Does eating LSD blotter almost straight away make for calmer and more mellow trip?

[everteen]

Or is it just a matter of dosage? First time I tried acid, I took only 125 micrograms sugar cube and I almost immediately swallowed it rather than letting it melt inside my mouth. The trip was calm and mellow, very relaxing and euphoric. Not so visual with eyes open, but CEVs were awesome. It was like an intensified sativa high and I only time I enjoyed the body buzz too.

Second time I took three 150 micrograms blotters and only swallowed after chewing those until almost nothing was left, which was an overkill. Everything went insanely fast and there was no way to control tripping or intense visuals. New trips just kept coming before the previous ones ended and it became a little frightening at one point. After the most intense tripping was over, I was still on overdrive and felt like my heart will explode at any minute, which was uncomfortable. Third time I took 250 micrograms, again by chewing the blotters, which wasn't as insane as with 450 micrograms, but there were still physicals side effects I didn't like (sensations of sweating, could feel your heartbeat, which sucks).

But just wondering was it the dosage alone or does chewing blotters for about 10-15 minutes make a difference to swallowing blotters almost immediately? Maybe it wasn't just the dosage, but a slower absorption rate and/or worse bioavailability? I don't know, but I want to have that mellow and calm trip again, not that overdrive mode I had with chewing blotters.

 

[Jackplays]

I think it was primarily the dose, but a little of both. Know that double the dose of a psych is much greater than 2 times as powerful, doubling an acid dose is many times more intense

 

[Clocktower]

The difference between 125mcg, 250mcg, and 450mcg is all in the dose. News flash, when you take large doses of LSD it's not all flowers and butterflies. 8) Whether you chew or swallow makes no difference.

 

[everteen]

The difference between 125mcg, 250mcg, and 450mcg is all in the dose. News flash, when you take large doses of LSD it's not all flowers and butterflies. 8) Whether you chew or swallow makes no difference.

I understand that, but the first time was completely different, while 250 and 450 didn't feel that different at all, the latter was just more intense. Stimulation was so overwhelming both times that even stimulation from amphetamine is nothing compared to it. It's hard to find any evidence, but many experts(eh?) on sites like these are confident that there is almost no real LSD on the markets anymore and most LSD blotters are actually some new design drugs designed to mimic the effects.

e. I also got very shitty and heavy body load from those blotters, nothing like the calm and mellow load I had from the sugar cube. And the shitty body load was still there 24 hours after taking taking the blotters.

 

[aced126]

Well, if you swallow LSD and expose it to stomach hydrochloric acid, the LSD would get enolised pretty quickly and about half of the dose is converted to an inactive diastereomer (iso-LSD). So in essence you are taking a much smaller dose if you swallow the tab.

 

[Incunabula]

Well, if you swallow LSD and expose it to stomach hydrochloric acid, the LSD would get enolised pretty quickly and about half of the dose is converted to an inactive diastereomer (iso-LSD). So in essence you are taking a much smaller dose if you swallow the tab.

^ Maybe in theory, but not in reality.

 

[Clocktower]

I understand that, but the first time was completely different, while 250 and 450 didn't feel that different at all, the latter was just more intense.

Yes, LSD at a moderate dose is very different from LSD at high doses.

Stimulation was so overwhelming both times that even stimulation from amphetamine is nothing compared to it. It's hard to find any evidence, but many experts(eh?) on sites like these are confident that there is almost no real LSD on the markets anymore and most LSD blotters are actually some new design drugs designed to mimic the effects.

LSD at high doses will produce a lot of stimulation - but did you reagent test?

I also got very shitty and heavy body load from those blotters, nothing like the calm and mellow load I had from the sugar cube. And the shitty body load was still there 24 hours after taking taking the blotters.

It's no surprise that a higher dose will produce a more intense body load, but again, if you didn't reagent test then it's also possible that what you took wasn't LSD.

So in essence you are taking a much smaller dose if you swallow the tab.

This is just not true.

 

[aced126]

^ Maybe in theory, but not in reality.

What makes you think this?

 

[everteen]

It's no surprise that a higher dose will produce a more intense body load, but again, if you didn't reagent test then it's also possible that what you took wasn't LSD.

When I think about it, CEVs were much better when I took only 125 compared 250 and 450. Makes no sense to me if it was LSD everytime. Visuals again were much more intense with blotters. Three leafs looked like candy, sunlight was intense and sparkling, everything blended together and the whole world looked like it was motion-blurred. But CEVS were almost non-existent compared to first time. Comeup was fast, harsh, and also the comedown was harsh. When the effects diminished, I didn't remember what happened during the last few hours and it felt like I woke up from a trance.

And I didn't do any tests. I just assumed it's real acid.

 

[Clocktower]

Makes no sense to me if it was LSD everytime.

LSD trips are often very different from one to the next, even for the same person with the same dose in the same setting. Give an uneducated person LSD at two different doses and they'll believe it's two different drugs. It's possible all three things you took were LSD, but equally possible they weren't. I suggest you invest in some Ehrlich's reagent you can use to test the next blotter you want to take.

