I believe I saw a discussion on this forum that stated there was no such thing as carfentanyl in powder form. I couldn't locate that thread tho. Can anyone here in the "big brains" forum confirm or deny that? If there is no powder form, can you tell me why, when other analogs come in powder form?
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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand
carfent powder?
- Thread starter AsaKite
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Tbh I don’t know if it exists in a powder form but given the extreme potency of the drug it’s pretty safe to assume that no body has the needed scale to accurately measure doses. That may be why it’s seen in other forms with easier means of splitting it up
Branggen
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The only way I can imagine any substance in the universe could possibly never be a powder was if it was either a liquid or a gas right, and even then it could be a powder at the right temperature? Any solid should be able to be crushed into 'powder' no? Assuming you have the strength to break the atoms/molecules from each other
draculic acid69
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I
Form would be too risky which is why
it'll usually be found as liquid.
It exists in powder form but any attempt to handle this is powder
Form would be too risky which is why
it'll usually be found as liquid.
See, that was my thinking too, but I read the replies in that thread and no one was telling the dude he was wrong, which is what had me scratching my head. Then I saw some advertised and wondered if the OP was mistaken or if the ad was a scam.
sekio
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Most alkaloids in salt form are solids, usually crystalline. Carfentanil is indeed a solid in its pure form as a free base, but the oxalate and the citrate are known. Carfentanil citrate is the active component of Wildnil and is what I'd expect to be going around on the street (carfentanil free base is not very water soluble, c.f. fentanyl - it's sold as citrate salt and not the free base for the same reason)
Melting point: 189.5 ºC (oxalate salt; van Daele et al., 1976). 152.2 ºC (citrate salt; van Daele et al., 1976). The free base I don't have a figure for but is probably around 80-120C.
I agree, it's safest to handle carfentanil (or other fentanyl analogues) as liquid solutions of known concentration. It's too hard to reliably dilute a solid into another solid, so making a solution is a surefire way to ensure everything is equally distributed. I would even go so far as to say that it removes a large amount of the risk of using such drugs if you simply know what dose you're actually ingesting.
Handling carfentanil as a 250 ug/mL: or something solution would be almost safe enough to use. I would be careful to strudy the stability of such solutions beforehand - carfent has a methyl ester group that could be hydrolysed which would likely reduce the potency greatly. The "solution" (heh) would be making a dilution in e.g. ethyl alcohol.
Melting point: 189.5 ºC (oxalate salt; van Daele et al., 1976). 152.2 ºC (citrate salt; van Daele et al., 1976). The free base I don't have a figure for but is probably around 80-120C.
I agree, it's safest to handle carfentanil (or other fentanyl analogues) as liquid solutions of known concentration. It's too hard to reliably dilute a solid into another solid, so making a solution is a surefire way to ensure everything is equally distributed. I would even go so far as to say that it removes a large amount of the risk of using such drugs if you simply know what dose you're actually ingesting.
Handling carfentanil as a 250 ug/mL: or something solution would be almost safe enough to use. I would be careful to strudy the stability of such solutions beforehand - carfent has a methyl ester group that could be hydrolysed which would likely reduce the potency greatly. The "solution" (heh) would be making a dilution in e.g. ethyl alcohol.
I only understood about half that but it sounds like youre saying I could dissolve the powder in a saline solution to snort it, which is what I normally do with any new opi so I can better control dosing. Is that correct? Could you explain (like Im a sixth grader) what would greatly reduce potency in that scenario?
sekio
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I'm hoping you don't actually have a big pile of carfentail powder, that's a big risk to handle.
What I would do is glove up, goggles, dust mask, and use a milligram scale to weigh out whatever, then dilute it into a LARGE volume of saline. Afterwards wipe everything down with a bleach soaked rag. Discard PPE and soak it in bleach too.
Or, throw it down the toilet... carfentanyl is unreasonably toxic and has caused many overdoses, even from as little as 1mg of drug.
Anyway, the comment about carfent possibly breaking down in water: drugs that contain an ester functionality can react with water to degrade (c.f. heroin, cocaine). It happens at different rates depending on all sorts of things. Carfentanyl could, in theory, break down this way, but I would expect it to do so very slowly. That is, it's not something to be concerned about unless you are planning to store carfentanyl solutions for a long time.
What I would do is glove up, goggles, dust mask, and use a milligram scale to weigh out whatever, then dilute it into a LARGE volume of saline. Afterwards wipe everything down with a bleach soaked rag. Discard PPE and soak it in bleach too.
Or, throw it down the toilet... carfentanyl is unreasonably toxic and has caused many overdoses, even from as little as 1mg of drug.
Anyway, the comment about carfent possibly breaking down in water: drugs that contain an ester functionality can react with water to degrade (c.f. heroin, cocaine). It happens at different rates depending on all sorts of things. Carfentanyl could, in theory, break down this way, but I would expect it to do so very slowly. That is, it's not something to be concerned about unless you are planning to store carfentanyl solutions for a long time.