Opioids Does the LD50 of Oxycodone differ depending on the ROA?

[SlightlyStoopid]

I remember someone on here told me that Oxycodone has a relatively high LD50, and that you generally shouldn’t worry about doses under 100mg if you’re concerned about overdosing.

But does this apply to ALL routes of administration, or just when taken orally?

I don’t IV… but I would imagine that — as well as when taken intranasally, the LD50 would be a lot lower.

Just trying to figure out how to consume the last of my Roxi 30s and get the most out of them (without ODing, obviously). I have been taking them daily for the past couple months, so my tolerance is huge.

I have taken up to 90mg of Oxycodone orally before (nine 10mg Percocets via CWE) and been fine, but I feel like snorting 90mg of it would be too much since it enters your bloodstream and takes effect a hell of a lot quicker. Am I wrong?

(And please don’t tell me to take a tolerance break; I already know that would be my best bet if I want to play it safe and still be able to enjoy my buzz. This question is just something I’ve been wondering about.)

Thanks for any input!

 

[paranoid android]

I think oxy has a oral availability of up to 70% which is pretty fucking good. You actually get less from snorting it. If you did iv it yes you would need less to od.

 

[SlightlyStoopid]

I think oxy has a oral availability of up to 70% which is pretty fucking good. You actually get less from snorting it. If you did iv it yes you would need less to od.

I only like Oxycodone orally if it's Percocets. I have tried taking my Roxi 30s by mouth before and it was a complete waste. I even crushed up and parachuted an entire 75mg (3.5 of them) and I barely got any recreational effect from them whatsoever. 75mg of Oxycodone, snorted, on the other hand, got me exactly where I wanted to be.

I would never shoot up... but that makes sense for it to have a lower LD50. Would you need less to OD when snorted as well?

 

[Keif' Richards]

Yes, basically. Different ROADS lead to variations in the amount of the drug that is actually absorbed, with the non-absorbed drugs being excreted through some metabolic process.

The LD50 is sometimes listed as a concentration in the body, so the ROA would be irrelevant.

The LD50 could just as easily be recorded as oral or parenteral. It's a valid question for sure. It's something that I think could be figured out with a small amount of digging.

 

[SlightlyStoopid]

Yes, basically. Different ROADS lead to variations in the amount of the drug that is actually absorbed, with the non-absorbed drugs being excreted through some metabolic process.

The LD50 is sometimes listed as a concentration in the body, so the ROA would be irrelevant.

The LD50 could just as easily be recorded as oral or parenteral. It's a valid question for sure. It's something that I think could be figured out with a small amount of digging.

So, do you think it would be safe to assume snorting 90mg could lead to overdose more easily than when taken orally?

I’ll do some more research on the subject when I get home to my computer. But if that’s the case, I’m not going to risk it. I’ll just do a tolerance break so 30 or 60mg will hit good again.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @SlightlyStoopid

You're asking a lot of great questions man. I'll tell you that back when I was a Greenlighter myself, I often had some of the same questions. I was forced early on to adopt the idea that this concept of LD50 can only be used as a benchmark/way of gaining perspective. After all, the concept itself is only telling us how much of a substance is required to kill 50% of a specific group of mice/rats or what have you. Obvious questions are already raised by this method; "are there hardier rats out there capable of much more abuse?" for example. This doesn't mean the data is useless. It does mean that it is important to note the imprecise nature of the data.

I've always looked at LD50 as a great place to start. It is no doubt highly valuable as despite its drawbacks, it's undeniable that there is value in knowing the LD50 even if we are only applying this data to say, the mouse; furthermore, for those unaware, you might be interested to know that among the entirety of the animal kingdom, including seemingly similar mammals related to ourselves, the potency of a given substance can be several times more potent from one to another. For instance, and I am talking out of my ass here, a rabbit might be 6x more effected by Morphine than say, a field mouse and on and on.

So, even with a relatively well-known LD50 for a laboratory mouse, we still are never left with anything other than a very uneducated guess, especially so given than humans are going to no doubt react differently to these drugs than a mouse would. So to end my point, it's never anything more than a very, very broad estimate of what might or could actually kill a human.

Shall we further complicate things? Let's hit it fellow BL'ers.

Oxycodone itself is one of a relatively small group of Opioid which possess what is termed in pharmacology a favorable bioavailability profile.

