Opioids Codeine - addiction, tolerance and large doses

[guy1234]

Hello guys

I've been reading a little about others experience with codeine as well as the pharmacology.

For background have been a habitual user for about 18 months (one large dose in the evening every 1-3 days). As expected tolerance has shot through the roof in that time.

My confusion lies in claims that taking doses over 400mg are a waste of time and also that doses over this are somehow heroic/dangerous etc.

Due to tolerance my last CWE dose was 156 tablets of neurofen plus (12.8mg codeine vs 200mg ibuprofen). This is a total of 1,996.8mg of codeine. Even at 50% yield that is around 1g of codeine. Not only did this still get me high but no adverse effects. Similar dose and response from my partner.

Surely any codeine addict must reach this kind of dose and likely higher quite quickly (I only take one dose per time and not every day) and yet all I can find are reports of people maxing out on 500mg and calling it a crazy dose.

Am I missing a detail here? Are there any current or ex addicts who have this fairly standard dose/response curve with this drug. Standard in that as tolerance grows, increasing doses are needed to get high and on the flip side those doses will not be dangerous due to tolerance.

From what I've read on this forum other people seem to say that regardless of tolerance you can never take more than aro 4-500mg and after that you're either crazy/suicidal or its a waste of time. If this was the case then codeine addiction would surely not exist as:

A) your morphine conversion would halt after even a small tolerance is built and you would lose the best effects

B) the other metabolite of codeine which is psychoactive (forget the name) wouldn't be enjoyed for much longer as apparently high doses are in some way dangerous in some fashion that isn't clear beyond other opiates.... (perhaps histamine release? Which i barely get even at higher doses and my partner rarely and never severely)

Sorry for waffle just need a check here that I'm not crazy

 

[kaosisallwesee]

I spent a decade addicted to codeine and never really went about 500mg 3 times a day. Any more and I wouldn't notice an increase in positive effects, but I would experience a severe histamine response. It was just a waste. If it's at the point where 500mg doesn't work either decide whether you want to switch to DHC/stronger opioids or quit altogether. I will warn you if you decide on stronger opioids it's a slippery slope, especially seeing where you've gone with codeine. How much does that cost you?! Must be over 20 quid a dose with the cost of neurofen plus. Maybe you would be better off ordering some oxy or DHC...

 

[guy1234]

Thanks for reply, the thing is that this large a dose DOES still get me high. Either I'm sensitive to the other metabolite or the morphine ceiling isnt as sure a thing as it is reported to be. Also I experience minor itching on any dose but this doesn't increase with dosage. However I am not an allergy prone/reactive person to pretty much anything. However even my partner (who is allergic to everything under the sun, even my stubble gives her hives) still only gets some itching and a very minor and short lived rash once and she's on a comparable dose.

I greatly enjoyed DHC when I have done it on occasion but have no source for pure tablets. Also am aware that tolerance between the two is virtually identical meaning I'd just need to CWE unholy amounts of that instead (the dosage per OTC pill of DHC is lower which cancels out some of the extra potency gain). Plus there is no ibuprofen mixed medication. I prefer ibu in CWE due to it being almost entirely insoluble in water (like 21mg per litre or something stupid like that), meaning I can make a more dilute solution with more water, thereby making it more efficient (ie any water lost in the process has a lower concentration of codeine)

Regarding other opiates, I agree it would be more efficient to just grab some proper pills. I used heroin several times back in my IV days, tramadol, ODMT, AH-7921, oxy (only a small dose). But unfortunately with the online market virtually collapsing and not being connected to any real opiate users anymore as well as moving from my home town means that I can't really get hold of anything besides your bog standard MDMA, coke, some psychedelics etc

Oh and yeah its costing me about £40 a pop lol, literally bankrupted myself for an inferior opiate

 

[kaosisallwesee]

I'd argue that you'd feel the same on a much smaller dose. Sure everyone has different enzyme levels, but I doubt it would be so hugely different that you could metabolise 2g of codeine. Spend the same on paramol (dhc), and you'll see how much more potent it is. In fact I'd assume 2g of DHC is enough to be dangerous to a lot of users of stronger opioids. I'd also argue theyre nowhere near equipotent with dhc being around 2x as potent by weight. But in saying that codeine used to make me feel good too, now no amount will feel as good as a moderate dose of dhc Tolerance crosses over amongst all opioids, if you're tolerant to one you're tolerant to them all. But I reckon your tolerance is far lower than you think and a lot of your dose is being wasted. Try 600mg of codeine and tell me you really feel that much difference.

 

[guy1234]

Hmm interesting. Just to clarify I understand that DHC is not equipotent to codeine. More that once you've adjusted for potency the tolerance will be similar.

