Stimulants Do benzos actually cancel out stimulants or could I take them while on my Adderal?

[luceluna]

Hi all, I use stimulants a lot, above and beyond my prescribed dose, and like many I use benzos at the end of a run of stims to help with sleep. But could I theoretically take a low dose of a benzo during the stimulated period to help with anxiety (I am also medicated for anxiety disorders)?

I think what I specifically want to know is: does diazepam interact with, or have an effect on, amphetamine? Is it like Vitamin C (i.e. it makes your body clear the stims) or does it interact in some other way? OR do people just use it at the end of a run of stims because it makes them sleepy?

I know that some of you will be thinking "the solution to your anxiety is to take less stimulants" and I'm aware that stims can execerbate anxiety. But I'm dependent on them and sometimes it's not as simple as "just saying no".

An explanation would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[simstim]

Diazepam may calm you a bit if you take it with your Adderall. It shouldn't interact beyond that.

I used to like to occasionally take Klonopin with my Adderall when I was younger

Later I was prescribed Adderall and Valium and I always took my two ten mg valium's at bedtime.

You should think about taking your meds as prescribed. When I was younger I snorted my Adderall and was always running our early and that's when I found coke and meth.

I would've been better off taking my Adderall as prescribed.

 

[luceluna]

Thanks for the info. Sounds like it could be a good occasional solution.

My initial post may have been slightly misleading... I use base and coke, too, but from a harm-reduction perspective I prefer to take a handful of dexamphetamine tablets (I'm in Australia) than street drugs, especially because I can't always access fentanyl testing kits.

 

[unodelacosa]

Benzos tend to complement stimulants like milk & cookies, peanuts & beer, bangers & mash, etc. It never really cancels out the effects of a stimulant, but in some regard they work in opposite directions as benzos are CNS downers while stims are CNS uppers. Whenever I get the balance just right, I find myself in a flow state that is very productive for creativity projects, I find.

 

[unodelacosa]

Thanks for the info. Sounds like it could be a good occasional solution.

My initial post may have been slightly misleading... I use base and coke, too, but from a harm-reduction perspective I prefer to take a handful of dexamphetamine tablets (I'm in Australia) than street drugs, especially because I can't always access fentanyl testing kits.

Well there are gobs of counterfeit Adderall and Dexedrine out there in circulation that really contain Asian methamphetamine. But while fent could make its way into something like counterfeit Adderall/Dex, I would consider it highly unlikely to occur given fent's opposite activity to stims.

Plus it's just not cost effective to the producer whatsoever.

Just a note of warning: mixing dex and coke = cardiotoxic and neurotoxic. I'm sure you already know this. Cocaine is a triple monoamine reuptake inhibitor. It blockades the reabsorption of dopamine, serotonin, and adrenaline in the brain so they can sit longer in the synapse and have a stronger effect at those site. In contrast, amphetamine-class drugs do cause a little bit of reuptake inhibition, but they primarily work as triple monoamine releasing agents, dumping presynaptic stores of dopamine, serotonin, and adrenaline into the synapse where they have their effect at corresponding sites. Similar to cocaine, Methylphenidate (Ritalin) and its analogues/homologues and Cathinone-class drugs all work as reuptake inhibitors as well. Virtually all serotonin reuptake inhibitors will cancel the effects of MDMA which is dependent on traveling up the serotonin transporter, all of which cannot happen if something is competitively binding at that site…

 

[deficiT]

I don't think they really cancel out the effects necessarily, but they can in some case dull some of the more physically stimulating effects a bit. Typically they just take the edge off.

 

[luceluna]

Well there are gobs of counterfeit Adderall and Dexedrine out there in circulation that really contain Asian methamphetamine. But while fent could make its way into something like counterfeit Adderall/Dex, I would consider it highly unlikely to occur given fent's opposite activity to stims.

Plus it's just not cost effective to the producer whatsoever.

Yeah, I never use pressed "pharma" because if I'm going to use street drugs, powder is preferable. When I'm talking about higher doses of dexamphetamine or Adderall, I'm talking about legit pharma.

Here in Australia, fentanyl has been detected not only in cocaine but also in meth. Stupid, right? We have some fairly dim drug dealers down here...

Just a note of warning: mixing dex and coke = cardiotoxic and neurotoxic. I'm sure you already know this. Cocaine is a triple monoamine reuptake inhibitor. It blockades the reabsorption of dopamine, serotonin, and adrenaline in the brain so they can sit longer in the synapse and have a stronger effect at those site. In contrast, amphetamine-class drugs do cause a little bit of reuptake inhibition, but they primarily work as triple monoamine releasing agents, dumping presynaptic stores of dopamine, serotonin, and adrenaline into the synapse where they have their effect at corresponding sites. Similar to cocaine, Methylphenidate (Ritalin) and its analogues/homologues and Cathinone-class drugs all work as reuptake inhibitors as well. Virtually all serotonin reuptake inhibitors will cancel the effects of MDMA which is dependent on traveling up the serotonin transporter, all of which cannot happen if something is competitively binding at that site…

Thanks for this. I know far less than I should given my current situation. I'm on a tricyclic, an anti-psychotic and ADHD meds. I'll semi-regularly use benzos, mild opiates and cannabis, plus street stims if I have no other option. Basically, I'm using too much, both prescribed and non-prescribed.

