ParappaTheRapper
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2012
- Messages
- 2,390
Both sides have benefits imo. I am personally pro decriminalization. Opinions? Discuss..
Decriminalization vs. Legalization Thread
- Thread starter ParappaTheRapper
- Start date
Mysterie
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- May 7, 2010
- Messages
- 4,541
umm, how can anyone prefer decriminalisation over legalisation? ? ? ? ?? ?? ???????? ????? ??????? ???????????? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
i had a friend in high school who said he wouldn't want weed to become legal because it would lose its underground 'cool' aspect of having to buy off of dealers and the thrill of it being against the law...
i had a friend in high school who said he wouldn't want weed to become legal because it would lose its underground 'cool' aspect of having to buy off of dealers and the thrill of it being against the law...
ParappaTheRapper
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2012
- Messages
- 2,390
whoa relax narc 8)
i agree there are pros and cons to both. Legalization- it would be nice not having to worry about getting in trouble for weed crimes, but in all reality when weed becomes legal there will still be weed crimes. Legalization comes with both taxation and regulation, it also opens to door for the market to become monopolized or at least very heavily dominated by a select few. Also, take Washington for example- I don't know exact numbers but from what I understand the amount of approved legal growers is much much smaller than the amount of growers that applied for it and legal prices are ridiculously inflated. I would think that something similar will happen to the legal weed market as is happening to organic food market, which is completely unfair and over regulation- organic farms being raided at gun point for selling raw milk. Literally.. watch "farmageddon" to see for yourself. To me, when I hear "legal" I hear "regulation".
I prefer decriminalization because it takes the most restraints off without putting new ones on. In california, under an ounce of weed is about the same as going 80 mph on the freeway. You may get a ticket, you may get a warning depending on the cop. I know quite a few people who have been let go after getting caught with weed and no charges or fines were pressed. In all practicality, decriminalization means it is still illegal but puts it on the back burner in the eyes of the law. Also, I think much of the underground stoner culture has to do with not so much the fact that it is illegal but the fact that you can not go to a store and buy it. You have to know someone or be self-sufficient. I think overall the stoner culture would become less independent and more commercialized if weed becomes legal. It takes away the only thing stoners have to fight for(lol).....
Really tho I think it is a bit hard to say. Ultimately which ever allows me to smoke better for less and be bothered about it as little as possible.
I prefer decriminalization because it takes the most restraints off without putting new ones on. In california, under an ounce of weed is about the same as going 80 mph on the freeway. You may get a ticket, you may get a warning depending on the cop. I know quite a few people who have been let go after getting caught with weed and no charges or fines were pressed. In all practicality, decriminalization means it is still illegal but puts it on the back burner in the eyes of the law. Also, I think much of the underground stoner culture has to do with not so much the fact that it is illegal but the fact that you can not go to a store and buy it. You have to know someone or be self-sufficient. I think overall the stoner culture would become less independent and more commercialized if weed becomes legal. It takes away the only thing stoners have to fight for(lol).....
Really tho I think it is a bit hard to say. Ultimately which ever allows me to smoke better for less and be bothered about it as little as possible.
Greyhounder
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 89
I believe in personal freedom and responsibility, I do not need someone else, particularly a self serving politician, making rules about how I should live my life. The state is not my nanny, I don't need babysitting, more rules never helps.
Egzoset
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2013
- Messages
- 1,371
Salutations Greyhounder,
Yet in the thirties there were individuals who thought this might "save" their children. One single picture is supposeD to be worth a thousand words isn't it?...
Too bad it fails to describe some real misery tha was eventually caused later, for no good reason but a simple lack of good faith and ignorance, fear. Whatever!...
In the meantime... What's got significantly better in a durable manner since the '30s exactly??
Euh... Not much i think!
Bu$ine$$ a$ u$ual.
Yet in the thirties there were individuals who thought this might "save" their children. One single picture is supposeD to be worth a thousand words isn't it?...
Too bad it fails to describe some real misery tha was eventually caused later, for no good reason but a simple lack of good faith and ignorance, fear. Whatever!...
In the meantime... What's got significantly better in a durable manner since the '30s exactly??
Euh... Not much i think!
Bu$ine$$ a$ u$ual.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2013
- Messages
- 2,616
Ok, for shits and giggles why not?
A politician seeking election came knocking at my door just after supper time tonight and asked if I had any concerns.
Me; Legalize Marijuana
Politician; Uhhhm I can see where you're coming from. Anything else Sir?
Me; No, legalize Marijuana and then we can start talking. Until then go away.
