming my nerves a bit, thanks for showing me what the molecule looks like!

Definitely report back on how it makes you feel!

-GC

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Lave is an amazing thing. The Romans produced a form of concrete using it and two thousand years later, it's still as strong as ever. It's BETTER than modern concrete.

More importantly, it doesn't require the dehydration of calcium carbonate to produce it and modern concrete production is responsible for 10% of the world's CO2 production. I cannot help thinking that at least in nations that have locally sources, they could use it and have better results at a lower cost both financially and to the environment.

Is this also why Venetia which is build in water still stand, bit off topic. There concrete is so good itt beats ours today. They had an investigation on how they made it. I bet Lava could have been involved.
Even normal old conrete is better then that prefab shit of today. Look at the Atlantic wall the German's build or ancient monumental concrete building in harbour's of Rotterdam.

Centrophenoxine vs. the dr's med's is like lava to artificial fertilizer containing only N-P-K.

 

[Soulfake]

I guess the cheapest synthesis would decide how the enantiomeric ratio would be, as far as I know the enantiomeric ratio of desmethyl-tramadol is quite variable depending on route and reaction factors, I once had some odT fumarate which lacks almost all noradrenergic effects (almost no euphoria and only relative boring sedative effects), while some charges almost only have those and gave you too much noradrenaline. If there is no enantiomer-selective synthesis that is cheap enough, one would probably use normal odT as starting material for esterification with the pregabalin (although pregabalin is usually used as only one enantiomer if I remember correctly, what would that mean for those frankenstein molecules?)

I wonder how pricey such compounds would be, basically it should be the cost of both compounds plus the esterification, which shouldn't be too complicated I guess. But I'm really just a layman, most things I "know" about chemistry stem from pattern recognition by looking and reading about molecules, pharmacology etc. for about 15 years ^^', and a bit of luck mixed with alchemy for the necessary whimsicality as a crazy drug nerd.

edit: you can also find the complete Marvin Suite somewhere to download, you can make chemical overlays with it and much more. A few years ago you could download it on the makers website when registering as a student or something similar, but now it seems not as easy to find. If someone finds a legal download link pls share

Marvin

Draw with Marvin, import, edit, and export your chemical structures effortlessly from one simple application.

chemaxon.com

 

[AlsoTapered]

I believe tramadol (as it's presented as a medicine) consists of the trans-pair but in actual fact if the (1S,2S) enantiomer were isolated, it would be a more potent opioid and importantly, a much safer one. I believe traces of the cis-pair are found in medicinal forms in trace amounts but are more or less inactive.

If you are considering a compound that is 2:1 pregabalin: tramadol then it's worth asking if you will accept the trans-pair so in effect, hydrolysis produces 3 different actives OR you choose to go the extra mile and specify the (1S,2S).

I'm sure you know that replacing the tertiary hydroxyl of (1S,2S) tramadol with a fluorine, the compound is some four times more potent (as opioid) than the trans-pair of tramadol i.e. 8 times more potent than the (1S,2S).

OK, it's a tricky reaction - fluorination of tertiary hydroxyls requires DAST or other hazardous reagents but you do end up with something that's about as potent as morphine.

 

[AlsoTapered]

While I feel it should be the right of every adult to make an informed choice what compounds they choose to imbibe, I think INFORMED choice is vital.

The unapproved drug centrophenoxine (meclofenoxate) in cognitive enhancement dietary supplements - PubMed

Clinicians should be aware and advise patients that cognitive enhancement supplements may contain unapproved and prohibited drugs.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Now please forgive me for only providing one reference but it's a widely known issue within the supplement industry that their is very little oversight. It isn't an issue limited to centrophenoxine. I've read that even simple vitamin and electrolyte supplements often don't contain the stated dose and contain unlisted compounds.

If you can afford it, I strongly urge you to buy the pure material that is provided with a reliable, independent certificate of analysis.

While it's rare that supplements contain dangerous impurities, it's worth noting that some quite high-profile supplements have been taken off the market because unlike a medicine, the testing requirements for supplements are somewhat lax.

 

[Soulfake]

Yes I thought about a halogenated version but I wonder why it hasn't been considered by the big RC industry yet? Is desmethyl-Tramadol in general somewhat tricky or pricey to synthesize? Otherwise I see no reason why there haven't been many analogues already popping up.

But somehow I'm not a big fan of halogenated compounds anyways, besides benzodiazepines. Maybe because of my experiences with synthetic cannabinoids, if you smoke so many different compounds you somehow get a "feeling" for what makes fluorinated noids different in general, not that it's feeling or being more toxic or so, I can't find words for what I want to say. Maybe it has to do with the western pharmaceutical system where everything gets halogenated so you can sell 1/100 the amount and quadruple the profit, just like we have seen with synthetic noids. The more potent the better and mainly because of economics, I wonder how many good compounds there are out there that maybe need bigger doses, don't have the narrowest possible effect spectrum etc. to be patentable but would help much more with less side effects as an addition to the medicine spectrum.

