Codeine versus Buprenorphine

[d3Xo-fan]

I've decided to get clean. I don't want to be forced to take and opioid several times a day and I don't fancy travelling across town just to get these medications.

I used to take 0.8mg bupe a day and that would keep the wd's at bay. I then chose to switch to codeine because of how much weaker it is and how much shorter the half life is. Do you think this was a wise decision? What would you do?

Since I switched to codeine, which was a few weeks ago, I've experienced withdrawals twice, quite possible because of the short half life. I take 50 - 100mg codeine a day and I plan to slowly lower the dose. I have been on opioids for years.

Now that you have this background info, I have three questions for you:

1) What would you do?
2) What would your taper plan be?
3) Which drug would you choose? Bupe or Codeine?


If you need more info, feel free to say so.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Anon54]

I to am sort of addicted to codeine. Ive had 80mg oxycontin today & after a meal it doesnt seem that much stronger than codeine so i can understant why it's hard to stop taking but unlike benzos its not dangerous to quit
I to at one point was dosing codeine twice a day.
if u really wanna get clean just taper the codeine for a few days. it's easier than quitting smoking. I think bupes more for quitting stronger opiates.
if u'r experiencing stomach problems try a proton pump inhibitor which stops the production of acid in ya stomach such as Nexium.
but some otc promethazine to help ya sleep at night too its a sedating antihistamine & weak antipychotic. its actually quite strong.
Im trying to quit codeine myself. it's stopped working. when ive tried to quit codeine before it hasnt been to hard.
stay away from alcohol & try not to smoke cigarettes if u smoke because they can give u headaches & make ya wanna take pain killers. also try to drink alot of tea. not alot of coffee.
i dont think ya dr will script ya bupe for codeine & if u tell ya dr ya take codeine u may not be able to get painkillers or benzos if ya need them.
valium would be a big help but only taken for a week. good luck. feel lucky it's only codeine u have a problem with.
I find the hardest thing with quitting painkillers is alot of ppl who take them actually get headaches & stuff & it's self medicating for underlying pain problems.
do u take any other drugs? especially alcohol like i said before will give u headaces.
all that codeine cant be good for ya stomach. u'll start to get acid reflux or something. its a pretty strong bitter drink.
codeine is mostly psychological man unless u have an underlying problem that is causing u to get headaches or something. like i said im to trying to quit codeine. but i wont be tapering or anything like that. i dont think it's really nessasary. maybe have some apap if u get a little pain but not more than 1g a day id reccomend.

 

[ChaosBuild3]

I agree with anon, if bupe is for a strong opiate detox. I tell everyone i can this. Have a goal in mind, something you can work towards I always tell people physical exercise. Thats how i quit pretty much cold turkey off strong opiates. It helps wear your body out so you can get some sleep, and its a goal that keeps your mind focused and not being bored. Boredom is the worst thing for you right now. My goal was to compete in a race like the tough mudder and the spartan race. This really worked for me so i try and tell anyone i can about it. I hope this helps man, i wish you the best of luck.

 

[d3Xo-fan]

Thank you both of you for your replies, I will definitely take them under consideration. But evidently I did not provide enough background info. I have been addicted to heroin more than once, and been on methadone for months. Then bupe, then methadone, then bupe, and so on... Now codeine. My addiction has lasted years; I'm not using codeine for pain, I'm using it for withdrawals. I missed a dose of 25mg codeine a few days ago and totally flipped out when I got the withdrawals; they were so severe I took more than 100mg codeine, even though half of that would probably have been sufficient.

So my question is really this: which is better? To stay on 0.8mg bupe a day and taper further down, or taper down from 50mg codeine. I know promethazine and I have both nitrazepam and flunitrazepam available at the moment (yay!). An elaborate taper plan would be very much appreciated! I was planning to get some Imodium for the diarrhea and obviously benzos for the other symptoms. For sleep I have seroquel, not that it works much since I seem to have a tolerance (200mg doesn't really do anything anymore).

But again, thank you very much, both of you!

 

[oatmeal cookie]

IMO I would stick with the bupe if you really wanna quit. I'm assuming you've taken subs long enough to be addicted to them as well so I would stick to a slow taper program off the subs until your down to ~0.1mg and then jump off from there. It will hold you longer in between doses to where you won't have any wd's between dosing. But that's just my opinion. Maybe every one or two weeks drop down ~0.1-0.2 mgs of bupe and you should be fine

 

[Pegasus]

If you're already at 50mg codeine, I'd just continue to taper that. If you do decide to switch to bupe, make sure it is for only a very short period or you'll extend the withdrawal period considerably.

 

[nsauce]

I recently detoxed off of 8mg bupe daily after 18 months. I did a fairly rapid taper, and jumped off at 2mg. I would not recommend this for ANYONE. It SUCKED . If I had to do it again, I would switch over to a shorter acting opioid, staying on the shorter acting opioid for a few weeks, then taper off that. The w/d's from a shorter acting opioid will not drag on and on for months like the w/d's from bupe did for me .