The rest of the conversation was polite and pretty short. I told them (and my opinion honestly is) that people die because Marijuana is illegal.
How long do we want to continue this mistake?
I will accept Oregon's proposed ballot initiative as a good start; 8 oz dried, home growing of 4 plants and a regulated market (commercial weed taxed $35/oz at production source).
You know that even though I'm medical I'd probably face jail time if I had a pound of pot at home. Fuck that. Thats 1.25 grams per day over a year; perhaps 3 joints or 4-5 bong rips.
I'm limited to 30 days worth of medical weed and yet I can have 365 days worth of my anti hypertensive medications - go figure.
Tom
A politician seeking election came knocking at my door just after supper time tonight and asked if I had any concerns.
Me; Legalize Marijuana
Politician; Uhhhm I can see where you're coming from. Anything else Sir?
Me; No, legalize Marijuana and then we can start talking. Until then go away.
The rest of the conversation was polite and pretty short. I told them (and my opinion honestly is) that people die because Marijuana is illegal.
How long do we want to continue this mistake?
I will accept Oregon's proposed ballot initiative as a good start; 8 oz dried, home growing of 4 plants and a regulated market (commercial weed taxed $35/oz at production source).
You know that even though I'm medical I'd probably face jail time if I had a pound of pot at home. Fuck that. Thats 1.25 grams per day over a year; perhaps 3 joints or 4-5 bong rips.
I'm limited to 30 days worth of medical weed and yet I can have 365 days worth of my anti hypertensive medications - go figure.
Tom
Egzoset
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2013
- Messages
- 1,371
Salutations Thomas Davie,
The last part hurts unless it's paid by health insurance. My theory so far has been that window sill plants should bring the cost down to about 2 $/g using 4~6 hours of complementary articifial light. Too bad in Harper land we're heading for a market strickly controlled by monopolies; possibly some day if we let them the zealots could as well ban anything that won't condense on film substrates meant for use in disposable/jettable "metered" dose vaporizers... At least we can see the manufacturers are willing and ready:
This should render us apprehensive, especially in Canada, because once the patients have their medecine there would be little incentive to relax and/or shut down the prohibition money grab. Knowing the dosage/composition are precise enough to avoid affecting congnitive functions that's exactly like declaring war to "recreative" use again! Not to mention there would be a 3rd-party interacting via encryption-locked software, quite likely at a distance, etc.
Briefly put it's advance but the potential for abuse by bigot governments just seems overwhelming, as they are the ones to blame for "whole plant" chops passed through nuclar radiation, to kill the filth before it's distributed to vulnerable ill persons! In my book that was close to being a hate crime in disguise, so i tend to watch for the next wave of attacks, but that's me.
By chance there's MiniPET coming to save us! Ah! Ah! Oh dear...
The last part hurts unless it's paid by health insurance. My theory so far has been that window sill plants should bring the cost down to about 2 $/g using 4~6 hours of complementary articifial light. Too bad in Harper land we're heading for a market strickly controlled by monopolies; possibly some day if we let them the zealots could as well ban anything that won't condense on film substrates meant for use in disposable/jettable "metered" dose vaporizers... At least we can see the manufacturers are willing and ready:
This should render us apprehensive, especially in Canada, because once the patients have their medecine there would be little incentive to relax and/or shut down the prohibition money grab. Knowing the dosage/composition are precise enough to avoid affecting congnitive functions that's exactly like declaring war to "recreative" use again! Not to mention there would be a 3rd-party interacting via encryption-locked software, quite likely at a distance, etc.
Briefly put it's advance but the potential for abuse by bigot governments just seems overwhelming, as they are the ones to blame for "whole plant" chops passed through nuclar radiation, to kill the filth before it's distributed to vulnerable ill persons! In my book that was close to being a hate crime in disguise, so i tend to watch for the next wave of attacks, but that's me.
By chance there's MiniPET coming to save us! Ah! Ah! Oh dear...
dankplantgrower
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2010
- Messages
- 488
I disagree with the poster advocating decriminalization who actually explained his position (Mafioso). Once the cannabis production is off the black market the crime factor will be limited. I dont see it as being any different than say Kratom or tobacco, which have never been forced onto the black market and never had any criminal stigma associated with them. Also with legalization your supply and demand example from Washington would be a moot point, when its legal production will increase at a homegrower scale as well as a flood of commercial interests trying to take your money. That means competition and competitive pricing. Or you could just grow your own cannabis for pennies on the dollar without fear of being imprisoned, like many I know.
