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DOC first time, how much should i take?

Rampelflik

Rampelflik

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Messages
103
Hi everyone,

So, i'm done with work for the day and I've got a couple of free days as of now.
Last week about 100mg of DOC arrived. I just mixed 25mg with 50ml water and ethanol mix for easy dosing.

I am a male weighing round and about 85 kg (~187 lb).
I was thinking about taking 2ml=1mg. But maybe 3ml (1,5mg) would be better. What do you think?


I've got experience with:
Nootropics:
- Piracetam
- Choline

Antihistamine:
- Doxylamine
- Diphenhydramine

Plants:
- THC
- Psylocibine/Pcylocine
- Lactuarium
- Ephedra
- LSA
- Aporphine
- Salvia Divinorum
- Nicotine
- Alcohol

Opiates:
- Opium
- Ethylmorphine Hydrobromide
- morphine
- Oxycodone

Tryptamine's:
- LSD
- N,N,-DMT
- 5-MeO-DMT
- 4AcO-DMT
- 4-Ho-MiPT
- 4-HO-MET
- 5-MeO-DiPT
- DPT
- DiPT

Phenethylamine's:
Bromo-DragonFLY
2c-B
2c-C
2c-D
2c-E
2c-I
2c-P
2c-T-7
25c-NBOMe
Mescaline
Proscaline

Amphetamine/Phenethylamine:
- MDMA
- MDA
- 5apb
- 6apb
- Amphetamine
- 4-Fluoramphetamine
- MDMC (bk-MDMA/Methylone)

Gasses:
- Amylnitriet
- N2o

Arylcyclohexylamines:
- Ketamine R
- Ketamine S
- Methoxetamine

Need to be categorised:
- GHB
- Methylphendidate (Ritalin)
- Dextromethorphan Hydrobromide (dxm)
- Cocaïne
- Meprobramate
- Mirtazepine


Benzodiazepinea:
- Flunitrazepam
- Nifoxipam
- Diazepam (Valium)
- Temazepam
- Oxazepam
- Flubromazepam
- Flubromazolam
- Flurazepam
- Clonazlolam
- Clonazepam
- Diclazepam

Thienodiazepines:
- Etizolam
- Metizolam

Other:
- Alcohol
- African Dream Root (Xhosa)
- Caffeïne
- Guarana
 
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I always tell people to jump in at 2mg with DOC, after taking a very low allergy test dose of course (like .5mg, which you should feel also). 2mg is a solid dose for me, sometimes even pretty strong. I always dose between 2 and 3mg, I rarely go above 3. But 2mg is a safe dose and one that won't overwhelm you regardless of your sensitivity.
 
Thank you.
What is your body weight, if I may ask? :)

Also, I'm home alone, no tripsitter around. Plenty of benzo's though if things get a bit too overwhelming.

Edit #1:
I think I'll just go for 3ml to start (1,5mg DOC). Wish me luck! I might consider re dosing 2,5 hours after first ingestion. Any idea on how potency will be affected due to tolerance?

Edit #2:
Two hours after ingestion effects are pretty underwhelming. Some very minor shifting in textures, that's it. There is a slight stimulating effect. But I think i could sleep a bti now if I wanted to. I'm wondering if I'll eat some more DOC, and if so, how much.

Edit #3: It's now three and a half hour past initial dose. I ate another 2ml (1mg) an hour ago. Effects have increased slightly. I would classify my experience as a upper + or in the nether regions ++.
I am considering taking some more. I'll wait another half hour.

Edit #4: 4 hours after initial dose. I decide to up the ante one final time. 3ml (1,5mg) for a final total dose of 8ml (4mg).

A proper trip report will follow later this week.

Edit #5: Full and thorough trip report: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/801601-20160822-First-DOC-experience-(4mg-in-total)
 
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165 pounds (75kg).

Next time try 2.5 or 3mg all at once... redosing hours into a trip makes the redoses quite a bit weaker than if you had taken it all at once because of short-term tolerance buildup.
 
That's going to be a huge leap in intensity, IMO too high a leap. DOC gets much stronger very quickly, doubling your dose is going to way more than double the strength. I've taken up to 9mg in a day before but I started with 3mg and redosed a variety of times, it never got much stronger than it was at first. But if I took 9mg all at once I would fear for my health. Even taking 4.5mg at once was a lot stronger than the day I took 9mg in staggered doses. You can always take more next time but with DOC vasoconstriction is an issue... it's unlikely to be dangerous at 5mg but I think you're overshooting your mark in terms of how much to increase at once. I have used DOC many, many times and I have never taken that much at once.
 
Thank you for your insights.

I will reconsider the dosage to take next time. Not sure when that will be exactly. I want to wait at least 7 days. Maybe 4mg is a better place to start..? Or 3,5mg to be on the safe side?

This first encounter with the substance has definitely showed me the potential of this stuff. I'm in no rush, but would like to reach at least a medium to strong +++ experience at some point.

Again, thank you for your advice and input, it is greatly appreciated!
 
