Mental Health Depression NOT caused by low serotonin

[Mycophile]

I should really take the advice to heart that one has to spell everything out in this world.

The fields you are describing are psychology and psychotherapy. What i was talking about was how psychiatry is applied today.

For every person they help with meds, there are 20000 who didnt have a severe issue, but will have one along the road, thanks to the deus ex machina: medication.

You don't even have a reference point how it could have gone with medication free therapy, i have thousands of reference points through my work. My issue is not that medication is used, and no i did not in any way imply they were placebos, please read more carefully, my issue is that medication is used before medication-free treatment as a norm.

Fair enough, but no, I DO know how medication free therapy works, cause I had therapy since like age 5.

Like I said, my family is in the mental health field, so they were always on top of everything that was new and quick to try to help.

Therapy alone isn't going to make the kind of eye contact anxiety I have go away. There's just no way.

It would have to either be some kind of drug or something that positively affects the brain. For example, I tried neurofeedback, but that didn't work, but it does for some. Then there's Wim Hof breathing exercises and ice baths, and that can help, and so can exercise.

But it has to be something that works on the brain. Now yes, I know therapy can change the brain, but the kinds of talk therapy I had were not enough for me.

When it comes to these neurological type tics, I think something chemical is necessary, but it's too bad we don't get to see if psychedelics or breathing exercises or meditation or other things can work just as well, or at least psychedelics, which I believe should be legal and prescribed.

I wouldn't be surprised if shrooms or ibogaine or Ayahuasca or 5-Meo DMT could have helped me never need prozac. Too bad they are all shunned and illegal. And YES, I am in complete agreement that psychiatric meds are over prescribed and have done much damage. Hard to say if they've helped more than they've hurt because it comes down to MILLIONS of individual cases, but psychedelics are IMO probably more helpful, along with healthy diet, therapy, exercise, breathing exercises, etc.

 

[December Flower]

Fair enough, but no, I DO know how medication free therapy works, cause I had therapy since like age 5.

Like I said, my family is in the mental health field, so they were always on top of everything that was new and quick to try to help.

Therapy alone isn't going to make the kind of eye contact anxiety I have go away. There's just no way.

It would have to either be some kind of drug or something that positively affects the brain. For example, I tried neurofeedback, but that didn't work, but it does for some. Then there's Wim Hof breathing exercises and ice baths, and that can help, and so can exercise.

But it has to be something that works on the brain. Now yes, I know therapy can change the brain, but the kinds of talk therapy I had were not enough for me.

When it comes to these neurological type tics, I think something chemical is necessary, but it's too bad we don't get to see if psychedelics or breathing exercises or meditation or other things can work just as well, or at least psychedelics, which I believe should be legal and prescribed.

I wouldn't be surprised if shrooms or ibogaine or Ayahuasca or 5-Meo DMT could have helped me never need prozac. Too bad they are all shunned and illegal. And YES, I am in complete agreement that psychiatric meds are over prescribed and have done much damage. Hard to say if they've helped more than they've hurt because it comes down to MILLIONS of individual cases, but psychedelics are IMO probably more helpful, along with healthy diet, therapy, exercise, breathing exercises, etc.

My argument is: get your brain to get to where it needs by itself. Your body is a neurochemical laboratory. With the right ingredients and activities, your brain's health is secured. or lets say: it can get as healthy as physically possible for you. The medication works as long as you have medication, if you stop it comes back worse than ever, because your brain more and more relies on it.

Im sorry it's just my experience through work. I see so many people who got fucked up by meds every.single.day. im biased and it's a very emotional subject for me as well(see pn)

 

[Nurse Ratched]

My argument is: get your brain to get to where it needs by itself. Your body is a neurochemical laboratory. With the right ingredients and activities, your brain's health is secured. or lets say: it can get as healthy as physically possible for you. The medication works as long as you have medication, if you stop it comes back worse than ever, because your brain more and more relies on it.

Im sorry it's just my experience through work. I see so many people who got fucked up by meds every.single.day. im biased and it's a very emotional subject for me as well(see pn)

 

[Mycophile]

My argument is: get your brain to get to where it needs by itself. Your body is a neurochemical laboratory. With the right ingredients and activities, your brain's health is secured. or lets say: it can get as healthy as physically possible for you. The medication works as long as you have medication, if you stop it comes back worse than ever, because your brain more and more relies on it.

Im sorry it's just my experience through work. I see so many people who got fucked up by meds every.single.day. im biased and it's a very emotional subject for me as well(see pn)

I already live a very healthy lifestyle. Lots of exercise and intermittent fasting and a healthy diet.

But, that doesn't mean that I necessarily can have an OCD-anxiety free healthy brain without the prozac. I would like to believe I could, but if I tried to get off prozac and Klonopin my life would be a nightmare, and again, not only cause I'm dependent, but because my problems that they treat would come back because they were already there before I ever took these meds, and I was a perfectly healthy 14 year old kid who suddenly one day couldn't make eye contact or look at anyone without freaking out.

Like it or not, SOME PEOPLE need these medications, and I am probably one of them.

My life was unlivable before prozac. I had panic attacks in any social situation, and I wouldn't be able to work.

So if your choice is take an SSRI and be able to function, or don't take it and not, I'm taking it.

I respect your opinion to some extent, but it seems like you have only known people with negative side effects from meds and not all the people who had really bad conditions that were treated by their meds and who were then able to live better lives because of them.

You have to remember that those people also exist.

 

[Mycophile]

Yeah, agree all you want, but come talk to me when you have the issue I have and it won't go away without meds.

Sorry, I'm taking meds rather than wanting to hide in my house all day.