Also weed has been legal for medical patients in the state we both live in for nearly 20 years, Compassionate Use Act was passed in 1996, and you CAN just walk into shops and buy it. Havent you ever seen a dispensary, commonly called a "weed clinic" in our state? Also your statement confounds me. "Its not so much that its illegal its that you have to know someone to get it, you cant just walk into a store and buy it. Weed culture will become less independent and more commercialized, taking away the only thing stoners have to fight for (LOL)." If you mean what I think youre getting at than the statement is completely out of touch with reality. Your understanding of cannabis culture, especially in CA, appears a bit tenuous. The majority of regular cannabis users end up getting a medical card to negate law interactions and can walk into any dispensary in the state whenever they want and buy weed. With due respect, your criticisms of weed legalization and support for decriminalization are a bit weak and lacking coherence. Im not a big fan of regulation but its not like the feds are going to be regulating every Average Joes garden, it will be the commercial enterprises they go after.
I stand for legalization. Some prime reasons are the diminishment of funding for violent drug cartels just 2 hours south of my border. These are organizations that routinely engage in kidnappings, human trafficking, illicit weapons supply, murder for hire, etc. The type of people who will shoot up rehabs in their territory to keep their "customers" from getting clean. Google the Vice article from March titled "Legal pot in the U.S. is crippling Mexican cartels." Cannabis used to supply 35-40% of their profits. Now it goes right into the pockets of our growers.
Another example is the simble obvious fact that no peaceful person should lose their freedom ever for growing a cannabis plant. The supply in CA has shifted away from criminal enterprise over the past couple decades to average Joe Enterpreneurs stepping up and providing for the community. Not gonna get into it as we've heard it a million times but the fact that we villify cannabis while simultaneously promoting truly dangerous substances like alcohol and tobacco is just such a tragedy on a grand scale. When weed is legal your average Joe or Jane will be much more inclined to start growing for themselves without fear of having their doors kicked in by law enforcement. Also take into account that weed alone makes up for nearly half of all drug arrests throughout the past 2 decades and its just a freakin benign plant that helps people mellow out. It is expensive to house incarcerated inmates and ties up our legal system for absolutely nothing. Law enforcement dealing with cannabis users should be out dealing with real crime in the community.
And there are PLENTY of people who absolutely depend on cannabis in a medical sense especially as they get on in years (arthritis and other pain, glaucoma, aiding cancer patients, etc), otherwise they would be being pumped full of opiates or other actual dangerous drugs by some script happy doctor. People get addicted to doctor prescribed opiates then move on to wretched poison like heroin and hard opiates all the fuckin time. Its truely sad when some of these people could just be taking a hit of cheap pot instead. Cannabis is also world famous for keeping addicts off harder drugs. If you need cannabis to take the edge off so your opiate cravings dont overwhelm you, then for godsake get this person a bong!
Last example in support of legalization (post is getting too long) would be the common sense opinion voiced in the 3rd or 4th post in this thread or so. We do not need self serving politicians dictating what we can and cant do with our own bodies, period. No explanation needed.
Also weed has been legal for medical patients in the state we both live in for nearly 20 years, Compassionate Use Act was passed in 1996, and you CAN just walk into shops and buy it. Havent you ever seen a dispensary, commonly called a "weed clinic" in our state? Also your statement confounds me. "Its not so much that its illegal its that you have to know someone to get it, you cant just walk into a store and buy it. Weed culture will become less independent and more commercialized, taking away the only thing stoners have to fight for (LOL)." If you mean what I think youre getting at than the statement is completely out of touch with reality. Your understanding of cannabis culture, especially in CA, appears a bit tenuous. The majority of regular cannabis users end up getting a medical card to negate law interactions and can walk into any dispensary in the state whenever they want and buy weed. With due respect, your criticisms of weed legalization and support for decriminalization are a bit weak and lacking coherence. Im not a big fan of regulation but its not like the feds are going to be regulating every Average Joes garden, it will be the commercial enterprises they go after.
I stand for legalization. Some prime reasons are the diminishment of funding for violent drug cartels just 2 hours south of my border. These are organizations that routinely engage in kidnappings, human trafficking, illicit weapons supply, murder for hire, etc. The type of people who will shoot up rehabs in their territory to keep their "customers" from getting clean. Google the Vice article from March titled "Legal pot in the U.S. is crippling Mexican cartels." Cannabis used to supply 35-40% of their profits. Now it goes right into the pockets of our growers.