 

[Incunabula]

What makes you think this?

Personal experience

 

[Solipsis]

What makes you think this?

Oral bioavailability is calculated to be about 70% or over, so that makes it already impossible for half to be lost.

All things considered for oral bioavailability 70+% is already not bad at all and I'd be surprised if sublingually you could top 80%.

To answer the question of the topic: no it probably does not make a significant difference. There is a (mostly kinetic) difference in oral absorption of LSD depending on whether you have a full or empty stomach and sublingual ingestion does circumvent that altogether, but taking it sublingually doesn't really pack the same punch as snorting or injecting something can even if it is a 'parenteral' route. This is more of a kinetics thing than of bioavailability.

What this means imo is that you should probably avoid snorting or injecting psychedelics (not really relevant for LSD for normal users - novelty bullshit) to avoid anxious intense onsets, and when you look at say mushrooms - a tea / extract or pure psilocin, as well as some other free 4-HO tryptamines can have a very intense anxious and visual onset when they are absorbed so readily.

So with LSD it will not really matter under normal circumstances and as others have said there are other factors to consider for contributing to different trip intensities and being able to bear it... but perhaps if you want to leave as little up to chance as possible you might benefit from taking LSD orally with a full stomach and not much water. You may be able to delay absorption a bit and kinetics could make the onset a bit smoother, if only in a subtle way. Then again, plenty of people can feel pretty bloated or uncomfortable with full stomachs so it may not be quite worth it..

 

[stanleyK]

In the other hand an empty stomach might trigger a bad trip if you have an hypoglycemia.

 

[aced126]

Oral bioavailability is calculated to be about 70% or over, so that makes it already impossible for half to be lost.

All things considered for oral bioavailability 70+% is already not bad at all and I'd be surprised if sublingually you could top 80%.

To answer the question of the topic: no it probably does not make a significant difference. There is a (mostly kinetic) difference in oral absorption of LSD depending on whether you have a full or empty stomach and sublingual ingestion does circumvent that altogether, but taking it sublingually doesn't really pack the same punch as snorting or injecting something can even if it is a 'parenteral' route. This is more of a kinetics thing than of bioavailability.

What this means imo is that you should probably avoid snorting or injecting psychedelics (not really relevant for LSD for normal users - novelty bullshit) to avoid anxious intense onsets, and when you look at say mushrooms - a tea / extract or pure psilocin, as well as some other free 4-HO tryptamines can have a very intense anxious and visual onset when they are absorbed so readily.

So with LSD it will not really matter under normal circumstances and as others have said there are other factors to consider for contributing to different trip intensities and being able to bear it... but perhaps if you want to leave as little up to chance as possible you might benefit from taking LSD orally with a full stomach and not much water. You may be able to delay absorption a bit and kinetics could make the onset a bit smoother, if only in a subtle way. Then again, plenty of people can feel pretty bloated or uncomfortable with full stomachs so it may not be quite worth it..

Disregarding bioavailability, my logic was loss in potency due to enol-mediated epimerisation at C-8, yielding the inactive iso-LSD.

I did some more research into this, and it turns out toxicologists are quite interested in studying the stability of LSD, in order to store appropriately samples for detection. LSD epimerises to iso-LSD in basic and (less so) acidic conditions, but it is an equilibrium which is heavily in favour of LSD, with only 1 part in 10 being converted to iso-LSD at equilibrium. The reason for this is because the formation of iso-LSD is unfavourable as the bulky diethylamide moiety needs to take up an axial position, and thus suffers from much more steric hindrance than if it were occupying the equatorial position like in LSD.

So yes, swallowing a tab should barely effect potency.

 

[aced126]

Okay, so I briefly returned to this issue and found a mistake in my above post. I know not many, but definitely a few, people in this forum are into this kind of stuff so I might as well elaborate. Since the diethylamide moiety is coming out of a cyclohexene ring in both LSD and iso-LSD, the diethylamide is able to take up a favourable equatorial position in both isomers, as both rings can flip. But in the case of iso-LSD, this forces the bulky part of the ring coming off C5 (the carbon at the other stereogenic centre) to take up a pseudoaxial position. In iso-LSD the alkyl group on C5 can rest in a favourable pseudoequatorial position while the diethylamide is also equatorial. The energy minimised structures of LSD (351kJ/mol) and iso-LSD (364kJ/mol) follow respectively:

The differences in free energy between the 2 isomers is around 13kJ/mol, resulting in an equilibrium constant of about 5, at room temperature (that is to say, while the 2 isomers are equilibriating, in say basic conditions, an equilibrium will be reached where for every 1 iso-LSD molecule, there are 5 LSD molecules). This is close to the experimental value of about 8 according to some papers which I'll try to link if anyone requests them.

Anyway, what this all goes to say is that eating a blotter of LSD would only result in a marginal decrease in potency, and storing solutions of LSD in non-neutral pHs will result in an equilibrium heavily favouring LSD. Thus this type of degradation should not be of great concern.