Benzos Clomethiazole; What Dose should I use And is it Safe enough 4 use
- Thread starter Thomas29
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FLEXURE
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Hello "Thomas29".
It sounds like you're on the right track by looking for a "longer acting" benzodiazepine, if you are attempting to help ease the withdrawal symptoms associated with stopping Etizolam. (Note: Etizolam is, as you might already be aware, is a Benzodiazepine Analog. Without getting into all of the Pharmacology involved, it differs somewhat from being strictly a Benzodiazepine, although it may be used for some of the same symptoms of Anxiety and/or Panic Disorders, Etc.)
Before attempting to give you what might be any "half-baked" answers or suggestions, it might help to know if you're doing this under any kind of medical supervision, your dosage, how long you've been on the Etizolam, your weight (?), what you have readily available to take for these withdrawal symptoms, etc.
My "Gut Reaction" to your question is to taper over to Valium (Diazepam) as a sort of "Base-Line", and go from there. Again, as you probably already know, Valium has a much longer Half-Life than Etizolam (Etizolam Half-Life = 6 hours?), and if you can get yourself stabilized on the lowest possible dosage of Valium, you may have some very successful options.
I'm not a Doctor, or a Pharmacist, although I do have a fair amount of knowledge, and Personal Experience, with Benzodiazepines. Still, like I'm sure you've heard many times, "Everybody is different.", and any answers or suggestions I give may be subjective.
There a many other members on this site who are more than "just a little knowledgeable" on this subject as well.
Take Care.
R.
It sounds like you're on the right track by looking for a "longer acting" benzodiazepine, if you are attempting to help ease the withdrawal symptoms associated with stopping Etizolam. (Note: Etizolam is, as you might already be aware, is a Benzodiazepine Analog. Without getting into all of the Pharmacology involved, it differs somewhat from being strictly a Benzodiazepine, although it may be used for some of the same symptoms of Anxiety and/or Panic Disorders, Etc.)
Before attempting to give you what might be any "half-baked" answers or suggestions, it might help to know if you're doing this under any kind of medical supervision, your dosage, how long you've been on the Etizolam, your weight (?), what you have readily available to take for these withdrawal symptoms, etc.
My "Gut Reaction" to your question is to taper over to Valium (Diazepam) as a sort of "Base-Line", and go from there. Again, as you probably already know, Valium has a much longer Half-Life than Etizolam (Etizolam Half-Life = 6 hours?), and if you can get yourself stabilized on the lowest possible dosage of Valium, you may have some very successful options.
I'm not a Doctor, or a Pharmacist, although I do have a fair amount of knowledge, and Personal Experience, with Benzodiazepines. Still, like I'm sure you've heard many times, "Everybody is different.", and any answers or suggestions I give may be subjective.
There a many other members on this site who are more than "just a little knowledgeable" on this subject as well.
Take Care.
R.
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Clomethiazole has a *very* narrow dosage range, i.e. it is easily lethal in an overdose. It is used almost exclusively for treating alcohol withdrawal symptoms in an in-patient setting, under close medical supervision. I would *strongly* recommend against using it at home.
In general, the most common way to do a "home-taper" from benzodiazepines seems to be to use a solution of diclazepam, gradually reducing the dose by fractions of a miligram. Diclazepam is very similar to diazepam in terms of half-life and effects, except it is roughly ten times as potent. Basically, diazepam/diclazepam are useful for this purpose because they have very long bi-phasic half-lives - the drug provides rapid anti-anxiety effect when ingested, but quickly gets absorbed into the body's fatty tissue, from where it is released relatively slowly. This means that by using it on a regular basis, you can build up a relatively constant plasma level, as opposed to the ups and downs of a short-half-life benzo/thieno like alprazolam or etizolam.
There is a benzo tapering guide called the "Ashton Manual" that a lot of people seem to swear by. While the original Ashton manual uses diazepam, you could presumably substitute diclazepam if you divide the recommended doses by a factor of ten.
That said, do be careful. Remember, even benzos with a long half-life have an extremely high abuse potential. Make a taper plan, and use every last ounce of willpower to stick to it.
In general, the most common way to do a "home-taper" from benzodiazepines seems to be to use a solution of diclazepam, gradually reducing the dose by fractions of a miligram. Diclazepam is very similar to diazepam in terms of half-life and effects, except it is roughly ten times as potent. Basically, diazepam/diclazepam are useful for this purpose because they have very long bi-phasic half-lives - the drug provides rapid anti-anxiety effect when ingested, but quickly gets absorbed into the body's fatty tissue, from where it is released relatively slowly. This means that by using it on a regular basis, you can build up a relatively constant plasma level, as opposed to the ups and downs of a short-half-life benzo/thieno like alprazolam or etizolam.