 

[d3Xo-fan]

See, that's the problem. To me they both make sense. Quick and intense withdrawal or slow and slightly less intense withdrawal. I have to admit though, even though I'm at 0.1-0.2mg bupe a day, which I've been several times, I still get withdrawals when skipping my dose. That's why I'd like a very detailed taper plan that fits my exact situation. I don't know if that's too much to be asking for, but it would really help. Today I've only taken 0.4mg bupe, and I think I can make it until tomorrow without taking the other 0.4mg. Man this sucks. Sometimes I fantasize about a syringe full of naloxone and a huge amount of benzos... Bye bye, addiction. (Un)fortunately that's not an option.

But you can see how I'm in a pickle when one of you says stick with bupe and the other says stick with codeine

nsauce, you posted while I was typing my own post, so I didn't see it. I would never jump from 8mg to 2mg, but I think it's admirable that you did it. Did the wd's really last months? I mean, bupe has a long halflife, but for months? They most have gradually gotten better each day, right? The withdrawals I mean. To be in withdrawals of the same intensity for months must make you... well, nuts I'd say.

 

[nsauce]

Ah. Here you go, a really good guide for you : http://www.heroin-detox.com/detoxin...4189-buprenorphine-sub-questions-answers.html

 

[d3Xo-fan]

nsauce, that was just what I needed, thanks! I have a question, however. I used to be on bupe for weeks or months. Then I switched to oxycodone and then codeine, which means it's perhaps over a months since I last touched bupe, except for today where I took 0.4mg. Does this mean I'm not 're-addicted' to bupe and that the bupe wd's will be shorter because I used different opioids for some time?

 

[d3Xo-fan]

Since there has been no replies since my last post, I'm going to write what I've done. I wouldn't call this "bunking" the thread (or whatever you call it) since it's only a few days old.

I took 0.4mg bupe sometime in the (after)noon yesterday. I have still not felt any withdrawals, but I expect they'll show up soon. Therefore I have bought 3 bananas (laugh all you want, but I've heard a healthy diet, meaning plenty of vitamins, should help the withdrawals). I will also stay plenty hydrated.

Earlier today I took 12mg flunitrazepam and 6mg alprazolam. I dunno if that's why the wd's haven't shown yet, but I have a huge stash of seroquel which I intend on using to knock myself out when they do appear.

So, what do you think of this plan? I have taken absolutely no opioids, opiates, or... well, those are the only two that counts xD

 

[nsauce]

It will take a while for the w/d's to show up in force. The halflife of bupe is really long. The benzos will help ALOT. I think at this point, 12mg flun and 6mg alp is going pretty far . If you don't have a huge benzo tolerance, I'd back off until you really need them. My w/d's didn't get bad until days 3-5 after my last dose . Clonodine will also help. Yes, drink plenty of fluids, bananas are good, I had some days where i really didn't feel like eating. Good luck !

 

[charlesr]

OK. I know this is an old thread, but maybe you are still looking for answers. I was on 150mg Codeine for 6 years. I reduced by 12.5mg for two days in a row & then stayed on the same dose for two days:

Day 1: 150mg
Day 2: 137.5mg
Day 3: 125mg
Day 4: 125mg
Day 5: 112.5mg
Day 6: 100mg
Day 7: 100mg
...

You can see the pattern here. This is a very effective taper.

Take half the daily dose at 10AM in the morning and the other half, at 6PM.

Optional:

At 75mg codeine, you could switch to 0.4mg bupe, and taper from here, although it is quite hard to cut up Subutex, due to its size.

I actually did this, because my codeine tablets were mixed with ibuprofen, and the latter was giving me a stomach ulcer.

But, to be honest, I think it is easier to stick with the codeine to the end, because it is shorter acting.

The other things to do:

No processed sugar
No wheat
No diary
Lots of fruit, rice, pulses vegetables, even fish is OK.
Peppermint tea. No coffee

No alcohol

Cigarettes/tobacco [no weed] are fine.
Give yourself a break!
One vice is justifiable otherwise you will tear your hair out.

The biggest enemy during 'withdrawal' is BOREDOM.

So, exercise is key.
Walk at least 2 hours a day or swim or whatever you enjoy.
Yoga also helps before bed.
It is a much better sedative than pills.

No Valium, psychotics or benzodiazepines.
This just reinforces addiction.

Good luck, my friend.

Trust me. This works...

 

[Ilove2nod]

Codeine would probably be a good drug to use to get off of weak opioid habits, since it is like the weakest opioid there is, or one of them at least.. like someone addicted to taking relatively low doses of oxy or hydrocodone, it would probably work great as a taper drug. But for heavy opioid addicts to heroin and strong pharms like Opana or dilaudid, or high dose oxy.. Bupe and methadone are good.. I am on bupe maintanence and have no idea how I would have ever gotten off of dope without it.. I tried the cold turkey route, but failed everytime! I was heavily addicted to pharm opioids and heroin both, and bupe was the only thing that helped me get off of them. I don't think I could have done it with codeine.. I don't think at this point in time either that as long as I have been taking bupe, codeine would help me get off of that either when I am ready. My city is flooded with heroin and pharms like oxy and dilaudid, and if I were to try and stop using bupe, there is no doubt in my mind after 2-3 days of those awful buprenorphine wd's I would relapse.. again on dope. codeine just wouldn't be able to cut it for me.