What this means is that Oxycodone's bioavailability is relatively constant regardless of how it is put into the body. Intravenous, intramuscular, per oral, intrarectal etc. are all going to lead to a highly favorable potency profile. In general, the lowest you'll ever see is ~85%. Considering our intravenous bioavailability will always be 99%-100%, it is essentially of the same potency regardless of how it is given. Many would say this is what has led to its immense popularity as an oral Opioid medication (Hydrocodone possesses similar qualities so it's easy to see where I'm going with this).

What is significantly more common are the drugs like Morphine, Diamorphine (Heroin), Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) among many others. These will be more commonly administered in hospital as they are favorable when administered parenterally and the hospital has the easy ability to administer lines, monitor dosage administration and so on.

You see, Morphine for example, has the more typical bioavailability profile of the common Opioids.

Oral = 30%
Rectal = 30%-60%
Nasal = 20%-30% (highly irregular among Opioids and drugs in general, in which nasal administration is more often twice the potency as per oral)\
Parenteral = 100%

This same bioavailability typically applies to many other common Opioids, namely Hydromorphone (Dilaudid), likely the second-most utilized Opioid in the hospital setting.

So to answer your question, the potency or more correctly the bioavailability of Oxycodone specifically is altered little by the route of administration. There are some indications even that Oxycodone can actually be as low as 60% when isufflated. I don't have a ton of research to back this up, but suffice to say, you're probably better off taking the pills orally or rectally if you're looking for a quicker hit.

I'm the unofficial ambassador of rectal administration among Bluelighters. It's not necessarily a popular position to be in (no pun intended), but for the sake of Harm Reduction, Keif' will continue his butt-play until Donald Trump makes all butt-play illegal in late 2025.

 

[SlightlyStoopid]

Hey @SlightlyStoopid

You're asking a lot of great questions man. I'll tell you that back when I was a Greenlighter myself, I often had some of the same questions. I was forced early on to adopt the idea that this concept of LD50 can only be used as a benchmark/way of gaining perspective. After all, the concept itself is only telling us how much of a substance is required to kill 50% of a specific group of mice/rats or what have you. Obvious questions are already raised by this method; "are there hardier rats out there capable of much more abuse?" for example. This doesn't mean the data is useless. It does mean that it is important to note the imprecise nature of the data.

I've always looked at LD50 as a great place to start. It is no doubt highly valuable as despite its drawbacks, it's undeniable that there is value in knowing the LD50 even if we are only applying this data to say, the mouse; furthermore, for those unaware, you might be interested to know that among the entirety of the animal kingdom, including seemingly similar mammals related to ourselves, the potency of a given substance can be several times more potent from one to another. For instance, and I am talking out of my ass here, a rabbit might be 6x more effected by Morphine than say, a field mouse and on and on.

So, even with a relatively well-known LD50 for a laboratory mouse, we still are never left with anything other than a very uneducated guess, especially so given than humans are going to no doubt react differently to these drugs than a mouse would. So to end my point, it's never anything more than a very, very broad estimate of what might or could actually kill a human.

Shall we further complicate things? Let's hit it fellow BL'ers.

Oxycodone itself is one of a relatively small group of Opioid which possess what is termed in pharmacology a favorable bioavailability profile.

What this means is that Oxycodone's bioavailability is relatively constant regardless of how it is put into the body. Intravenous, intramuscular, per oral, intrarectal etc. are all going to lead to a highly favorable potency profile. In general, the lowest you'll ever see is ~85%. Considering our intravenous bioavailability will always be 99%-100%, it is essentially of the same potency regardless of how it is given. Many would say this is what has led to its immense popularity as an oral Opioid medication (Hydrocodone possesses similar qualities so it's easy to see where I'm going with this).

What is significantly more common are the drugs like Morphine, Diamorphine (Heroin), Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) among many others. These will be more commonly administered in hospital as they are favorable when administered parenterally and the hospital has the easy ability to administer lines, monitor dosage administration and so on.

You see, Morphine for example, has the more typical bioavailability profile of the common Opioids.

Oral = 30%
Rectal = 30%-60%
Nasal = 20%-30% (highly irregular among Opioids and drugs in general, in which nasal administration is more often twice the potency as per oral)\
Parenteral = 100%

This same bioavailability typically applies to many other common Opioids, namely Hydromorphone (Dilaudid), likely the second-most utilized Opioid in the hospital setting.

So to answer your question, the potency or more correctly the bioavailability of Oxycodone specifically is altered little by the route of administration. There are some indications even that Oxycodone can actually be as low as 60% when isufflated. I don't have a ton of research to back this up, but suffice to say, you're probably better off taking the pills orally or rectally if you're looking for a quicker hit.