There is a benzo tapering guide called the "Ashton Manual" that a lot of people seem to swear by. While the original Ashton manual uses diazepam, you could presumably substitute diclazepam if you divide the recommended doses by a factor of ten.
That said, do be careful. Remember, even benzos with a long half-life have an extremely high abuse potential. Make a taper plan, and use every last ounce of willpower to stick to it.
Limpet_Chicken
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I have quite a lot of experience with chlormethiazole, it is the drug I use for both seizure prophylaxis and for treating them when the do occur.
It isn't long acting, more intermediate in duration, duration of effect from a single dose is perhaps six to seven hours. It is notable for its very rapid onset. Don't drink alcohol with this one, two reasons-one, it is much more like a barbiturate than a benzo, it binds to the barbiturate binding site on the GABAa ion channel subunit complex and whilst it is chemically unique, being a vitamin B1 derivative with some heavy modifications (In fact, its a two step synthesis from vitamin B1, if you don't purification steps, I've done it before and it isn't difficult, although there is a toxic byproduct created during the first step which must be removed), and the other reason is that it also inhibits alcohol dehydrogenase, causing alcohol levels to build up in the body to much higher than typical levels if alcohol is consumed which causes alcohol to drastically potentiate the chlormethiazole and the chloremethiazole to drastically potentiate the alcohol. Not a good combination with a drug that acts like a GABAergic depressant of the barbiturate type.
Capsules contain 192mg each, try 2-3 to begin with, and increase slowly. Also don't go on prolonged benders at sub-dangerous doses for an extended time period, because it can be metabolized to some sort of sulfurous metabolite, which stinks something hideous, and will carry for 100s of feet downwind, and send people running for the hills. Whatever it is, its godawful foul and damn potent as a stinker, but if you don't binge on it for prolonged time periods it won't have the chance to build up to levels which can stink.
If you do though and it does? it'll be coming out of every last little part of you for at least a week, sweat, piss, shit, saliva, you'll taste it, it'll be in your tear fluid, it'll even be coming out of your nasal fluid, and my fucking god is it ever vile. Quite horrific stuff, that byproduct, I've smelled worse, but never outside the context of working in my chemistry lab.
Chlormethiazole packs a fuck of a punch, and its one of the last of those oldschool downers that hasn't been taken off the market due to abuse potential, perhaps because of its specific advantages in treating alcohol withdrawal in an inpatient setting, although it has a LOT of abuse potential. Real good ol' days era wall-banger of a downer, the likes of which in too many cases have gone extinct. This stuff is still around thankfully, I have a script for it, and its great stuff.
It isn't long acting, more intermediate in duration, duration of effect from a single dose is perhaps six to seven hours. It is notable for its very rapid onset. Don't drink alcohol with this one, two reasons-one, it is much more like a barbiturate than a benzo, it binds to the barbiturate binding site on the GABAa ion channel subunit complex and whilst it is chemically unique, being a vitamin B1 derivative with some heavy modifications (In fact, its a two step synthesis from vitamin B1, if you don't purification steps, I've done it before and it isn't difficult, although there is a toxic byproduct created during the first step which must be removed), and the other reason is that it also inhibits alcohol dehydrogenase, causing alcohol levels to build up in the body to much higher than typical levels if alcohol is consumed which causes alcohol to drastically potentiate the chlormethiazole and the chloremethiazole to drastically potentiate the alcohol. Not a good combination with a drug that acts like a GABAergic depressant of the barbiturate type.
Capsules contain 192mg each, try 2-3 to begin with, and increase slowly. Also don't go on prolonged benders at sub-dangerous doses for an extended time period, because it can be metabolized to some sort of sulfurous metabolite, which stinks something hideous, and will carry for 100s of feet downwind, and send people running for the hills. Whatever it is, its godawful foul and damn potent as a stinker, but if you don't binge on it for prolonged time periods it won't have the chance to build up to levels which can stink.
If you do though and it does? it'll be coming out of every last little part of you for at least a week, sweat, piss, shit, saliva, you'll taste it, it'll be in your tear fluid, it'll even be coming out of your nasal fluid, and my fucking god is it ever vile. Quite horrific stuff, that byproduct, I've smelled worse, but never outside the context of working in my chemistry lab.
Chlormethiazole packs a fuck of a punch, and its one of the last of those oldschool downers that hasn't been taken off the market due to abuse potential, perhaps because of its specific advantages in treating alcohol withdrawal in an inpatient setting, although it has a LOT of abuse potential. Real good ol' days era wall-banger of a downer, the likes of which in too many cases have gone extinct. This stuff is still around thankfully, I have a script for it, and its great stuff.
Thomas29
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From what I have Read about Diclazepam is that it is essentially useless with A High Tolerance And I have not tried it myself but most Posts I have Read all say that it does Not feel anything Like Valium But even if it does have A Long half-life I have not been able to find A reliable Vendor for Diclazepam since nobody Really wants to Buy it I assume I have No idea.