 

[December Flower]

I already live a very healthy lifestyle. Lots of exercise and intermittent fasting and a healthy diet.

But, that doesn't mean that I necessarily can have an OCD-anxiety free healthy brain without the prozac. I would like to believe I could, but if I tried to get off prozac and Klonopin my life would be a nightmare, and again, not only cause I'm dependent, but because my problems that they treat would come back because they were already there before I ever took these meds, and I was a perfectly healthy 14 year old kid who suddenly one day couldn't make eye contact or look at anyone without freaking out.

Like it or not, SOME PEOPLE need these medications, and I am probably one of them.

My life was unlivable before prozac. I had panic attacks in any social situation, and I wouldn't be able to work.

So if your choice is take an SSRI and be able to function, or don't take it and not, I'm taking it.

I respect your opinion to some extent, but it seems like you have only known people with negative side effects from meds and not all the people who had really bad conditions that were treated by their meds and who were then able to live better lives because of them.

You have to remember that those people also exist.

Ok you NEED to read more carefully.

I never said there's no merit in medication. I said that it should be used as a last resort, and not by what's psychiatric protocol these days:
Step 1: Shoot
Step 2: Reload
Step 3: Ask questions

I don't know your case, but i know countless cases where medication was used where none was ABSOLUTELY necessary.

Yes there are definitely cases where they are necessary. Was that the case with you? I don't know and im not even arguing about you

 

[Mycophile]

Ok you NEED to read more carefully.

I never said there's no merit in medication. I said that it should be used as a last resort, and not by what's psychiatric protocol these days:
Step 1: Shoot
Step 2: Reload
Step 3: Ask questions

I don't know your case, but i know countless cases where medication was used where none was ABSOLUTELY necessary.

Yes there are definitely cases where they are necessary. Was that the case with you? I don't know and im not even arguing about you

Ok, fair enough.

I just never heard you say that you ever thought medication was necessary for anyone.

Whatever the "last resort" is is kind of up to the patient and doctor to decide.

If someone's life feels unlivable, that's IMO a last resort. It's all subjective and dependent on the person.

Problem is, so many years on these meds and I don't know how I could ever even find out if I could function without them, because even if I made it through withdrawal chances are the problems would come back and i can't live with them.

I hope and believe I can get off Klonopin and caffeine, but the prozac? There'd probably need to be something else to replace it, and what would that even be that would be more healthy??

I feel if you had opened with "I think medications should be a last resort, but in some rare cases they are necessary" then we never would have gotten into this debate.

 

[December Flower]

Ok, fair enough.

I just never heard you say that you ever thought medication was necessary for anyone.

Whatever the "last resort" is is kind of up to the patient and doctor to decide.

If someone's life feels unlivable, that's IMO a last resort. It's all subjective and dependent on the person.

Problem is, so many years on these meds and I don't know how I could ever even find out if I could function without them, because even if I made it through withdrawal chances are the problems would come back and i can't live with them.

I hope and believe I can get off Klonopin and caffeine, but the prozac? There'd probably need to be something else to replace it, and what would that even be that would be more healthy??

I feel if you had opened with "I think medications should be a last resort, but in some rare cases they are necessary" then we never would have gotten into this debate.

Dont discuss with autistic people then. I have no filter, i write what i think, and i was very.clear about the fact that what i dislike about psychiatry is how they often administer drugs without even trying something else first.

I have also countless times said that i don't know your case and therefore cannot judge anything about it.

My argument was not about you, it was about creating drug dependancies, before even trying med-free. And that is standard practice

 

[Mycophile]

Dont discuss with autistic people then. I have no filter, i write what i think, and i was very.clear about the fact that what i dislike about psychiatry is how they often administer drugs without even trying something else first.

I have also countless times said that i don't know your case and therefore cannot judge anything about it.

My argument was not about you, it was about creating drug dependancies, before even trying med-free. And that is standard practice

Ok fine, but that all aside, IN THEORY...what do you believe is to be done for people whose brains may have become dependent on a lifetime of psychiatric medications, who may or may not need them for underlying conditions?

People like us, already pre-disposed to OCD, GAD, and even possible autism spectrum disorders (I have NVLD) already have issues, then we don't know if the drugs made them worse or not, but therapy alone isn't going to cut it at this point.

Now my anxiety is going, and I'm thinking my brain is fucked.

So imagine you are a doctor: what do you say to someone like me?

 

[December Flower]

Ok fine, but that all aside, IN THEORY...what do you believe is to be done for people whose brains may have become dependent on a lifetime of psychiatric medications, who may or may not need them for underlying conditions?

People like us, already pre-disposed to OCD, GAD, and even possible autism spectrum disorders (I have NVLD) already have issues, then we don't know if the drugs made them worse or not, but therapy alone isn't going to cut it at this point.

Now my anxiety is going, and I'm thinking my brain is fucked.

So imagine you are a doctor: what do you say to someone like me?

Since you told me it's 28 years you have been on the medication, i don't think anyone would suggest you to stop. Too dangerous

Jesus this was never about your case. It was about the fact that meds are administered like gummy bears in modern psychiatry

 

[Mycophile]

Since you told me it's 28 years you have been on the medication, i don't think anyone would suggest you to stop. Too dangerous

Jesus this was never about your case. It was about the fact that meds are administered like gummy bears in modern psychiatry

Yeah, and they are WAY over prescribed, but if you know anything about anxiety, which it seems like you probably do, you could imagine how someone could make something about them. Humans are often likely to consider how information pertains to their situation, and if they are pessimists like me, make the worst of it.

But now here's the part where I stop because there's no use in worrying about what you can't change, and there's probably plenty of things I actually can change.

It is what it is.

Take care.