It's a good suggestion though, I'll give 3-400mg of DHC (paramol cwe) a shot and see what happens

 

[Tramalala]

Honestly I've never noticed this ceiling effect with codeine either. Or this other "myth" that you can't redose codeine on the same day. Both have been completely untrue for me. I definitely could go higher than 400mg and notice a better and stronger high. Now I don't think I've ever pushed it as high as 2000mg of codeine, but I'm pretty sure I've been over 1000mg more than once, not in 1 dose but spread over an evening. I suppose there might be some truth to these things, some people just have a better liver for things like this. I also metabolize tramadol much better than most people, which uses the same enzymes as codeine I believe.

 

[Ganjcat]

doses above 400mg are not a waste of time if you have the right enzyme I used to take 3000mg doses tho was very dangerous and stupid and the withdrawals were horrid

 

[kaosisallwesee]

doses above 400mg are not a waste of time if you have the right enzyme I used to take 3000mg doses tho was very dangerous and stupid and the withdrawals were horrid

Didnt you stack your doses? I maybe thinking of someone else, but I remember someone referring to those kind of doses, adamant that redosing little and often was the way to go with codeine.In my experience this hasn't worked, I end up with an initial mild effect from the first dose and feel almost nothing from subsequent doses. Just wasting codeine. For 95% of people it's a single dose every 4 or 5 hours minimum and any more than 600mg just increases side effects if anything. Again IME, everyone's different, but I couldn't deal with over 600mg with a heavy tolerace. Itd make my lips swell, itch myself raw, get an extremely flushed face, all round no fun even with an antihistamine. If you need more than that just stop or get a better drug. As I said try paramol, you'll be surprised. I'd say start small but I'll let you judge it. It's not just stronger by weight, the quality of the high is so much better with dhc.

 

[Ganjcat]

Didnt you stack your doses? I maybe thinking of someone else, but I remember someone referring to those kind of doses, adamant that redosing little and often was the way to go with codeine.In my experience this hasn't worked, I end up with an initial mild effect from the first dose and feel almost nothing from subsequent doses. Just wasting codeine. For 95% of people it's a single dose every 4 or 5 hours minimum and any more than 600mg just increases side effects if anything. Again IME, everyone's different, but I couldn't deal with over 600mg with a heavy tolerace. Itd make my lips swell, itch myself raw, get an extremely flushed face, all round no fun even with an antihistamine. If you need more than that just stop or get a better drug. As I said try paramol, you'll be surprised. I'd say start small but I'll let you judge it. It's not just stronger by weight, the quality of the high is so much better with dhc.

yes yes I'm so sorry I can't believe I forgot to mention that.. It's been so long yes I did stack and in fact found I had the best results doing that I would take about 240mgs to start and after that is starting to effect me which could be minutes or hours depending on your metabolism you take another 150-300mg depending on tolerance and so on if you keep on stacking make sure you have some emergency promethazine, certirizine, benadrly etc because at those doses you can get dangerous histamine reactions I'm not talking about an annoying itch I'm talking.about red marks all over your body with evil itches and other stuff I have done this twice by accident and it was horrible...

 

[guy1234]

Hmm these days do we have a definitive answer on whether (and if so to what extent) codeine "inhibits" itself? Have personally never bothered trying to redose with any meaningful quantity as assumed it was a waste of time?

 

[Tramalala]

Hmm these days do we have a definitive answer on whether (and if so to what extent) codeine "inhibits" itself? Have personally never bothered trying to redose with any meaningful quantity as assumed it was a waste of time?

Redosing definitely works for me but like @kaosisallwesee said it's probably up to how your body metabolizes the drug. For me, now that I think about it, I achieved the best highs after redosing. It's probable this doesn't work like this for most people, so experiment!

 

[guy1234]

Hmm just got hold of a strip of codeine phosphate tablets and a bunch of 30/500 cocodamol so may test the redosing theory and the "you could do less and get just as high" theory

 

[Tramalala]

Hmm just got hold of a strip of codeine phosphate tablets and a bunch of 30/500 cocodamol so may test the redosing theory and the "you could do less and get just as high" theory

Let us know how it goes! I'm jealous though, wish I could still get codeine phosphate tablets.

 

[guy1234]

Haha bit the bullet and just ordered them online. Surprisingly reliable.

So did about 400mg less than normal and got nicely high. I think more to do with neurofen plus being wildly inefficient with regards to giving up its codeine as I know with that if I take less than I was taking I wouldn't get anything from it. Seems extracting from APAP works much better for some reason? Either way still doubt that I have a ceiling that which it isnt worth going above as my overall dose was still around 900mg

Reposing while high seemed to work but may have been placebo. Definitely worked several hours later.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Just had my tiny journey into codeine life. I could see why it's addictive but honestly it definitely misses some key highways that oxycodone (and definitely heroin) has. Could just be my metabolism though or tolerance to things in general. I've got to be honest I don't like codeine really.

Then again codeine and heroin had the exact same effect on me weirdly enough : Opiate body and mind high with zero euphoria. Very unique and I've never heard anyone say anything like that. Personally speaking if the drug doesn't blast away my problems I see no reason for it in my life, lol... Hope you guys have fun on it (or kill your pain with it?)! Suppose I'll just go back to pretending I don't have a substance abuse problem and be clean here and there. Maybe.