Thomas29
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The only type of RC Benzo I have come across And Read about would be NorFlurazepam which I have used Flurazepam prescribed for sleep before and the long half-life worked great for weaning down from higher doses of xanax.... UNFORTUNATELY it is like LITERALLY the ONLY RC I can't find A reliable Source for it least not one I can Trust confidently And I don't wanna waste my money but that seems like it is the only way I will be able to find out damnit.
Plus Nordazepam which I have just Read about But I can't find A Reliable Source for it either. I use to have A Great source for RC's let's just say it was A Very OFFICIAL Website before it just one day after like 7 years perfect service and just Vanished over night.
Plus Nordazepam which I have just Read about But I can't find A Reliable Source for it either. I use to have A Great source for RC's let's just say it was A Very OFFICIAL Website before it just one day after like 7 years perfect service and just Vanished over night.
Limpet_Chicken
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Chlormethiazole can be used safely enough at home, just as long as it is treated with the due respect. Capsules are 192mg each, and intended to be used in replacement of, not along with the booze, just keep in mind to never mix it with depressants. I do take it alongside opioids, but only in clinical doses for seizure control, and I've been opioid tolerant longterm. Even then, it packs a fuck of a punch. Bugger about with it stupidly or carelessly and the above poster's warnings about it showing no tolerance for fuckabouts, is true. But it does do what its meant to do when used as such, and unlike benzos, you get somewhat of an indication of when its going to start taking effect, at least with the capsules, or with the freebase orally, I've never taken the edisylate syrup, no idea what thats like, other than as a general idea of the effects of the drug, its a bugger to salt.
The onset is extremely rapid, once the capsules break, or if you can manage to get past the funky taste and stick the base in some cold drink (nonalcoholic, I mean), kinda how oral ether is used, and toss it back. Stuff hits about as fast IMO as a dose of spirit liquor, in terms of time until onset, minutes from when its actually released if its in capsule form, so its somewhat easier than with benzos to feel one's way to the ideal dose (which should, if using for a taper, stop at the minimum dose required to hold one, and dosing go down slowly over a week or just over, if that isn't too fast.)
Be aware, if tolerance to the other GABAergic was high, that there is one rather unfortunate side effect, that appears to be cumulative over short, sustained high dose intake, and that is most probably a facet of sulfur chemistry all too frequent. What do most people associate with fire and brimstone? well it smells worse than anything they are likely to have 'down there'. Like the devil himself sharted, decided it was too much pollution to add to hell, and had it piped into a donald trump speech, it really is quite foul. And it STINKS, whatever this metabolite is, and it will come out in everything. Its like the sulfur equivalent of tellurium breath, well, at least what I've read about the latter. Never had the experience and never want to, but whatever it is, A-smells bad enough to send people turning and running from 100 meters off in open outside air, and B-will follow you to the ends of the earth, coming out in saliva, piss, sweat, nasal fluid (just where you want something mercaptan-esque to make a nest for the next week or so), and leave traces on most anything you touch that can't be wiped down with bleach or in the case of glassware fouled by overheating the stuff, given a chromic acid bath. Whatever it is, it doesn't show with low dose continual (in my case, 192mg 3xdaily, for years, used for seizure control) use. But if used say, for a high dose taper, or really hit hard recreationally, oh damn, that stink is like the devil's own ghost when it comes out to haunt you. I reckon the only way to get rid of it, bar burying a body in a lake, would be to kill the host and burn the remains.
The onset is extremely rapid, once the capsules break, or if you can manage to get past the funky taste and stick the base in some cold drink (nonalcoholic, I mean), kinda how oral ether is used, and toss it back. Stuff hits about as fast IMO as a dose of spirit liquor, in terms of time until onset, minutes from when its actually released if its in capsule form, so its somewhat easier than with benzos to feel one's way to the ideal dose (which should, if using for a taper, stop at the minimum dose required to hold one, and dosing go down slowly over a week or just over, if that isn't too fast.)
Be aware, if tolerance to the other GABAergic was high, that there is one rather unfortunate side effect, that appears to be cumulative over short, sustained high dose intake, and that is most probably a facet of sulfur chemistry all too frequent. What do most people associate with fire and brimstone? well it smells worse than anything they are likely to have 'down there'. Like the devil himself sharted, decided it was too much pollution to add to hell, and had it piped into a donald trump speech, it really is quite foul. And it STINKS, whatever this metabolite is, and it will come out in everything. Its like the sulfur equivalent of tellurium breath, well, at least what I've read about the latter. Never had the experience and never want to, but whatever it is, A-smells bad enough to send people turning and running from 100 meters off in open outside air, and B-will follow you to the ends of the earth, coming out in saliva, piss, sweat, nasal fluid (just where you want something mercaptan-esque to make a nest for the next week or so), and leave traces on most anything you touch that can't be wiped down with bleach or in the case of glassware fouled by overheating the stuff, given a chromic acid bath. Whatever it is, it doesn't show with low dose continual (in my case, 192mg 3xdaily, for years, used for seizure control) use. But if used say, for a high dose taper, or really hit hard recreationally, oh damn, that stink is like the devil's own ghost when it comes out to haunt you. I reckon the only way to get rid of it, bar burying a body in a lake, would be to kill the host and burn the remains.
