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Crystal molly... How much should I take?

Dammit, I have an 80mg capsule with me and I'm tempted to drop it alone at home. I've never done it outside a rave and I'm really curious how a small dose like this would work out. But I did roll on NYE so it's out of the question, I'm pretty sure I have some tolerance too... :/
 
I wasn't aware that Molly referred to other drugs besides MDMA. My bad :)

I'll definitely try waiting longer to redose next time. I have to wonder too if I have a tolerance from taking methylone so many times which caused my shorter peak. I am going to wait until this summer before I roll again. I actually plan on hippie flipping for the first time which I'm really excited about..
 
That's enough time to loose any tolerance. I'm sure it's going to go fine :)

Molly doesn't refer to specific substances as it may seem from what I wrote. The problem is that most people who use it have no idea what they've got (dealers included). It's an umbrella term for "some crystal/powder that should make me roll" and most of the time it turns out to be something other than MDMA (mostly methylone). So while it's not exactly incorrect to use it, it's not recommended :)
 
Black said:
are you implying that an acetone wash would remove the HCl part? it doesn't. if you're left with only 80% of your weight, then there were impurities inside (or you didn't use anhydrous acetone). HCl isn't an impurity, it's part of the crystal structure.

and +1 to all dose recommendations being MDMA·HCl
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Nope. I wasn't stating that the acetone wash gets rid of .HCL part. If that's how it was understood, my apologies.

The idea was that one can't really know how cut the stuff is. If one does the Acetone wash, optimally one should get quite near to theoretical max (84% ). Now, there is always room for error when one is not a lab technician, working in a lab with lab quality ingredients, so the end result most likely is bit shy from 84%. But certainly, if one does not totally screw up, 80% should be doable.
And it's nicer number to do the math in ones head. Multiplying by 0.8 is easy (times ten, just take 20% off..) and dividing by 0.8 is easy too (just add 25% ).

And yeah, without the .HCL part the stuff wouldn't be water soluble, it would not get into your blood circulation etc. So the .HCL is there for a good cause :).
 
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If one does the Acetone wash, optimally one should get quite near to theoretical max (84% )
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You're misinterpreting something here. After an acetone wash the theoretical max is 100% not 84%. 100% pure MDMA.HCL will consist of 84% freebase MDMA and 16% HCL hence why 84% is the maximum amount of MDMA you can successfully consume as a human in one single molecule and so therefore it's effectively 100% pure. So there's really no need to times by .8 or anything since that will just make your dose higher than the recommended which takes all of this into account and bases it's guidelines on 100% pure MDMA.HCL.
 
JWills20 said:
You're misinterpreting something here. After an acetone wash the theoretical max is 100% not 84%. 100% pure MDMA.HCL will consist of 84% freebase MDMA and 16% HCL hence why 84% is the maximum amount of MDMA you can successfully consume as a human in one single molecule and so therefore it's effectively 100% pure. So there's really no need to times by .8 or anything since that will just make your dose higher than the recommended which takes all of this into account and bases it's guidelines on 100% pure MDMA.HCL.
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He is a bit unclear, but I think the only thing he is misinterpreting is the dosage recommendations. The dosage recommendations are for MDMA-hcl, not freebase MDMA, and therefore as you say - no need to recalculate dosage after wash.

I test my batches with purity-test (after it's passed the other tests), and recalculate my dosage after that. I don't know how good the test actually is, but personally I think it works ok to give you a guideline.
 
I really hate the whole 84% pure mdma thing....why the hell don't we do this for any other drug....calling totally pure drug X % pure where X is molec mass/ (molec mas + 36).....i really hate how out of hand this way of referring to mdma has gotten.

it causes so much confusion among people
 
yeah
its like
the chemistry behind the 84% pure nonsense is the same in theory with speed, cocaine, heroin, every other fucking drug.
 
It's important to know because the 100-200 mg in a pill is freebase weight. So 100 mg of pure hcl is not the same as a 100 mg pill. No one will have pure freebase as it remains an oil or else just doesn't become solid from my knowledge.

If you look on most pharmaceutical medications they list the freebase and salt weight somewhere that makes the total weight of a salt bound compound that's used.
 
tacodude said:
It's important to know because the 100-200 mg in a pill is freebase weight. So 100 mg of pure hcl is not the same as a 100 mg pill. No one will have pure freebase as it remains an oil or else just doesn't become solid from my knowledge.

If you look on most pharmaceutical medications they list the freebase and salt weight somewhere that makes the total weight of a salt bound compound that's used.
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Can anyone confirm this? I think it sounds weird that 100 mg MDMA in a pill is 100 mg MDMA-freebase.
 
luxray said:
Can anyone confirm this? I think it sounds weird that 100 mg MDMA in a pill is 100 mg MDMA-freebase.
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Yup, you're right. A 200mg MDMA pill will contain 200mg MDMA.HCl, not 200mg freebase MDMA. All dosage guidelines found online and provided by test centers are for MDMA.HCl. Some test centers mention MDMA.HCl specifically, though most just say MDMA. It's always MDMA.HCl weight though, if there's no freebase MDMA in a pill, you're not going to get freebase weight from gc/ms, MDMA.HCl is a molecule, it is not two seperate things and thus it is measured as one molecule, not two seperate molecules
 
I guess I don't know much.... I swear somewhere I've read that pill weight is freebase. I could see this as it's not hard to weigh a large amount of freebase oil to mix and press into pills while weighing individual freebase doses would be ridiculous if it was ok. Anyways I can admit being wrong, but I was originally explained that by someone else so it was not my opinion alone.

Edit : Someone on another board pointed out pills might be bound with heavier salts so instead of 200 mg lab tested working out to 160 about it works out closer to 100 mg as labs can't tests what salt it is bound to... Just interesting
 
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I don't know of any dosing guidelines or recommendations that use freebase MDMA. It just makes no sense since the vast majority of MDMA consumed by humans is HCL.

Someone on another board pointed out pills might be bound with heavier salts so instead of 200 mg lab tested working out to 160 about it works out closer to 100 mg as labs can't tests what salt it is bound to... Just interesting
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We had some discussion before regarding different salt bindings. I think the general consensus is that this rarely ever happens (I don't know why) and talk of it occurring is usually just speculative rumours.
 
I think most anything is thanks to the damn drug war... I understand some things are more accepted than others, but without an accepted library of information on this stuff is made even saying all pills are hcl crystal or represented as hcl weight. Even if it's mostly true with lots of scattered evidence
 
JWills20 said:
We had some discussion before regarding different salt bindings. I think the general consensus is that this rarely ever happens (I don't know why) and talk of it occurring is usually just speculative rumours.
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HCl is easily available, easy to use and less nasty than HBr or something. if a compound forms a nice stable salt with HCl there isn't really a for using anything else. amphetamine only comes as sulfate because the HCl salt is hygroscopic and for 2c-b you'll already be working with HBr in the last step of the synthesis so you'll get the HBr salt for free.

the numbers of our local pill testing center are definitely for MDMA·HCl and pressing pills with the freebase is certainly less practicable and more expensive than making the salt first.
 
There was a batch of pills discovered in I believe South-Korea that had the sulfate form of MDMA in them. I believe it was MDMA.H2SO4. but I'm not sure, it's been a while since I read that analysis. I believe it was a scientific study done on the contents of pills confiscated in South-Korea. If anyone's interested I could try to find it tomorrow when I have some time. IIRC the rate of MDMA weight vs H2SO4 weight was 1:1 so it was a heavier salt than MDMA.HCl, but again I'm not sure about all of this :D in any case labs can test and determine what salt form it is
 
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