Do you know if my tricyclic (clomipramine) might be interacting with the stims?

 

[nznity]

I used to have a ritual when I used to smoke crack years ago. Buy 2 clonazepams 2mg, I'd take 1 before smoking so it would take the edge off. When I was done smoking I'd take the other pill to comedown and be able to sleep. Sometimes I'd If I had a few spare money I'd buy some pregab or gabapentin to mix with the coke. I can say I had good times smoking in my room back then.

 

[deficiT]

Yeah, I never use pressed "pharma" because if I'm going to use street drugs, powder is preferable. When I'm talking about higher doses of dexamphetamine or Adderall, I'm talking about legit pharma.

Here in Australia, fentanyl has been detected not only in cocaine but also in meth. Stupid, right? We have some fairly dim drug dealers down here...



Thanks for this. I know far less than I should given my current situation. I'm on a tricyclic, an anti-psychotic and ADHD meds. I'll semi-regularly use benzos, mild opiates and cannabis, plus street stims if I have no other option. Basically, I'm using too much, both prescribed and non-prescribed.

Do you know if my tricyclic (clomipramine) might be interacting with the stims?

Adderall and clomipramine Interactions - Drugs.com

A Moderate Drug Interaction exists between Adderall and clomipramine. View detailed information regarding this drug interaction.

www.drugs.com

"Before taking amphetamine, tell your doctor if you also use clomiPRAMINE. You may need dose adjustments or special tests in order to safely take both medications together. This combination could cause an increase in blood pressure, fever, headache, or fast or irregular heartbeat. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using your medications without first talking to your doctor."

 

[luceluna]

@unodelacosa @deficiT, I understand how amphetamine and cocaine do different things, but can one of you explain what makes the combination neurotoxic? And is it only neurotoxic if both are taken together? (ie. can you do amphetamines one day and cocaine a couple of days later?)

 

[unodelacosa]

Here in Australia, fentanyl has been detected not only in cocaine but also in meth. Stupid, right? We have some fairly dim drug dealers down here...

They say that everywhere, not just in Australia. I honestly don't believe it's as dangerous as they make it seem. Overall, it's just another scare tactic with just enough of a kernel of truth in there to make it seem plausible.

If anything, it's more likely some of the packaging tools maybe carried residue into another drug, or perhaps something happened while handling, smuggling, and transporting these drugs and trace amounts of fent are throwing positive test results, and because it's so potent, whoever is testing it might not be bothering with GC-MS. People place too much trust in presumptive tests after all, and why wouldn't authorities want to try to scare people out of using drugs with the big, bad, looming threat of fentanyl out there, lurkin', waiting to get you! Yes even you, stim users! Reefer madness! ← It smacks of propaganda.

That doesn't mean fent isn't real and you should place all your confidence in your local heroin dealer, either...

Thanks for this. I know far less than I should given my current situation. I'm on a tricyclic, an anti-psychotic and ADHD meds.

Jesus Tittyfucking Christ, man. So a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, a dopamine inhibitor/antipsychotic, and either a double monoamine releaser (Adderall, Vyvanse, or Dexedrine most likely) or double monoamine reuptake inhibitor (Ritalin, Focalin, Wellbutrin, etc.).

I'll semi-regularly use benzos, mild opiates and cannabis,

Okay, well if used responsibly, you should be okay. The cannabis is maybe even neuroprotective.

plus street stims if I have no other option.

Street stims are often fairly serotonergic, this includes cocaine, meth, 4-MMC, and others. And of course MDMA does not work with SRIs like Clomipramine which is a powerful and broad serotonin reuptake inhibitor. This can interfere w/cocaine use, amphetamine-class drugs, and possibly even your ADHD medication.

Basically, I'm using too much, both prescribed and non-prescribed.

Ok, talk to your doctor about cutting back (seriously, check with your doctor first before doing this), and use some self-discipline over your recreational drug use. I'm not saying quit – there's rarely a need for such dramatic extremes – just cut back some, slowly too, no cold turkey moves just in case your body is less ready for that than you thought.

Do you know if my tricyclic (clomipramine) might be interacting with the stims?

Yeah it's possible, but you didn't say which stims you're taking. They work via different mechanisms of action as discussed some above.

 

[Atomic_Decay]

When my psychiatrist prescribed me dexamfetamine he also prescribed me valium but told me not to use the valium to get to sleep if overstimulated at the end of the day.