Limpet_Chicken
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Chlormethiazole can be used safely enough at home, just as long as it is treated with the due respect. Capsules are 192mg each, and intended to be used in replacement of, not along with the booze, just keep in mind to never mix it with depressants. I do take it alongside opioids, but only in clinical doses for seizure control, and I've been opioid tolerant longterm. Even then, it packs a fuck of a punch. Bugger about with it stupidly or carelessly and the above poster's warnings about it showing no tolerance for fuckabouts, is true. But it does do what its meant to do when used as such, and unlike benzos, you get somewhat of an indication of when its going to start taking effect, at least with the capsules, or with the freebase orally, I've never taken the edisylate syrup, no idea what thats like, other than as a general idea of the effects of the drug, its a bugger to salt, so I just didn't bother, afterall, if the freebase was good enough for big pharma, good enough knocking it up from vitamin B1, once the toxopyrimidine byproduct of a cleavage reaction is disposed of safely. Why salt something ornery that didn't want to be salted, and waste resources when the original was IMO, better than the edisylate, the capsules here aren't IMO as good anymore, they used to contain the freebase, and now its the ethanedisulfonate salt (edisylate), doesn't seem as rapid acting as it used to be, although its still damn fast.
Oh I meant to add, it might just be me, but when used in therapeutic dosages, even though I've used it daily for years, there have been breaks of a few days here and there, and with its short half life, I'd expect a rapid withdrawal if it was going to happen, indeed I can tell when my seizure coverage lowers during sleep, given I'm not actively taking it when asleep, but thats just the unmasking of the problem it is being taken to treat, makes sense one would have more seizures if not taking antiseizure meds at the time, n? I'd know GABAergic withdrawal if I met with it, either from barbiturate-like or benzo-like GABAa agonists and chlormethiazole has inflicted nothing of the kind. Works better than anything else I've ever tried too for dealing with an incipient seizure, if its at the point of an aura, or myoclonic twitches, but can either manage to grab the bottle before it goes off the deep end or becomes atonic, or else if there's someone there that can recognize, realize if I'm signing for something and can't speak (I speak ASL as a second language and a few very basic signs my old man would get, or else if not, just try to knock something over and get attention focused on the fact I can't do the job myself.)
Typically takes just minutes to bring me out of even a pretty bad one, after feeling the gelcaps burst open.
Oh I meant to add, it might just be me, but when used in therapeutic dosages, even though I've used it daily for years, there have been breaks of a few days here and there, and with its short half life, I'd expect a rapid withdrawal if it was going to happen, indeed I can tell when my seizure coverage lowers during sleep, given I'm not actively taking it when asleep, but thats just the unmasking of the problem it is being taken to treat, makes sense one would have more seizures if not taking antiseizure meds at the time, n? I'd know GABAergic withdrawal if I met with it, either from barbiturate-like or benzo-like GABAa agonists and chlormethiazole has inflicted nothing of the kind. Works better than anything else I've ever tried too for dealing with an incipient seizure, if its at the point of an aura, or myoclonic twitches, but can either manage to grab the bottle before it goes off the deep end or becomes atonic, or else if there's someone there that can recognize, realize if I'm signing for something and can't speak (I speak ASL as a second language and a few very basic signs my old man would get, or else if not, just try to knock something over and get attention focused on the fact I can't do the job myself.)
Typically takes just minutes to bring me out of even a pretty bad one, after feeling the gelcaps burst open.
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Thomas29
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How High of A Dose And Or how often would it take for the nasty Side-Effects of the Sulphur Bodily Odor Smell take for u personally?
What is A Safe Dose of Clomethaizole I Read the Capsules are 197MG 1-2 before bed does that mean I can make my own 200MG Capsules And take 1 Or 2 at A time without it causing any unwanted problems?
Keep in mind to consider My MAJORLY High Benzo Tolerance into Account.
What is A Safe Dose of Clomethaizole I Read the Capsules are 197MG 1-2 before bed does that mean I can make my own 200MG Capsules And take 1 Or 2 at A time without it causing any unwanted problems?
Keep in mind to consider My MAJORLY High Benzo Tolerance into Account.
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