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Deaths Linked to Ayahuasca

FleetwoodMac

FleetwoodMac

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Joined
Nov 19, 2015
Messages
17
Heyo,

So I've been doing a lot of research into Ayahuasca and its healing powers and properties and am extremely intrigued. I have a relative who has gone through a lot in his lifetime, with a lifelong battle with epilepsy and the loss of his father at a young age. Now he has become the type to smoke weed daily, recklessly experiment with hardcore drugs at a very young age, demonstrate abusive behavior to his mother and other immediate family members, not turn up to school, and the list goes on. He lacks motivation and has no desire to fix his life, and will not admit that there is anything wrong with his behaviors. I am very close with this person and he is a very very good, strong, deep person, but he is a victim of circumstance. Due to his attraction to psychedelic substances and drugs, I believe that he would be willing to try Ayahuasca. I am aware that if he does decide to try this drug he will have to treat it with respect and will have to realize that it is not a party drug to be fucked around with, and I do believe he will come to this realization and still be willing to take it due to its potential to bring closure with the loss of his father, and maybe even the smallest chance that it could help to heal his epilepsy. The only problem is, that I have been reading about some deaths linked to the use of Ayahuasca and tobacco poisoning from Ayahuasca ceremonies. I am not sure if there is any fool-proof way to make sure that this does not happen to us during the ceremony or if it is preventable. I am just not sure if the ceremonies are safe. Most of the experiences I have read about have been positive, and I do believe that some of the deaths have been linked to pharmaceuticals mixed with the drug, but I was wondering if you guys think that these ceremonies are safe or a good idea. I was also wondering how long he would have to stay off of his epilepsy meds before trying Ayahuasca. Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks guys,
FleetwoodMac

Edit***
I would defs wait till hes older if we did do it. He refuses to do therapy.
 
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Going out in to the jungle (or even to some yoga studio downtown that does this shit on the DL) to have some random self proclaimed "shaman" does you with uncertain doses of powerful drugs in various combinations, while performing pagan ceremonies to invoke preternatural entities, what could go wrong? Yes most people make it out OK but there are a lot of risks, physical, mental, and spiritual. Better to dose in the home and in a therapeutic setting and with measurable doses of pure compounds. The whole ayahuasca scene is much shadier than the love and light vibe it likes to give off.

Which epilepsy meds? That's a worthwhile question and I'm not sure of the answer to, of course it depends on the meds but it might be very dangerous or a nonissue.

But the really dangerous and discomforting thing about the soi-disant shamanistic use of this stuff is you really don't know what you're getting and you're putting not only your dose but much of your set and setting in the hands of a stranger. I would never even in my wildest years of psychedelic excess dream of doing something like that.
 
You won't want to hear this, but ayahausca is not a magic bullet that will solve all your relative's problems. Yes, ayahausca is a very useful drug, but for everyone who's taken it and had a spiritual revelation, there's another who have left the ceremony and gone right back to shooting heroin and smoking crack and being a criminal. You've admitted yourself:

He lacks motivation and has no desire to fix his life, and will not admit that there is anything wrong with his behaviors
Click to expand...

If he does not want to change, and sees no reason to change, it is foolish to think that a dose of ayahuasca and suddenly he will see the error of his ways and become an upstanding citizen. Also, from your post, I'd guess that this relative is still quite young. Rather than taking him to a shaman to have an intense psychedelic trip and hoping that will fix his life, why don't you just try and be a positive role model? I understand the temptation in wanting a quick fix to your relative's problems - after all, a couple of days tripping in the jungle is a lot easier than spending months or even years trying to understand, empathize with & help him, but if you put in some actual work past just giving him a drug and hoping that does the trick, you have a higher chance of reaping the rewards without the inherent risks that I'm sure you've heard about (hospitalizations, death, triggering latent psychosis, depersonalization etc). Can I ask how old he is and what the relationship between the two of you is honestly like?
 
I have to agree with SKL on this one. Firstly, if your relative has a problem with drugs, more and crazier drugs will make it worse, not better. Secondly, I cannot in good conscience recommend one of these "ceremonies" to anyone, especially someone who is not healthy. They are completely unregulated, and their supposed benefits are completely unscientific.

I do not think DMT is inherently unsafe, and I do believe it will find medical applications at some time in the future. If and when that happens, however, an ayahuasca ceremony is not what it will look like.
 
Ibogaine might be very interesting, as it has dissociative aspects to it so there is probably less risk of catching a 'bad trip' with anxiety, fear etc. especially for those who have mental instability, it's considered to be more dream-like but as usual Your Mileage May Vary. Tends to get people off addictions too.

These things indeed need great care and the right set & setting, but then they are very powerful spiritual door openers that are notoriously overlooked by the majority of people. It's a huge sad step backwards in our seemingly so educated culture to prohibit and illegalize these tools that have been used for ages with great success. Maybe we wouldn't be where we are without brave shamans using psychedelics in ancient cultures ...

People are so great in putting stones onto every other's path.
 