I'm the unofficial ambassador of rectal administration among Bluelighters. It's not necessarily a popular position to be in (no pun intended), but for the sake of Harm Reduction, Keif' will continue his butt-play until Donald Trump makes all butt-play illegal in late 2025.

Thanks for taking the time to type all that up! There was a lot of valuable information in there.

And as far as all the questions go: I'm a firm believer in safe, responsible drug use. I don't see a problem with recreational drug use at all — as long as you know your mind and body and are safe with it, or don't let it spiral out of control. Nothing wrong with experimenting. Nothing wrong with finding recreational activities to pass time. Nothing wrong with wanting to feel better and seek a temporary escape... and so on.

You see, I was extremely reckless back in my younger days. I was young, dumb, stubborn, hard-headed and didn't really give a fuck about pretty much anything. I had a pretty bad drug habit at one point and was completely careless with it — I've overdosed several times; I've been placed on a "Marchman Act" before (a Marchman Act is a Florida law that doctors and police officers can sign to get someone involuntary drug or alcohol treatment if they deem it necessary because they believe a person's substance-abuse puts them at risk); I've been to in-patient drug rehabilitation treatment centers before as well as out-patient, etc.

Now days, I just like to play it safe. Nothing wrong with occasionally wanting to get high and have a good time — just be smart and safe about it. That's why I've been asking all the questions I have; I just don't want to revert back to my old ways. I'm in this with an entirely different mindset now.

 

[Parabolan]

Just eat your oxycodone or plug it.

 

[SlightlyStoopid]

Just eat your oxycodone or plug it.

No, thanks. Eating Roxicodone is a waste to me - I barely get any effect from it whatsoever. While, in contrast, snorting the same number of MGs that I eat will get me exactly where I want to be. Percs, on the other hand, are a whole different story — I will crush up and parachute those all day. Or even take them whole (orally). They seem to hit better for me when taken orally compared to Roxies.

And I don't have the proper syringe/tools for plugging, nor do I have any desire to shove anything up my asscunt — especially drugs. But I'll keep that in mind next time I do decide to stick anything up there.

 

[cdin]

No, thanks. Eating Roxicodone is a waste to me - I barely get any effect from it whatsoever. While, in contrast, snorting the same number of MGs that I eat will get me exactly where I want to be. Percs, on the other hand, are a whole different story — I will crush up and parachute those all day. Or even take them whole (orally). They seem to hit better for me when taken orally compared to Roxies.

And I don't have the proper syringe/tools for plugging, nor do I have any desire to shove anything up my asscunt — especially drugs. But I'll keep that in mind next time I do decide to stick anything up there.

so - roxie and percs contain exactly the same active ingredient. the only difference is added tylenol, so it doesn't make sense that one hits better assuming they are both IR preparations. I'd wager there is a difference in dosage? like 5mg roxies and 10mg percs? but yeah - oxycodone in instant release in both.

And afai understand it, the oral ba of oxy is 90%+. definitely better pharmacokinetics to eat than to snort (20 year chronic pain patient, oxy only med)

 

[SlightlyStoopid]

so - roxie and percs contain exactly the same active ingredient. the only difference is added tylenol, so it doesn't make sense that one hits better assuming they are both IR preparations. I'd wager there is a difference in dosage? like 5mg roxies and 10mg percs? but yeah - oxycodone in instant release in both.

And afai understand it, the oral ba of oxy is 90%+. definitely better pharmacokinetics to eat than to snort (20 year chronic pain patient, oxy only med)

Yes, I understand the difference between Roxicodone and Percocets; I'm certainly not new at this. I've been an on-and-off pain management patient myself since I was 18-years-old and been a recreational drug-user since I was 15... and I'm in my mid-thirties now. I was merely stating that Roxicodone, when taken orally, isn't as effective to me for some reason when compared to Percocets. For whatever reason, I don't know - and no, it doesn't make much sense... at all. But everyone is different. Maybe it is the addition of the Acetaminophen, because that is said to potentiate the pain-killing effects, at least.

And as far as Oxy having a higher bioavailability when taken orally, I beg to differ. I have even crushed up and parachuted two-and-a-half 30mg Roxies before — so a total of 75mg of Oxycodone — and barely got any effect from it whatsoever. 75mg of Roxicodone snorted, on the other hand, had me exactly where I wanted to be. And those things aren't cheap anymore. Here where I live, Roxies 30s are going for $36 a piece right now... so that was basically $90 down the drain when I took them by mouth; hence why I said a complete waste.

(By the way: I'm not trying to argue. I'm just sharing my personal experience with both formulations and both ROAs.)