I'm always fascinated by the russian pharma industry during sovjet times, even though they didn't have better or as-good medicine at all, there are so many interesting compounds and general ways of looking on how to make medicine, from the natural extracts like Schizandra, Eleuthero and Rhodiola to compounds like Phenibut or Picamilon, the racetams like Phenylpiracetam or Noopept and the peptide compounds like Semax of which there have been thousands being researched. Maybe sometimes it doesn't need a high potent patentable compound when glueing niacine and gaba together is enough to get a cheap and effective medicine for mild conditions with no side effects. A bit like a bridge between natural and chemical therapy.

But I'm getting off topic here...


If the first compound would convert into clonazepam inside the body by ring-closure, would the second compound create Meclonazepam (not Methylclonazepam)? I loved that stuff, favorite benzo after Etizolam.

How dangerous do you think are those benzophenone-prodrugs? For me as a layman they look a bit suspect with those two benzol rings, but it seems like a great way to play around with many new prodrugs. Established ones like pro-Diazepam are known to be safe even when injected into the muscle or blood, and from what I found in literature others like Alpra-Triazolobenzophenone shouldn't be very toxic, but for example I couldn't find one that uses the nitro unit in such a pro-drug, or the pyridine ring like Bromazepam and Pyrazolam. Could those impart toxic properties, or haven't they been considered because of lower effect possibility, worse perfomance, etc.?

 

[AlsoTapered]

The former will ring-close depending on pH BUT the problem with such prodrugs is that the amine from one molecule could dehydrate with the ketone of another to form a dimer unless the material is diluted to reduce the chances of that to a vanishingly small level. Now the later needs a bit more of a push to dehydrate - or at least I know that making 3-methyl benzodiazepines seems to require rather more vigorous consitions.

But surely the feature that should cause most concern is the aromatic nitro? @fastandbulbous helpfully posted a paper in which it was shown that nitrobenzodiazepines produce two toxic metabolites. Not dangerous under normal dosing conditions but in overdose they were fare less forgiving. I think one metabolite is hepatotoxic, I forger the other.

That's why intentional overdoses of diazepam (at least consumed without other drugs) is rarely if ever fatal but with nitrazepam and flunitrazepam, it's a known issue. Nitrobenzodiazepines, if discovered today, likely wouldn't get an ML.

 

[izo]

Is desmethyl-Tramadol in general somewhat tricky or pricey to synthesize?

it is one step from commercially available tramadol. yield is in the high 90ies i think so rather cheap to make.

 

[AlsoTapered]

You now need an appropriate licence to purchase tramadol on the open market. It IS an incredibly cheap precursor and indeed, it's very simple to perform the O-demethylation. But don't forget - tramadol has 4 enantiomers. I'm PRESUMING that the trans-pair is what is being sold.

A quick gander at US5733936A reveals that tramadol analogues are a more complex subject than is generally known. But it's important to begin with the original patent. US 3652589. Note the low TI (2.1).

I guess that if one could find better way to replace that tertiary hydroxyl moiety with a fluorine, THEN you would have a very attractive RC.

Now, resolving the (1R,2R) and (1S,2S) is a bit clunky but I would be prepared to bet that somewhere a patent will present a good route. Third party researchers might reasonably gamble that one day the (1S,2S) enantiomer might have become a new product and finding and patenting the OPTIMAL resolution would then be of value - said third party could charge manufacturers to use their methodology. It's actually common. Pick a medicine that is marketed as a raecemate and search the patents...

That's why I always tell people to sit and read patents. Often their is no 'novel' chemistry involved. Somebody somewhere will spot a possible profit.

BTW while rat tail-withdrawal tests are of limited value, it's worth noting that:

Tramadol - ed50 15.40 mg/kg
example 18 O-DMT - ed50 5.64 mg/kg
example 2 (1S,2S) O-DMFT 0.64mg/kg

Now, while I cannot go into detail, I would at the very least find a way to separate the Tramadol trans-pair so O-demethylation would yield (1S,2S) O-DMT which won't only be twice as potent but also subjectively better.

But best of all would be to separate trans-pair, exchange -OH for -F and then O-demethylate.

Of course, I can't explain HOW someone would go about doing that but the figures don't lie and although those tail-withdrawal tests when used to demonstrate the potency of morphine vary hugely BUT I believe it's essentially around the same potency as M and without the SNDRI activity, a lot safer than O-DMT.

EDIT EP0787715A1 resolves tramadol.

 

[Rectify]

It Feels Like I'm On

METHODRONE
1-(4-methoxyphenyl)-2-methylamino-1-oxopropane

There Are 15 Dead People For Every 1 Living One.

 

[Rectify]

SINGLE_INGLE
1-(4-methoxyphenyl)-2-ethylaminocyclohexane

IZO_IZOD
1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-dimethylaminocyclohexane

AMPLE_SAMPLE
2-phenyl-1-aminocyclohexane

 

[Rectify]

]

PARTHENOGENESIS
1-(1-piperidinyl)-2-(4-bromophenyl)-cyclohexane

BIG_BLACK_NEMESIS
1-(3,4-dichlorophenyl)-2-methylaminocyclohexane

BRAND_NEW_SEGA_GENESIS
1-phenyl-2-methylaminocyclohexane