Another example is the simble obvious fact that no peaceful person should lose their freedom ever for growing a cannabis plant. The supply in CA has shifted away from criminal enterprise over the past couple decades to average Joe Enterpreneurs stepping up and providing for the community. Not gonna get into it as we've heard it a million times but the fact that we villify cannabis while simultaneously promoting truly dangerous substances like alcohol and tobacco is just such a tragedy on a grand scale. When weed is legal your average Joe or Jane will be much more inclined to start growing for themselves without fear of having their doors kicked in by law enforcement. Also take into account that weed alone makes up for nearly half of all drug arrests throughout the past 2 decades and its just a freakin benign plant that helps people mellow out. It is expensive to house incarcerated inmates and ties up our legal system for absolutely nothing. Law enforcement dealing with cannabis users should be out dealing with real crime in the community.
And there are PLENTY of people who absolutely depend on cannabis in a medical sense especially as they get on in years (arthritis and other pain, glaucoma, aiding cancer patients, etc), otherwise they would be being pumped full of opiates or other actual dangerous drugs by some script happy doctor. People get addicted to doctor prescribed opiates then move on to wretched poison like heroin and hard opiates all the fuckin time. Its truely sad when some of these people could just be taking a hit of cheap pot instead. Cannabis is also world famous for keeping addicts off harder drugs. If you need cannabis to take the edge off so your opiate cravings dont overwhelm you, then for godsake get this person a bong!
Last example in support of legalization (post is getting too long) would be the common sense opinion voiced in the 3rd or 4th post in this thread or so. We do not need self serving politicians dictating what we can and cant do with our own bodies, period. No explanation needed.
Last edited:
harmacologist
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2014
- Messages
- 3,875
full scale legalization, regulation and taxation, quite like tobacco and alcohol.
I agree with you for the most part danplantgrower, but I think you misunderstand my argument. The part of my post that you quoted was meant mostly in jest. I don't really believe that stoners only have legalization to fight for, I hope you would be smart enough to realize that. Anyways, I still think you can't just walk into a pot shop and buy weed- not in the way you make it sound. Yes, you are right medical marijuana has existed within our state for over 20 years, but something you fail to mention is that to walk into one of these shops you must first get a recommendation from a doctor- oh and might I take this time to mention that LEGAL weed also has the HIGHEST prices pretty much garunteed? You never see weed going for $400 an ounce on the street, but check out the state who is leading the charge on legal weed- highest prices in the country. So no, legal weed does no mean lower prices what so ever. To say so would be a vast oversimplification of all the things that go into pricing beyond supply and demand- namely taxes and regulation. So as for your first argument of "competition means competitive pricing", THE WEED MARKET IS ALREADY FLOODED. Prices can only get so low before growers start dropping out. As with any commodity, when demand is over met, supply drops down to match...
Takes money away from violent drug cartels? I agree, and this is good- but in all reality I don't think it belongs in the topic of whether or not weed should be legal. Regardless of how much it impacts them, the violent cartels will still be there. How they will react is not for me to say, honestly, but I think the factors that drive people into a lifestyle of crime, violence, and gangs is ultimately a lack of resource and opportunity.
moving on. "No peaceful person should lose their freedom for growing a cannabis plant." Completely agreed there, couldn't have put it better myself. However, under the Compassion Use Act, that you mentioned, no peaceful and law-abiding citizen will be. A lot of local law enforcement abide by the county regulations regarding medical marijuana so if you are compliant- then there is no worry about law enforcement. And you mentioned the FEDs- well again like you say they only go after commercial grows. This is true, has been and probably will always be so. What won't be so is if lets say it goes legal and strict regulations are put into place, say regulations that are more strict that current medicinal use regulations are- local law enforcement will then become involved. The rest of this argument I agree with pretty much. Although, some food for thought- there are people in the US still bootlegging alcohol. Why? Regulations.
As for your third argument- that argument is an argument of pushing for medicinal use. Medicinal use and recreational use are two different argument. You can not say it should be legal to the general public because there are sick people who would benefit from its use. Unless you also believe that fentanyl should also be available for recreational use because it has medicinal uses.
And as for your last argument, I couldn't agree more. Having said that... it does seem a bit silly to be pushing for legislature whether for or against legalization either way. Again, argument has little to do with the subject.