Just go in with 2.5mg or 3mg as Xorkoth has recommended. I haven't done it myself but from reading loads of Xorkoth's and others' comments on experiences and dosing I think you're underestimating the non-linearity of the dose response curve.
 
psy997 said:
Just go in with 2.5mg or 3mg as Xorkoth has recommended. I haven't done it myself but from reading loads of Xorkoth's and others' comments on experiences and dosing I think you're underestimating the non-linearity of the dose response curve.
Click to expand...

I've edited my own personal log/trip report. It now starts with a warning for my future self to not underestimate the non-linearity of the dose response curve. I usually read my last report on any given substance before indulging again.

Thank you for input. Again, greatly appreciated!
 
Body weight is not known to be a factor in dose-response like it is for alcohol (it is very well known for that one). So I'd forget about that part. As far as I can tell it's more about individual brains and receptor densities and the like.

I only tried DOC once and while I thought the dose was 2.5 mg I don't actually remember properly.. I think if it wasn't it was 2.0 mg.
 
I´m just speculating here, but I would think that the more potent a substance is, the less influence body weight will have. A 200ug dose of acid would be "the same" in effects if you weighed 80Kg or 160Kg. Giving the same hypothetical people 100mg of MDMA would make a difference. Not sure if this is true or just my coincidental subjective experience.
 
I don't think that's right... iirc there are many more glutamate and GABA receptors than there are serotonin receptors (so variations may matter less), and also lipophilicity matters because it can mean a drug really sticks around in fatty tissue.

Benzo's are often potent and are still body weight dependent, not everyone reacts the same way but I'd say they are reasonably predictable based on body weight, not wildly unpredictable because of other factors. Unfortunately it's hard to really make the distinction because in clinical setting they will still calculate a dose in mg/kg body weight even when researching psychedelics I think, because they are used to standardizing it in as many ways as they can and it is very hard to measure brain chemistry compared to body weight.

Psychedelics have been known to be rather unpredictable and no a 200 ug dose of acid won't hit everyone the same way and can hit the heavy guy harder than the skinny girl. MDMA appears to be more body weight dependent in effect. It acts in several ways, but I must admit I cannot account for the fact that they are monoamine systems and not GABA/glutamate.

All in all, I think it is not easy to predict an easy rule of thumb - or I should say: I don't see a super consistent pattern yet, so just consider that there are apparently differences between classes and that some unusual drug effects appear to be able to overcome our usual predictions. These examples quickly show conflicts with your hypothesis.
 
My knowledge of such things is extremely limited. I'm sure it isn't as black and white as my previous speculations suggested. You make some excellent points by the way.
 
The basic assumption is that body weight correlates well with blood volume, and therefore a given dose of all drugs would be expected to have an effect which is dependent on body weight (fat is less well irrigated than other tissues, so one might tend to overestimate the required dose in morbidly obese people, but that is a minor complication). GABA receptors, the target of alcohol and benzodiazepines, are the basic type of inhibitory receptors (a fundamental function) and vary little from person to person. Neuromodulatory receptors, like those of serotonin and dopamine, vary much more from person to person, so drugs that target these systems (like LSD) can be expected to have more variable effects, although some correlation with body weight would still be expected.

Not just receptors densities will be important, but also differences in proportion of subtypes and even single-nucleotide polymorphisms (genetic differences) in the sequences of those receptors, which determine their structure. So LSD might hit you hard compared to other people yet DOC might not because you have more of a receptor subtype that LSD hits harder than DOC, or even because of a modified amino acid that you have in some of your serotonin or dopamine receptors which enhances the binding of LSD but not that of DOC.

There is another complication: metabolism. Drugs that are metabolised comparatively fast, like MDMA, will have a heavily body-weight dependent effect (bigger bodies mean more blood, longer intestines and bigger livers) superimposed on the more person-to-person variable effect of serotonin or dopamine receptor density and subtype complement or structure. LSD is slowly metabolised, so molecules already occupying receptors sites will be removed only slowly. Arrival of new molecules will be slower in those with higher body weight and therefore lower blood concentration, but the complement of available receptors will gradually fill up regardless of body weight. DOC is very slowly metabolised, so it might be the least body weight-dependent of these examples.

All this to say that you can probably use other people's helpful dose advice without adjusting for body weight, although you'll only know your personal response when it's in you!
 
I thought DOB or DOI was found to first have a rendez-vous in your lungs where it somehow turns into another compound which then goes to the brain - at least that is what one radioisotope study suggested... it seems unusual to me but I guess it is still consistent with the long onset. Doesn't change anything about your point about it though, that still stands.

Thanks for the much more refined insight.

It's good to have a much more exact reason for the observed differences between drugs w.r.t. potency depending on body weight.
 
I did 2.5 mg for my introduction to DOC and I found it the perfect starting point. It was long and satisfactory, so probably I won't jump further than 3.5 mg next time...and I expect that to be strong.
Nowadays I NEVER redose psyquedelics as it was kind of pointless in the past. YMMV.
 
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