 

[puke]

Got a question because I've never done either. Is there a difference between Roxys and Oxys and what's the difference? I'm under the impression Roxy is just slang for Oxy, like it "rocks". So knowledge me.

 

[SlightlyStoopid]

Got a question because I've never done either. Is there a difference between Roxys and Oxys and what's the difference? I'm under the impression Roxy is just slang for Oxy, like it "rocks". So knowledge me.

Roxicodone is basically a brand name for immediate-release Oxycodone pills. They come in 5mg, 15mg, and 30mg (which is the highest IR Oxycodone pill out there). They contain nothing but Oxycodone; while in comparison, Percocets also contain Acetaminophen and only come in 2.5mg, 5mg, 7.5mg, and 10mg.

 

[puke]

Roxicodone is basically a brand name for immediate-release Oxycodone pills. They come in 5mg, 15mg, and 30mg (which is the highest IR Oxycodone pill out there). They contain nothing but Oxycodone; while in comparison, Percocets also contain Acetaminophen and only come in 2.5mg, 5mg, 7.5mg, and 10mg.

Is it actually called Roxicodone or is that just a nickname?

 

[SlightlyStoopid]

Is it actually called Roxicodone or is that just a nickname?

It's actually called Roxicodone; that's basically the brand name to it. The generic version is just called Oxycodone 5mg, 15mg, 30mg, and so forth...

Just like the IR formulation of Oxycodone with Tylenol. The brand name is called Percocet, and the generic version is called Acetaminophen and Oxycodone Hydrochloride 325mg / 2.5mg; Acetaminophen and Oxycodone Hydrochloride 325mg / 5mg; etc...

 

[cdin]

Yes, I understand the difference between Roxicodone and Percocets; I'm certainly not new at this. I've been an on-and-off pain management patient myself since I was 18-years-old and been a recreational drug-user since I was 15... and I'm in my mid-thirties now. I was merely stating that Roxicodone, when taken orally, isn't as effective to me for some reason when compared to Percocets. For whatever reason, I don't know - and no, it doesn't make much sense... at all. But everyone is different. Maybe it is the addition of the Acetaminophen, because that is said to potentiate the pain-killing effects, at least.

And as far as Oxy having a higher bioavailability when taken orally, I beg to differ. I have even crushed up and parachuted two-and-a-half 30mg Roxies before — so a total of 75mg of Oxycodone — and barely got any effect from it whatsoever. 75mg of Roxicodone snorted, on the other hand, had me exactly where I wanted to be. And those things aren't cheap anymore. Here where I live, Roxies 30s are going for $36 a piece right now... so that was basically $90 down the drain when I took them by mouth; hence why I said a complete waste.

(By the way: I'm not trying to argue. I'm just sharing my personal experience with both formulations and both ROAs.)

i getcha, i mean, i have long decades experience well and at least my experience stacks up to the literature, which is pretty well elucidated for BAs/ROAs.
I'd wager that you get much more effect out of the percocets is the addition of the acetaminophen - which DEFINITELY increases the perceived pain relieving effects. I'd be interested to know if you ever tried eating roxies with 500mg of tylenol added, and seen if that got you the type of effect you were after? it would not shock me if that improved the experience for you. i also take it for pain and i can def say the added ibuprofen or acetaminophen in percs or whatever the other is called w the ibu.

 

[SlightlyStoopid]

i getcha, i mean, i have long decades experience well and at least my experience stacks up to the literature, which is pretty well elucidated for BAs/ROAs.
I'd wager that you get much more effect out of the percocets is the addition of the acetaminophen - which DEFINITELY increases the perceived pain relieving effects. I'd be interested to know if you ever tried eating roxies with 500mg of tylenol added, and seen if that got you the type of effect you were after? it would not shock me if that improved the experience for you. i also take it for pain and i can def say the added ibuprofen or acetaminophen in percs or whatever the other is called w the ibu.

Yes, I was going to do that one night after taking the Roxies by mouth... but couldn't find Tylenol anywhere in my house. Lol

Also, part of the enjoyment I get out of snorting them is the nostalgia. Me and my girlfriend used to snort Roxie 30s and Oxy 40s pretty much every day back in the 2000s (when I was a teenager). This was back in the day when doctors were passing them out like Halloween candy here in Florida, and since they were so easily obtainable, they were going for half the milligram — $15 for a 30; $20 for a 40; $40 for an 80, etc. And then the feds cracked down on the opioid epidemic and most doctors stopped prescribing them, so they just disappeared.

But I just got my hands on some for the first time in over a decade and wanted to bring back memories of those days. That was how I remembered doing them, and that was how I enjoyed them.