For that purpose he prescribed my Clonidone 100 ug, which for prescription level stimulation worked fine.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

Benzos and amphetamine are an excellent combination in my opinion.
Depending on what dosage both substances are, they usually just reduce the jittery side-effects (such as anxiety and feeling "antsy") without dulling the stimulation too much.

For someone who's anxious, that relief also adds greatly to the euphoria IMO.

 

[unodelacosa]

I understand how amphetamine and cocaine do different things, but can one of you explain what makes the combination neurotoxic? And is it only neurotoxic if both are taken together? (ie. can you do amphetamines one day and cocaine a couple of days later?)

Ok so amphetamine-class drugs force a presynaptic release from nerve terminals of dopamine and, sometimes to a greater or lesser extent, serotonin. This induces monoamines to flood the synapses and spill out into other areas like the the cell cytosol which can induce oxidative damage when metabolized by monoamine oxidase. In fact, amphetamines are precursors to free radicals after metabolism by MAOb. They also decrease concentrations of antioxidant enzymes, and in animal studies reduce the expression of nerve growth factor and brain neurotrophic factor, making the brain more prone to damage, and potentially opening up a weakness to cocaine's action on dopamine (excess dopamine induces oxidative stress be generating reactive oxygen species).

Cocaine also affects glutamate which may mediate excitotoxic cell damage. Cocaine has also been shown to impair mitochondrial function by inhibiting mitochondrial respiratory chain complex I which may induce the activation of mitochondrial apoptotic pathways.

Basically cocaine on its own isn't neurotoxic unless you're really doing huge amounts and disrupting the dopamine system via excessive downregulation/upregulation periods. However, it's certainly cardiotoxic which is enough to worry about by itself, nvm neurotoxicity. Most likely, long-term abuse of cocaine is somewhat neurotoxic though. Meanwhile amphetamines on their own are neurotoxic from creating free radicals and oxidative stress on the brain and can be cardiotoxic when another source of tachycardia is added to it such as other stimulant drugs or heavy cardiovascular exercise.

IIRC, cocaine might induce antioxidant enzymes which might help attenuate the oxidation damage otherwise brought on by an amphetamine, but that's just conjecture for now. Regardless, combining the two certainly seems bad for the heart given how cocaine causes specific heart spasms which—when coupled with amphetamine-induced tachycardia—can cause micro-tears in the aortic tissues leading to valve problems and heart disease / cardiac events.

 

[luceluna]

Ok so amphetamine-class drugs force a presynaptic release from nerve terminals of dopamine and, sometimes to a greater or lesser extent, serotonin. This induces monoamines to flood the synapses and spill out into other areas like the the cell cytosol which can induce oxidative damage when metabolized by monoamine oxidase. In fact, amphetamines are precursors to free radicals after metabolism by MAOb. They also decrease concentrations of antioxidant enzymes, and in animal studies reduce the expression of nerve growth factor and brain neurotrophic factor, making the brain more prone to damage, and potentially opening up a weakness to cocaine's action on dopamine (excess dopamine induces oxidative stress be generating reactive oxygen species).

Cocaine also affects glutamate which may mediate excitotoxic cell damage. Cocaine has also been shown to impair mitochondrial function by inhibiting mitochondrial respiratory chain complex I which may induce the activation of mitochondrial apoptotic pathways.

Basically cocaine on its own isn't neurotoxic unless you're really doing huge amounts and disrupting the dopamine system via excessive downregulation/upregulation periods. However, it's certainly cardiotoxic which is enough to worry about by itself, nvm neurotoxicity. Most likely, long-term abuse of cocaine is somewhat neurotoxic though. Meanwhile amphetamines on their own are neurotoxic from creating free radicals and oxidative stress on the brain and can be cardiotoxic when another source of tachycardia is added to it such as other stimulant drugs or heavy cardiovascular exercise.

IIRC, cocaine might induce antioxidant enzymes which might help attenuate the oxidation damage otherwise brought on by an amphetamine, but that's just conjecture for now. Regardless, combining the two certainly seems bad for the heart given how cocaine causes specific heart spasms which—when coupled with amphetamine-induced tachycardia—can cause micro-tears in the aortic tissues leading to valve problems and heart disease / cardiac events.

Hi, thanks very much for this, and sorry for not replying for a few days. I'm not trying to nitpick or be difficult, but does your latest message contradict your original statement that cocaine/methylphenidate and amphetamines taken together are neurotoxic? I understand how they're cardiotoxic, and how they work against each other, but I can't quite follow all the science stuff that may explain how the combo is neurotoxic.

Also, now that we're discussing this, can I ask one more (probably subjective) question? How long should I wait between taking amphetamines and then taking cocaine in order for the latter to have an effect? In an ideal world, I wouldn't do this at all, but I am stimulant-dependent and I want to at least understand the chemistry so I don't just start wildly snorting everything in sight. Thanks.