I used ibogaine to help myself move past some tremendous hurdles in my life, most particularly (and the reason I took it) because of a longstanding opiate addiction. Of course, I was already very experienced with psychedelics and using them for beneficial purposes, and I had a huge desire to change. Because of these factors, I was able to really utilize its benefits... I wanted to see it as a therapeutic, medicinal experience, so I did. That's not to say it wouldn't have happened anyway, but you do read plenty of stories of people who things like this did not help, or even where they made it worse.

I think the biggest issue here is that your relative does not want to change or see a problem. That's really, truly the first step, and he has to take it on his own. All you can really do at this point is be there for him and try to set a good example.
 
I am aware that Ayahuasca is not going to fix all of his problems, but at this point if its safe it is worth a try. If there is the smallest chance that he will have a profound experience and have a desire to fix himself, then to me it's worth it.

Also, the truth is that he is older than me, but obviously still too young to be going down the path that he's on. He is sixteen and I am fifteen. I am the only one in the family that he can really confide in.
 
SKL said:
Going out in to the jungle (or even to some yoga studio downtown that does this shit on the DL) to have some random self proclaimed "shaman" does you with uncertain doses of powerful drugs in various combinations, while performing pagan ceremonies to invoke preternatural entities, what could go wrong? Yes most people make it out OK but there are a lot of risks, physical, mental, and spiritual. Better to dose in the home and in a therapeutic setting and with measurable doses of pure compounds. The whole ayahuasca scene is much shadier than the love and light vibe it likes to give off.

Which epilepsy meds? That's a worthwhile question and I'm not sure of the answer to, of course it depends on the meds but it might be very dangerous or a nonissue.

But the really dangerous and discomforting thing about the soi-disant shamanistic use of this stuff is you really don't know what you're getting and you're putting not only your dose but much of your set and setting in the hands of a stranger. I would never even in my wildest years of psychedelic excess dream of doing something like that.
Click to expand...

I am not entirely sure. I am aware of the shady ass Ayahuasca scene, more so than when I wrote the question. I'd probably have to do a LOT more research into a safe place to do it. Its just at this point if there is even a small chance that he could have a profound experience and be inspired to change, then it'd be worth it, so long as I knew he was safe.
 
I'd also add a lot of drugs can potentially lower the seizure threshold. DMT might, MAOIs will, datura type plants will. So ayahuasca may or may not be absolutely contradicted due to seizure hx. If not essential to stay on sz meds ... if ensured no interaction. My gut feeling, although this MUST be researched further, don't go on my gut, is that phenobarbital or other GABAergics would be fine, VPA probably wouldn't cause a problem but might diminish the experience, so too Lamictal probably, but standard disclaimer, not medical advice, do your own research and preferably consult a professional.
 
In all honesty I think 16 is too young for that kind of experience, especially if he doesn't want to change. There is a larger chance the less mature you are that a powerful psychedelic experience will cause negative repercussions in your life.
 
Oh I definitely missed the 16yo part. Way too young
 
Yeah, 16 year old brewing up Aya and on drugs with all sorts of problems...probably not going to help. High chance of it fucking him up really bad and him freaking out. Bad trips on aya are really bad. I've smoked DMT and no way would I want that to last for hours and I've tripped a few times. I'm sure you 'learn' a lot or something like that... feeling like that for so long but I don't think this is the right thing for someone so young.

He needs to find somebody to talk to that is a little bit older. Things aren't going to get better until he want to change and wants to get help. I would try and go the more traditional routes for something like this. Therapist might do the trick.
 
Please for the love of god, do not encourage him to take Ayahuasca. At that young of an age it could seriously fuck him up and do more damage than good. If you really care about him than you will find another way to get him help. Serious mind altering drugs are not going to be beneficial to him in any way.
 
Yeah, sorry, didn't know or read the age - it's definitely too early. I've had terrible experiences with dissociatives in this age (what could have been because it was DXM and this one happens to have a dark side to it in higher dosages) but also psilocybin and all was just too much for me to handle and understand. While I didn't go psychotic, it could easily have gone this way. These things need time to grow.

If you're desperate to try something, a low dosage of ketamine might be something that can give you a first imagination about what it's like, and while this depends on you and your setting of course, the dissociatives tend to be less anxiety-inducing in the end. But there's a good chance that it will be a frightening experience and the addiction potential is real too if one isn't prepared.
 
Yea, he has already dropped acid, done MDMA... He's gone down that path. Wouldn't really want him to take K, the more I read about that shit the scarier it seems.
 
i agree 16 is too young. also, you say hes already dropped acid, what makes you think aya would be so different? not tbat aya doesnt have more and different healing potentails than lsd, i think it does but i also think all psychedelics can be used this way. Ive always agreed with Leary and his crowd, that the set and setting determine the experience much more than the drug involved.

i myself have experienced a lot of healing with San Pedro and psilocybin mushrooms simply listening to native american peyote healing music while triipping or in the case of mushrooms, doing spiritual reading and listening to spiritual music while tripping. Leary gave psilocybin to a bunch of divinity students in a church listening to a great sermon and a high percentage of them experienced God. You see, it is the set and setting that matters.
 
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