Misc Does St John's Wort Work as well as SSRI

[Jayess]

Celexa has worked well to remove depression/anxiety symptoms in the past, however it did cause emotional blunting, sexual dysfunction, completely inhibiting MDMA/psychedelics and I'm not longer able to smoke weed without panic attacks and paranoia

I've never tried St Johns Wort before, but I've heard it works well for the same function, without causing emotional blunting or sexual problems. I've also heard it can restore the magic for MDMA and potentiate psychedelic euphoria. But I've also heard of potential problems to do with eyes, photosensitivity, mania and psychosis.

Can anyone give any experiences they've had with SJW and whether it was effective for their symptoms, and also whether they had any negative side effects or problems.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Jayess, I have some information that you might find useful. St. John's Wort (Hypericum Perforatum), although it is a commonly purchased and used over the counter substance, it actually has pretty significant effect upon the individual who uses it. One of the definitive traits of the substance is that it's responsible for a lot of negative drug interactions. It interacts with countless drugs and you need to do to your research before combining other medications with St. John's Wort.

Because St. John's Wort has effects upon Serotonin, there is a potential risk for Serotonin Syndrome, which can lead to death if it is severe. So you really should not use this supplement if you're already on an SSRI. It could be dangerous. If you decide to use St. John's Wort, I would advise you to stop taking the SSRI first.

 

[Jayess]

Yeah I heard it can cause serotonin syndrome if I mix it with SSRIs. I would definintely discontinue Celexa if I do go down the SJW route

 

[Scrofula]

There have been lots of studies that found no benefit taking St. John's Wort for depression. Only one or two studies have found some benefit, and it was bizarre in that it only worked on people from Germany (where it has a much longer history of public use).

So there's really nothing to suggest it works for depression, other than anecdotes. Meanwhile, it does have pharmacological properties, and interacts with a whole lot of common drugs, in a bad way. Overall, it doesn't seem like something a person would want to take.

But, if you aren't on other medication, and otherwise healthy, and you've got the money to spend, there's also not likely to be much harm in trying it.

I wouldn't give up Celexa to try it out though.

Edit: by which I mean, don't quit the Celexa just to see if SJW works; but if you want to try SJW, then yeah, quit the Celexa.
Don't take them at the same time, IOW.

 

[Freek123]

Hi All yes taking more then one anti depressant could lead to the serotonin syndrome, but then i know about people who receive three types of SSRI's without further problems like the sero syndrome still this is a risk only when the celexa works well for you i strongly advise you not to end the celexa and to start st. john's worth, because for many people it takes several anti depressants and many months when for every new AD 8 weeks have to be waited to see if the anti depressant will work and you have a working anti depressant that's cool.
Yes big problem those side effects, but better a load of side effects then having to live with depression, because that is no life anymore when you worry, feel anxious and a lot more talking depression by the way the worst cases of depression react best on existing anti depressants.

You could use the herb and your usual anti depressant together, but in case you think in a fashion like two anti depressant mean twice the relief well we both know that isn't true and to beware for the sero syndrome i think its best to continue the celexa and to start with a low dose of the herb per week one thing about the herb it increases the amount of liver enzymes especially cyp3A4 this means other substances who's metabolism also requires cyp3a4 that they will act a lot shorter for its contra indicated to use the herb and methadone to name one example.

Now i have this theory i like some feedback about being that our brains produce endorphines right now its also true that 30-40% of people in depression will not react to any anti depressant so why is this i used to wonder and what helps for those people well i think therapy resistant treatment may be caused for the reason of not having enough endorphines produced in the brain so to test this theory i found two guys who used more then five usual anti depressant already without result, including st.John's worth, well the first guy i gave 10mg of codeine the second one i gave 2mg of methadone and guess what both guys felt so much better asking me what the hell i gave them so i explained again and from there i heard both guys receive sub therapeutic 2mg amounts of methadone for four years more or less and stay depression free proving my theory in this to be correct to some extent minimally.

What do you think(?) it sounds like low dose opiate does helps an amount of the 35% therapy resistant people with depression and the beauty of this treatment IF needed is that depression fades away within hours instead of 6-12 weeks hoping a usual anti depressant will work, but not always and i discussed this with my prescribing doctor he agreed with me in an 70% extent only he said he could not start people with depression on opiate low dose for the reason that treatment for depression with opiates is not approved or accepted by the medical establishment yet. So far.
Best regards, Freek. (the NL)

 

[Scrofula]

Keep in mind serotonin syndrome is more complex than just taking two antidepressants together. Usually you need two different serotonergic mechanisms--ie., a reuptake inhibitor and a MAOI. Taking a Zoloft and a Prozac at the same time won't do it.

The compounds in St. John's Wort work differently enough from an SSRI that you might want to think twice about combining them. And that's separate form the liver enzyme inhibition that is the main source of trouble with SJW.

Freek, what you're really saying is that some guys got high on opiates and felt better for a while. Well, yeah, they were high. It's why people do opiates recreationally in the first place. You could have given them some good bourbon and had a similar result. The problem with those is they wear off and often leave you worse off than you were before, and while high you aren't exactly fit to operate machinery or be productive. So as antidepressants, they just aren't effective.

 

[LandsUnknown]

It may work as an antidepressant, as it is actually an SSRI. The plant contains substances that act as SSRIs. It wouldn't be good to mix with MDMA, due to possible serotonin syndrome. Shouldn't mix it with psychedelics either, as SSRIs and psychs can cause bad trips and various nasty physical side effects. But as far as I know St. John's Wort can be effective, one of the few herbs that there has been significant research on.

 

[Scrofula]

It may work as an antidepressant, as it is actually an SSRI. The plant contains substances that act as SSRIs.

There's one compound in SJW that might inhibit reuptake of half a dozen different transmitters, but indirectly, and not interfering with your SSRI meds. So it's kind of the opposite of "selective". SJW is messy: lots of compounds, many with effects on different brain systems that might effect your mood, some up, some down, most just weird.

It wouldn't be good to mix with MDMA, due to possible serotonin syndrome.

There's probably a small risk for that. A bigger risk is its induction of CYP3A4 and CYP1A2, which means it interferes with dozens of medications, not just psych meds. The warfarin you take to prevent blod clots may simply not work anymore. That could be very bad.

Shouldn't mix it with psychedelics either, as SSRIs and psychs can cause bad trips and various nasty physical side effects. But as far as I know St. John's Wort can be effective, one of the few herbs that there has been significant research on.

There's nothing biological that would make traditional psychedelics bad to mix with SSRIs. From extensive experience, you can eat a lot of LSD on Zoloft, with no apparent difference from the non-Zoloft trips. Maybe a true psych connoisseur might see some nuance; I sure never had a bad trip while on SSRIs.