To summarize- I don't think it should be illegal, and I am not directly opposed to having it legal. To put simply, I think it will be one of those things that you can not have your cake and eat it too. I do still believe that there is too much money involved in the enforcement and punishment of weed crimes for it to just simply "go legal". If it ever does go legal, it will more than likely be heavily regulated and heavily taxed. I guess having to pay tax would be better than having to serve time. Personally I think the removal of weed crimes(complete decriminalization) would be better than legalization for one reason: complete decriminalization means a truly unregulated and open market versus legalization which is reality is regulation and taxation. Like you say, it is a plant- why do there need to be any laws regarding its cultivation and use at all? I think if you look for them you can find examples of how true decriminalization really benefits the general public versus regulation/legalization. I suppose without supporting a black market of some form- regardless of how benign it may be, I would have to vote in favor of legalization if I wanted to be able to legally purchase weed. Of course, if you just removed the fear factor from growing weed you wouldn't need to be able to buy it from a store...
Takes money away from violent drug cartels? I agree, and this is good- but in all reality I don't think it belongs in the topic of whether or not weed should be legal. Regardless of how much it impacts them, the violent cartels will still be there. How they will react is not for me to say, honestly, but I think the factors that drive people into a lifestyle of crime, violence, and gangs is ultimately a lack of resource and opportunity.
moving on. "No peaceful person should lose their freedom for growing a cannabis plant." Completely agreed there, couldn't have put it better myself. However, under the Compassion Use Act, that you mentioned, no peaceful and law-abiding citizen will be. A lot of local law enforcement abide by the county regulations regarding medical marijuana so if you are compliant- then there is no worry about law enforcement. And you mentioned the FEDs- well again like you say they only go after commercial grows. This is true, has been and probably will always be so. What won't be so is if lets say it goes legal and strict regulations are put into place, say regulations that are more strict that current medicinal use regulations are- local law enforcement will then become involved. The rest of this argument I agree with pretty much. Although, some food for thought- there are people in the US still bootlegging alcohol. Why? Regulations.
As for your third argument- that argument is an argument of pushing for medicinal use. Medicinal use and recreational use are two different argument. You can not say it should be legal to the general public because there are sick people who would benefit from its use. Unless you also believe that fentanyl should also be available for recreational use because it has medicinal uses.
And as for your last argument, I couldn't agree more. Having said that... it does seem a bit silly to be pushing for legislature whether for or against legalization either way. Again, argument has little to do with the subject.
To summarize- I don't think it should be illegal, and I am not directly opposed to having it legal. To put simply, I think it will be one of those things that you can not have your cake and eat it too. I do still believe that there is too much money involved in the enforcement and punishment of weed crimes for it to just simply "go legal". If it ever does go legal, it will more than likely be heavily regulated and heavily taxed. I guess having to pay tax would be better than having to serve time. Personally I think the removal of weed crimes(complete decriminalization) would be better than legalization for one reason: complete decriminalization means a truly unregulated and open market versus legalization which is reality is regulation and taxation. Like you say, it is a plant- why do there need to be any laws regarding its cultivation and use at all? I think if you look for them you can find examples of how true decriminalization really benefits the general public versus regulation/legalization. I suppose without supporting a black market of some form- regardless of how benign it may be, I would have to vote in favor of legalization if I wanted to be able to legally purchase weed. Of course, if you just removed the fear factor from growing weed you wouldn't need to be able to buy it from a store...
Last edited:
something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread but was brought to my attention by another thread(inadvertently) is how industrial hemp was part of the recreational weed in colorado. If industrial hemp is included within the recreational weed legislature then I am in complete favor of it. Simply making weed available in store fronts is not enough- it already isn't really a crime to smoke it, not one punishable my even a misdemeanor charge, nor is it really in the hands of large crime syndicates. It's in the hands of people with medical cards for the most part, and imo that would even include much of the black market growers. Right now in the state live in, DEA and FBI are only going after large scale commercial growers anyways- both legitimate and illegitimate alike. Home grows only really get busted by local law enforcement and if it was illegitimate.
The way in which industrial hemp would affect current industries and the environment, as far as I understand, is for the positive- unless you are a current industry power. In all reality, industrial hemp is the reason that smoking weed is currently a crime if you ask me. There are far too many benefits of industrial hemp to sit here and list. If you don't believe it, do some of your own research. Regardless, there is no good reason for it to be illegal. Just wanted to bring that up.
The way in which industrial hemp would affect current industries and the environment, as far as I understand, is for the positive- unless you are a current industry power. In all reality, industrial hemp is the reason that smoking weed is currently a crime if you ask me. There are far too many benefits of industrial hemp to sit here and list. If you don't believe it, do some of your own research. Regardless, there is no good reason for it to be illegal. Just wanted to bring that up.